The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast

New Years Resolution Pod! Fitness and Old Formats with Jay Hornung

January 19, 2022 Brent Halliburton Season 1 Episode 72
The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast
New Years Resolution Pod! Fitness and Old Formats with Jay Hornung
Transcript
Mike:

Yeah. It's been a long time since I've seen any Pokemon person. I mean, it's crazy.

Brent:

I was thinking about that the other day. it's literally been two years.

Mike:

Yeah.

Brit:

Yeah. Just about them, like another month. And it will be exactly like the Collinsville, February, 2020 was the last regionals I was at. I don't remember if I played anything smaller afterwards, but.

Brent:

I think that might've been my last one as well.

Mike:

Yeah. Brent, you're one of the shortlist of Pokemon people I've seen since then.

Brent:

That's right. That's right. But but yeah, there's, there's just so many people that I'm like, oh yeah, no, I haven't, I haven't actually seen them. I mean, I feel like, and this is somewhat topical to the conversation. I'm pretty sure I won't recognize Danielle DaVita, like you've got a complete body transformation.

Mike:

Yeah, that's true.

Brent:

he is totally changed himself completely. He's like a different person.

Brit:

And this'll duty you be here, you just start and then suddenly you're motivated to change your whole life. Not just in the gym.

Brent:

I mean, it's really, it's really quite impressive actually.

Brit:

I mean, yeah, just the way it correlates to you know, positive other changes in mental health too. It's hard to knock, you don't have to be a professional bodybuilder to get something out of like exercise and fitness, things like that. And that's usually like, just how it's stratified. Like it's like, I don't want to get big. What's the point? It's like, don't worry about it. You don't, you don't have to do any of that. Like it's this other stuff will make all the good stuff happen, not the brain chemicals and so forth.

Jay:

Like Justin Sanchez back in, I guess more my day, but he did same thing. I think lost a hundred pounds

Brit:

Yeah,

Jay:

complete nine day before.

Brit:

he's still, he's still at it too. I think he's sort of just not a part of the game anymore. Unfortunately he used to be in like a group chat that is, I'm still active in and he's just not in it anymore. But I think he still works out and like, as on the collecting side of things, but yeah, it's not not playing card games as far as I know.

Jay:

It just gets so much more challenging as you get older and you got more and more stuff going on with everything, but I wish I could make it to more regionals than I have in the past.

Brent:

Welcome to the Trashalanche. It's everybody's favorite pod, our instructions by Chris Webby Webster's laboratory. Every once in a while, I tried to mention that on the pod just to shout them out and recognize that he seems like a cool guy, because he has songs about Pokemon. Attendance is 133% today. We get the whole crew. Plus we have Jay Hornung who is on here to talk about our amazing new year's resolution podcast, where we're going to help you think about your fitness, which is super important. I'm probably too old to say it like that. We're sponsored by channel fireball. I always say that there is a really nice article about bringing more women into the magic community recently, how you, you wrote it on January 7th, if you want to go dig around for it. It's always good to contemplate these things and the problems that we face. So a really, really good article. I encourage everybody to go read it. Channel fireball, they help pay for the pot. We appreciate them. No new five star reviews. You should leave a review. If you leave a review, we will read it on the pod. Even if it's not five stars, we would still read it. We would just move just a think slightly less of you, but that's okay. Yeah. You felt less, slightly less of us. That's a very reasonable alright guys, let's jump right in. We want to do a special, special guest pod to talk about fitness in the context of new year's resolutions, it's a timely, timely pod. People are like, you know, getting their two month gym membership and they're like, go, go, go. So we thought we should talk about stuff like that. Guys, I made a lot of notes, but we should start by saying Jay, why don't you tell everybody about. if we don't do the J morning intro, then we wanted done it, right?

Jay:

Yeah. So I I played the game back in the day from about 2004 to 2013. And then I've been working out for gosh, probably 15, 16 years now. So it's been awesome to see some crossover between people in the game that play in the fitness community and made a lot of friends doing that. So.

Mike:

Yeah. you're J you're so modest. I.

Brent:

that

Brit:

say. Any, any accomplishments or anything?

Brent:

you want to jump in there? Come

Mike:

I think, well, it's interesting because I think if people that, you know, have just gotten into the game in the last even, I don't know, five years or so, they might not know really who you are, Jay, but Jay is like one of the top players to ever play the game. And so just, just take listeners, take that in like Jay, how many times did you top four nationals and worlds?

Jay:

Oh, do you want like an introduction like

Brent:

Yeah.

Mike:

We don't need like the, everything that you've done cause there's too much to list, but what are like some of your highlights?

Brent:

Yeah.

Jay:

I would say I taught Ford world's twice a second and nationals third at nationals. And that's probably the highlights, some, you know, regional states, city accomplishments.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we, we, we gotta establish your credibility, you know?

Brit:

I think like maybe one thing too, a lot of times, like, even when we have like different kinds of top player, that's like sort of like gravitate towards like different decks or different sort of like consistency preferences. Like, I don't want to say play style. That, that sounded okay. And like, for me, at least, you know, back when I was around this time, like Jay was just like, I don't know, like toward is probably who I would compare him to just in that, like, his lists were just so consistent. Like if you look at towards like any IC lists, it just was like four Tapu. Lele four of everything. And that's just generally what I would address. To the way that Jay would play is like, that is just like, like no tricks. No, frails just like consistency and a deck. That's going to like, get the job done. And so there's was just like had the state's runs with electric, like the city marathon run with blast toys, trying to think other sort of like J lists. I know pretty well, a big basics, like just all over the place. Just like all sorts of just like very, very simple, but like brutally consistent lists. And I don't, I don't know if that's fair day. Maybe you would disagree, maybe your own sort of you would describe yourself differently in terms of like play styles and decks, but like me as a player, especially like when I was like coming up, like at the time, like that was just always like, I wish I could do. Play Jay's decks. Like if, if Jadas could hand me his list, like the day before the tournament, like no questions asked, I would probably do it at every tournament. That was just like how I would frame the kind of player you were in the like 20, 10 to 2013 era. Something like that.

Jay:

No that's fair. And that, that toward analogy was thank you. That's a compliment to me, a huge compliment to me, but no, I just, I, I could, I could stand losing, like, you know, if we played a game and you beat me, Hey, I get that. I just could not stand sitting there, drop passing for five turns, then losing a game. So a lot of my lists, I played super consistently and probably two consistently in some points there's probably decks and lists. I should check out more, but I just, I just didn't want to draw, pass for five turns or lose before I even got to play a game, especially some of those early areas. I felt like if you had a good, consistent deck, you had a greater chance of winning the game. If you were playing something that was overly tact for a certain format or certain matchup.

Mike:

I feel like that that was especially true for when me and you first started like 2004 to like 2006, seven. Like, it was just like, if we set up, we could beat, we could beat most people at that time. The game has definitely gotten harder since then. Jay, do you have a, like a, a favorite deck or two decks that you've played in your career?

Jay:

Yeah. Gardevoir just every single, you know, Gardevoir deck and it, I won't say like I was, I always felt like I was a, a list behind on the Gardevoir, like when I played guard war worlds in oh eight Jason's list was much better than mine when I played in 2010. The prams list was much better than mine, but it was always just a favorite deck of mine once again, just because the deck had so many different options and it just felt like. When you were playing games, if you had options, especially like you're talking about in some of those earlier years, if you had options and you gave, you ruled out play your opponent. And I feel like the philosophy for deck building is almost changed from nowadays to how it was back in the day.

Mike:

Did you play guard youth? So you played guardian bolt. Oh eight in 2010 worlds.

Jay:

Yeah. I played at 2008 and 2010. It was just it, the deck was so good. I just loved it.

Mike:

Yeah, I agree. And I feel like recently, or recently in the last few years you did like a big analysis of Gardevoir, right? Was it a six prize article was videos? What was it. What am I

Jay:

Yeah. So I did. So basically from 2010, which I will say, I think Gardevoir is if not the best deck, one of the best decks. And I basically took prams lists. I tweaked it a little bit. And some somebody had copied my deck and ended up winning a pretty large tournament at nationals. They had for 2010 with it. And I think there was two or three Gardevoir wars in the top eight for that. And all of them were within a couple of cards that, the list that I built which ones, again, 60% of it was prams. 40% of it was mine. I don't want to call it my list when it was a lot of prams insights, but I wrote a long article on it, just one of my favorite decks of all time. And like I said, I think outside of the dialogue, I think almost every single matchup in 2010 is really favorable for it.

Brent:

Yeah. I always felt like if you read a article about throwback formats on six prizes Jay Bradley wrote that, like, and I recognize you're J Hornung on Twitter. People, you should go follow him. Hopefully he'll get lots of followers and be like, oh my God, I had no idea. So many people on the Trashalanche, but you're you're still active in like snowboarding, temple and stuff like that. Like giving people advice on old formats, right.

Jay:

Well, I am. And to be honest with you too, like I made so many friends in this game and I still talk to people on Facebook and Twitter that I met almost 20 years ago now. So I think for me, that's one of the biggest things of the community. Just how close knit everybody still is on everything. So I talked to Jason Kaczynski probably a couple of times a week. So.

Brent:

Pokemon Fucking months ago, everybody loves.

Brit:

mean, I let's say maybe a good segue for a question that I have. And so like J a lot of times with like, you know, older players, especially players, like you are so, so good during their time. And then, you know, as time passes, you haven't, you know, kept playing. And I'm curious as to, I know that you sort of express, maybe some of it's like time-related, it's not being able to sort of like grind, qualify for worlds as the system changed, but do you, I'm curious if you have any, like, Like hot takes, takes in general on just like, is the game bad now? Is it, is it fine? Like what did you have any, do you keep up? Do you know what, like current cards do, I guess that might be a good place to start, but yeah, I'm just like every, you know, Jason, you know, Jason is a good example too, because he sort of like, doesn't, can't enjoy the like current game anymore. He thinks it's sort of like jumped the shark in 2016 or something to that effect. And I'm just curious, were you ever, were you sort of fallen in, in that kind of discussion?

Jay:

So I don't fully like the direction of the game, but I feel like there was a lot of necessary things that needed to happen that the game has done. You know, in 2006 is a great example where I feel the game is far more approachable now to new players than it was in like 2006. And a very common deck in 2006 is new lock or new trick or a lot of different decks that just did not allow your opponent to play the game, I guess, without going into too much detail. And you would have people that if you did not know how to play against certain matchups or how to play. You are not going to have a fun time playing the game. And I think nowadays the game is definitely different and I think they've tried to make it a lot more approachable to new people while also trying to keep the skill level as high as possible. I think the biggest difference for me is I feel like in to that, like the early years, like I will say up until like 2010, 2011, there was a huge emphasis put on deck building. And I, to be clear, this is my old player, old school, like point of view on it. So as I know, a lot of you guys play nowadays, you might have a different point of view, but I feel like deck building, like being a good deck builder was a major part of being successful in the early years. And I think in more modern times, you definitely see that building being important. But I also feel like you can, if you're a bad deck builder, I think it's easier to get by now than it might've been in like 2005, 2006, 2007. But yeah, the direction of the game. I, I liked those early years and that's probably why I, I played in those. I haven't played in more recent years, but I just feel like the direction of the game is so different. The power creep is just so crazy. And I feel like the match-ups while are maybe more approachable now or easier to learn, I don't feel like they're necessary necessarily. Like as in depth of like they were back in the day, but once again, to be fair, this could be like, you know, me being just old and saying that, you know, the music back in my day was so much better than modern music. Everyone's going to have different thoughts and different opinions with it. I play on PTCGO every now and then, and the game is good. The game is fun. It just doesn't have the same feel that it did back in the day. At least to me.

Brit:

No. Yeah. I mean, I have to think. I, and presumably we agree with almost all of that. Like I, in my own sort of introspection, I I'm always, I can never quite parse, like what's nostalgia and what's wrong. Or like in the, in the line of nostalgia, like what's possibly wrong. Like, if that makes sense. But I, like, I really do think if you like boiled it down to just like the intricacies of match-ups and things like that, like, it is definitely a different game, but your, your point about accessibility is, is definitely a very good point. Like, yeah. Like I, I think we maybe talked about this before, but like take like a Eternatus like last year, like it's probably not worth teaching someone like in the current format, but I like feel like. Teach someone the game of Pokemon. And then about 30 minutes later, give them like a Eternatus and they would like probably be okay, like good enough to go like three and six, four and five at a regional, like, something like that. And that's just. A lot of, especially in like the SPR and things like that. There's just so many, like little nuances to it. And I, I do think in general, like that, like that each and every matchup has like a Path to win. Like doesn't really seem to exist anymore. Like there's always, there's always the chance that your opponent bricks or has a bad starting hand and like share your, you know, your, your grass deck will beat the fire deck when that happens. But like generally there aren't, and that's sort of what you were saying about like 2006 and stuff too. It was just the, it's like the singular terms that you have to know what to do and things like that. And like, those moments just don't seem to exist anymore. Like just thinking of all sorts of. Like tailcoat on AMBA Palm G to the right Pokemon, just little tiny things like that. Could ch could turn a bad matchup into a good one. And those just especially, and especially too, like with the one-on-one texts, the like one of texts just don't exist anymore. And that's sort of to kind of a big part of what we're building like used to be, or at least like that was, you know, talked about like, oh, how do we fit? Like thus more into this deck or how do we fit? You know, just like the random stage twos could just be viable in any given deck, you know, given the right deck construction. And it seems like now, like, and I we've talked about this a lot on the podcast before it's like, like the sets, the set lists themselves. So like, what are like making the deck list. It's just like, you know, chilling rains. It's like, here's your psychic Pokemon. And then like, you know, your water Pokemon. And then he had just builds from there and like darkness. Darkness a blaze wasn't the Eternatus center and so forth. I it's just a little more cinematic in the way the cards are printed. Like you, you see the archetypes from a long ways away. Whereas before there was like, like a little nuance to it.

Jay:

I think back in the day, there was a lot more, I don't want to say like maybe hidden decks is a good term, but like for example, dark train Atari electrode DX is probably the best deck in 2006. And I don't think people recognize that in 2006, it wasn't until like years later, do people realize how dominant that deck is? And I feel like in today's format, like you said, the decks, I guess, smack you in the face a little bit more. I guess the other question, let me ask you since, you know, the play during this time is I feel like back in the day, I'll see like Jason Kaczynski misplay and I'll see like Alex Presario misplay when they're playing like 2006, 2007, 2008 games. And I feel like miss playing is less common among the top players nowadays than it was back in those areas. Is that a fair enough?

Mike:

Hmm.

Brit:

I'm not sure.

Mike:

That's a really interesting question.

Brent:

My gut tells me, you, you definitely see them. Misplay maybe they misplayed a lower probability, but like that might like, it might be a function of just like they play they. And so it's easier to play more games. Like they played more games that are like highly visible. Right? I mean, those doulas as little as probably, I, I think of him as like maybe the best player and he's literally streaming for like five hours every day. So like you see a misplay bay, it's easy.

Brit:

I was almost going to use that to sort of sit back up Jay's point in the sense of like, I mean, we don't really have professionals in the same sense that like east other e-sports games, even other card games have. But there is, of course, like the content creators and the people who do make a living doing sort of a variety of things all through the Pokemon card game. And I would think like that would be a good reason for why people, the top players misplay less now. Cause you've got people like Azule Andrew Mahoney and like towards the stream very consistently. And like, I mean, that's like in something like Hearthstone, like you can't compete with someone who plays for 16 hours, 14 hours every single day. And so. Does Azule in like 20, 22, 20, 21, like play more than Jason did back in the day, I would guess. Yes. Like, is, are they the same quality of games? Probably not, but just the sheer sort of like redundancy playing again and again, and again, five hours a day, six hours a day, whatever their stream schedule might be. And like maybe, maybe that's part of it. But I do think definitely like the nuances of it, there are definitely like tiny, tiny things and the older formats, like, I, I, you know, this is one of the harder things about playing a dialogue. That's like, is this the turn that I stopped? Definitely things like that. And like, it might just be one extra turn of 10 more damage. And that might might've been what made her, made her, broke your whole entire game. And so I think both, both, both could be true.

Brent:

Yeah. I mean, I guess when you say like, do they make less, misplays it either like one or two things would be true. Either players are like more skillful or robotic or something, or the game is structurally it's more difficult for you to play. The second is almost certainly true. The first is like, Hey, I am probably true.

Jay:

No, that's just good points. I guess that was just my question, because it just seems way different to me that sometimes, like we were talking about with so many different texts, defendants, so many different decks, that the number of options you might have over the course of a turn seems different. And like I said, once again, this is me being an old guy, an old player kind of showing my viewpoint of it. But you know, where today the matchup seem more, I don't want to say, I don't know if linear is the right plan, but like you kind of go in, you've got your strategy. And then your hand basically kind of dictates how you play these things out. But like I said, that would be my 2 cents.

Brit:

Yeah. That's how we frame it. A lot of times, it's just like two players see, like playing solitaire against each other, essentially. Like I'm, I'm sequencing over here, you're sequencing over there. And then we like look up like once per game and play the boss and that's about it. But yeah, I mean, I think that's right there. Aren't a lot of, like, there are like to be sure. And, you know, like we, we like, like last year there was a format, we thought it was pretty good. Kind of the, the very end towards the end of the TAC team Pokemon before chilling rains came out, we thought that was like a pretty skill-based format. But like at the same time too, the games themselves were not like particularly dynamic. And I think a lot of that is just like the engine we have now. And again, sort of the classic, you know, that what we cast it against is like the shuffle drought versus search and back in the day, sort of characterize much more by search cards. And now it's just all about, I guess, not shuffle, but just draw supporters in general. Sometimes you just don't draw what you need regardless of sequencing, perfectly ultra, ultra balling correctly and so forth.

Brent:

Yeah. And I think the point that you made earlier, if like, because they're feeding you the archetypes in the set. I mean, if you look at like the top, probably two decks in the format right now, like, you know, you have your choice of which deck you want to play. You can play mew where you hit for 200, every turn until the end of the game, or you could play jolty on, right. You hit for a hundred, a hundred snipe, every turn until the end of the game. Those are the only two attacks you're going to use. Like you just pick which one you like, and like, that's how you're going to play. It's like, nah, that doesn't sound super thought provoking in terms of

Jay:

what I,

Mike:

So the,

Jay:

I loved about Tina. Oh, sorry.

Mike:

oh no, no, no. Sorry. The only thing I'll add is that I feel like the way you have to approach match-ups from a much more macro level. And if you understand like how you're supposed to play a certain mask, The, you know, the details of it are pretty easy to figure out for anyone that's kind of good at the game. But if you don't know how to approach the matchup from a very like metal level, then you're going to lose a lot of match-ups where he's I do feel like obviously there was like macro game plans when we played, but I felt like there was a lot more game to game decision-making like in game, like little details that made a lot bigger of a difference that aren't really as big of a difference. Now, if that makes sense.

Jay:

No, it did definitely make sense. So just like I said, it was just, I always seem to jump into the game app every about, maybe once a year. I always try to make it to Jimmy. Ballard's our regionals. I'm up in Wisconsin and every single year, it's always a little bit of a even year to year. The game changes so much and it's always a little bit of a learning curve for me to like, jump into it. Like. Fully recognize how much skill is involved in the game and how much of a a learning curve there is with the game. But it just, it just always feels so different than what I was used to in those, you know, 2004 to 2013 with, as we get towards 2012, you know, and, and talking about only two attacks, it was, you know, X ball, a night sphere was all I had to know at nationals and worlds that year. But.

Brent:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, you look back at like Mike's big run last. Uh, You know, he was playing the most nonlinear deck we probably had in the format Let's let you guys ready for the transition to talking about fitness as I'm ready to get through it. I recognize we, we value people's time and I had so many questions, so many

Mike:

do it. Let's do it.

Brent:

All right, guys. So I'm just going to start with like the question when people, I think when most people start their new year's resolution, most of them have a vision of weight loss. With some, like some like kernels of transitioning to like super body type, whatever that might be. Right. So, so I, I feel like it, when I frame the new year's fitness question, like that's where I want to start. So I thought, I thought we should start by talking about diet. Is there like a diet strategy that you're like, that's the optimal stress?

Jay:

Yeah.

Brit:

I mean, there are like, I think like meta strategies in the sense that like calories in calories out is sort of the ultimate dictator and whether you're going to lose weight or not body composition sort of comes after that. But no, I mean, I think in this, this is, I don't know, I'm fairly active in some like Facebook, fitness groups and things like that. And I, I, I get this question almost every single day, not about diets, but just like which workout is best for fat loss or which, which workout plan is best for muscle gain. And it's the same for diets is that it doesn't matter. It's that it's obviously. The particulars matter, but it's, it's the consistency over time. And like adherence that sort of is the magic. It's the secret ingredient that everyone's after. And so there's, there's a variety of different things that work. And like, if you get really like, really into the weeds of it, like, like share like, like take Quito or something like that, for example, like, like it's really, really good at losing fat and like, and really good at like losing weight, but like not for magic reasons, for reasons that it's just sort of like, it's very, it's very easy to create a calorie deficit for people who've never like dieted before and suddenly they just like can't have carbs anymore. Like to like get into the weeds of the, that sign. It's, it's actually like really bad on your arteries over like an extended period of time. It is very good for like short periods of time if you're trying to lose weight, but it's not helpful for like gym fitness eat things. But if you're just like purely after like getting the scale number down, then like sure.

Jay:

Can I add onto that? Yeah. So I, everything like I agree a hundred percent with it's calories in calories out, and everything is kind of a shoot off of that, but I would say the other thing that most people have challenges with when it comes to new year's resolutions is they plan for a physical challenge. When in reality, I think it's a mental challenge. And a lot of the time that people fail like goals and diets and everything in general is not because they can't physically do it. It just, for them, it's a mental thing. And last year I did a men's physique show and it was not a physical challenge. The entire thing, I would say like 80% of it was mental just every single day, doing exactly what I was supposed to do at eating exactly what I was supposed to eat to get in the shape that I needed to get in. Going to the gym was the easiest part of the day. And I think a lot of the times if people. Think of it more as a mental challenge and kind of address some of the mental toughness and struggles and hard parts about fitness. I think the actual fitness aspect comes a lot easier to people.

Brent:

So, so I think that's, that was kind of what I wanted to get it. Is there, like in your experience, is there a diet strategy that may be, is like less mental overhead or something? Like, for me, I just I find it easier to just know, like, these are like the two or three things. These are like, these should be my three meals every day versus like calorie, counting, calorie, counting, and like busting out my fitness pal. Every time I put something in my mouth is just brutal for me. And I don't know, but I know other people can do it. And like, you know, maybe there's just a different structure, different folks thing. But like, I wonder if there's some strategy that is somehow less mentally horrible.

Brit:

for me and I I'm certainly no expert in no coach or anything like that, but I do have friends talk to me pretty consistently and I try to do my best with advice. And so I've, I have two things here, one, and this is something I like, I like just, I think that the easiest part, especially when you're getting going, I always try to sell it as it's do the bare minimum plus one, like you just it's baby steps. You got to start, stop slow. And I think like new year's resolutions are great examples of that. And so it's like, there are, there's lots of coaches out there. Most of them aren't very good. And so like, what will happen is that like the, you know, a lot of it too, your health is like very, very deeply subjective. And so just like in the same way that. You could take all four of us and we could work out the exact same way, eat the exact same things. And our bodies would still look very different. So that's why, like, when you're at the professional level, like your coach has to like be really, really good. They have to see like what's working with you and what is, and then, so it's not like a one size fit, all approach. So, but anyways, yeah, so bare minimum plus one is just like, I dunno, like for me, it's just like, I very, very slowly like, like weeded out foods and then slowly, slowly like became like, I, I even started like last year was really the first time I like really tried to like count everything and meal prep and do all that. And like over a year later I'm like finally in a groove of it. And so that's like, that's like through like, through failing through like having a week or maybe even a month of just like, not being on point, but like you stick with it and you keep going. And the only now, again, like after over an entire year, do I feel like finally. Sort of grew with it, but then also too, you just, you just have to keep trying, like every there's so many different ways. And again, it's just the consistency that works. Like I think Brent, you just need to try like everything under the sun. And I think eventually you'll find what works best for you. And like, for me, like I like my self control is like keeping, like keeping everything away. Like I do not. Some people, some people are great. Some people could just like, yeah, I'll have to worry. I was no problem. I just can't do that. I've tried and tried and tried and tried, you know, all sorts of different strategies. And so it works just not, not buying Oreos, like, and so eventually like eventually you'll come up with like rules and systems that were, but I think just like, you know, the way your body processes, all the macros and calories and stuff is deeply subjective. I think the, the sort of the right approach is also deeply subjective. It's what works for you,

Brent:

Let's say, let me, let me straighten you out. Actually, the next step is you'll have kids and then you'll find there's just Oreos all over your house all the time

Brit:

Yeah. Yeah,

Brent:

can't pop it. And you're like, we should get rid of these Oreos. And then they're like, ah, dad, you gotta eat them. You gotta eat those Oreos. That's the only way to make them disappear. And then you're like, now I have to take one for the team and you ate a bunch of Oreos.

Brit:

Yeah.

Jay:

There's a lot of truth in that though, because I know I'm being serious here because I struggled when I. If I was living with somebody, whether that be like a roommate, a girlfriend, whatever, it was tough because like girl scout cookies would appear and I made darn sure they disappeared. And when I'm like the only one that has food in my apartment, it's so much easier for me to control what's coming in, coming out. But I think to everything Brent was saying, it's all, it's all about consistency and what you're able to stick with. Like I'm like him, I can't do it. If I there's, I'm not going to eat one slice of pizza. If I order some dominoes that whole pizza is going to eat. And I think people are all going to be different. But I think you also need to be very realistic about your goals, what you want to do, and then what you're, you're able to do, because I could sit here and do. Anybody a plan where they are going to lose weight, but 99.9% of people would not be able to follow that plan because of how strict it is. So do what you, what you think you can do or what you can stick with. And a lot of people like Brett was saying, it's a lot easier to start with something and then add a little bit more to it each week. But at the same time too, it's you always got to balance out against your goals. You know, you're not going to lose 20 pounds and, you know, let's say two and a half months by walking a mile a day, you're going to have to really, really dial in your food and dial in your your gym routines and everything else to hit some of those goals. And it just, I guess, where, what are your goals? How do you want to get there? And like what your timeframe is for it, and then trying to balance that all with the best way to do it.

Brit:

I think one of the things I would suggest too, I've had this conversation with a friend that probably the person I talked to the most, or at least comes to me for advice is that I think that you don't want to try to do too much at once. And this, I think kind of, kind of goes back into what I was saying earlier about like, and so like, you know, I was like, oh, I want to, I want to lose fat and gain muscle. Like, how do I do that? And so like the general rule of thumb is that you should consume one gram of protein per body, per pound in your body. And I think that's just too much when you're just starting out. Like, and it doesn't, that's what I said to this friend. I was just like, don't worry about that. You will, you will, you will see like gains in the gym just by consuming, purely by consuming more protein than you have before. But like, our focus is losing weight for us. It's like, that's like, you know, again, setting your goals sort of property. Really. I think that's like putting yourself into the shoes of like a professional athlete. Who's just like going to go get this done sort of no matter what. And I think for someone who's not, you know, all in on it, that's got other hobbies. That's just sort of doing this on the side and things like that. Like, I think it's just very important to just like one step at a time. And so for him, I'm just like, let's just get your calories, you know, focus calories in calories out. And like, I know you're eating more protein because you've never had protein shakes before. And so it was like, as long as you're getting those, then like you're already doing better than before. And then you build and then you build and you build, and that's just like, that's the approach. And again, sort of, I think, especially when it comes to resolutions, we want, we want too much too quickly and it's just, it's all about baby steps. It's a game of inches. Like, I don't know, like I'm become recently interested in, I don't know if I would compete, but I find. Bodybuilding interesting as like a spectator in a sports. And you'll hear these people talk about like, yeah, like maybe in two years, I think I could beat that person. And that's just like, those are what the conversations are. Like. It is just like a slow, slow process. And it's a, you know, it's a real sort of test of dedication and patience and so on, but it's just, it's just all about being realistic. And I think that if you're consistent sort of, no matter what you're doing, like you'll see the results you have. Like there's plenty of people like that. Aren't like hardcore dieting, but they've just started working out and they're losing weight and just, it just, it comes naturally. And then once you're at, you know, once you get to your first wall, like adjust and then the next wall adjust, it's just, I think all about knowing who you are and going very patiently and slowly with it.

Jay:

So it's something I want to say too, is like, when I, when I did my show last year, I lost 30 pounds in 16 weeks and it was probably the nastiest weight cut I'd ever done. And I'm a really happy person. I was honestly depressed the entire 16 weeks.

Brit:

I mean, that's what they talk about. All of them, you know, I listened to these podcasts and they just talk about how terrible, like you're, I mean, so like bodybuilding really at the end of the day, again, sort of, as Dave was saying earlier, it's really not about the gym. It's really just about being very, very like dedicated eaters, very, very disciplined eaters. But yeah, like they're just, I'll every single one of them, they're just like, you're just starving for like, just completely starving for the last like six weeks. And of course this is like on the very, very extreme side of things. Like nobody within, you know, nobody at the high level of bodybuilding, like they all know it's like unhealthy and bad for you. Like there's also that perception that like, I think that like, That those people like, think don't know that, and that's just wrong. Like they know what they're doing. And like, they know it's like bad for their health. They know all the steroids and stuff are just terrible for you. Long-term and that's just like part of the game when you compete at the professional level. But yeah, it was just so many stories about how just like terrible and lethargic you become at the end of your like eight week sort of cut or what have you.

Jay:

I did 16 and I would not recommend it to anybody. It was honestly, it was I'm so glad I did it. And it was a great experience. And I learned a lot about myself. What I had to go through for that 16 weeks, I would not wish on anybody, but like I said, it, I don't think we're necessarily going to that level. I think a lot of people with new year's resolutions want to get in a little bit healthier shape. They're not necessarily looking to like step on stage with it. And I think like you were talking about finding that moderation between what's healthy and good for you and what you can sustain is so much different than the you're going to be absolutely perfect on everything. And I think that's one of the biggest things is like people, people like give up because there'll be like, they'll eat that, you know, six Oreos and then be like, ah, alright, messed up my diet. All right. And then they'll mess up their diet for the next four days before they try to get back on it. It's like you made a mistake. All right. Hey, all right. Yeah, the Oreos, they were awesome. Okay. Tomorrow is going to be a new day and just get right back on the trailer, the wagon or whatever. Just go with it, but I think just do what set realistic goals for yourself and make sure you can stick with those and then just keep adding onto them and moving forward with them.

Brent:

All right. All right. So then the next big, like, concept I want to talk about. if you were one of those, like bros that wanted abs and stuff, and like, you want to be a big, you want to be like big eventually, but like, would you focus on like really trying to lose weight aggressively? Or would you say, Hey, you know, the, the way it'll come off, if you're like doing the work and your diet is like, kind of dialed in, you should like reap the benefits of your size to like put on more muscle and, and kinda take the middle path a little. Like, I don't know if that's the thing, but I feel like that's the thing. Like some, some people who are big that, like, I just want to be like skinnier and then, and then I'll get huge after that. Right. They're like, no, I gotta cut the 6% or 8% or 10%. And then I'll get huge versus like some, some middle path. Cause they're not the answer there.

Jay:

So the old joke is big, lean, natural choose to it's really, really hard to abs is a hundred percent diet, a hundred percent diet. I mean, you're going to go to the gym. You're going to do your AB workout, but you could do setups. You'd do 300 setups a day. If you're eating

Brent:

about body bag.

Jay:

Yeah. It's about body fat. You're not going to see it on. And a lot of people. Aren't even really aware of like body fat or what it is like if you're like 6% body fat, you're like borderline debt. Like it just, realistically humans are not supposed to get that low. Like Brett was talking about that's absolutely like top tier competitive people. Like realistically, most people you're going to see abs in that 10 to 12%. But it's a hundred percent diet and depends. It depends on the person. Some people, you know, I went to high school with people that never saw the inside of a gym and they would have abs just because they had very, very low body fat percentage. And then other people, they would have to diet like crazy to even see a glimmer of abs in there. So it depends completely on the person. And once again, what your goals are. I always look at it as. I'm a marathon runner and a swimmer are vastly different. Like if you look at Olympic level marathon runners, they're going to have a vastly different body than like Michael Phelps in swimming. And what are your goals? Do you really want abs do you want really big muscles? Because if you really want abs, you're probably not going to have huge arms. You're going to be a very skinny person. And if you want big arms and huge muscles and move big weights, you can say goodbye to the abs. It's, you'll probably have a nice round stomach there. So it just depends on what you want and what your goals are. And everybody's a little bit different on that.

Brit:

Yeah, I would say just the only thing, even though it sort of cuts against like part of what I was just saying, at least in my recommendations for a friend, but this is where the sort of like, it's called recomposition. So like, traditionally you, you you're on a, you bolt or you cut, but the middle of the sort of middle one, which is really, really good for like beginners, like people who've never been in the gym before, sort of towards the intermediate level, just like you can do both at the same time. You can, you can lose fat and gain muscle and that's, it's sort of, again, the rule of thumb, there is just calorie deficit. Protein one gram of protein per pound of body fat. And that should do the trick more or less, but like, again, I think like, just like a good faith attempt will like also get you there too. If you're, you know, if your goals are realistic, right. You, you're not going to suddenly look like you know, a professional or anything, but it's, it's definitely doable. But yeah, it's one that, like, I it's one I struggle with like, I don't know, like, should I just get really lean, you know? And that's the fun, I just like

Brent:

The reason I ask the question, I feel like it'd be like, everybody has that question. If they're like, well, I'd like to be skinnier, but I also like to be bigger.

Brit:

people. I mean, again, this is sort of the interesting part is that like, like the science is not particularly agreed. Like there's a lot of, there's a lot of disagreement out there, especially too. It's always like you have the science crowd versus the bro crowd, bro science versus real science or however you want to frame it. And at least as far as I can tell, like, R right. Or at least both sides have important things to say, but they're, you know, they're usually sort of cast as diametrically opposed or something like that. But I don't know, like I just, at least for me, like I just, I have a coach and I just trust them sort of, and we'll go from there. So I, right now I'm gaining weight, even though I, I'm not, I'm not like a particularly lean or anything like that, but he knows what he's doing. So.

Jay:

I guess I would also say. Give it a try. Like I learned the most about weight loss and fitness and weight gaining just through doing bulks, you learn so much about yourself and how your body reacts to different foods and things like that. And same thing when you're cutting weight, you're you learn a whole bunch about what works for you and what doesn't, and everybody's different. And that's awesome. You have a coach. I know not everybody has, you know, goes that route on stuff, but you know, what your coach and you were working on might work awesome for you. But if I did that exact same routine, it might not work at all for me. So I think just, I think a lot of times too, especially when it comes to fitness and I've seen this with people, they spend so much time, I always recommend spend more time doing the necessary, necessarily planning because I've seen so many people they'll go and, you know, buy all the healthy food and they'll all, you know, they'll do all of the the re research online and watch the YouTube videos. And you're like, oh, Hey, did you make it to the gym? No, but I, I went to the grocery store and bought all this food. Well, did you eat any of it? No. I stopped at, by taco bell on the way home, just all because I knew I didn't want to cook tonight. So like, I think just, just getting out there and doing it, you're going to learn more and more about yourself. And I think once you, especially for people that don't do a whole lot of fitness you know, like Brett was saying with recomp, which is very good for people that aren't are just starting to get into fitness. That if you go from doing nothing to doing anything, you're going to start seeing results very quickly. And I think that's very motivating for people. But at the end of the day, it just, you got to start doing it. And if that's, you know, set those goals for yourself, I'm going to go to the gym four times a week. I'm going to, you know even something simple, like I'm going to have eggs and oatmeal for breakfast, the rest of my meals, I'm going to leave kind of normal, but just this one meal, I'm going to make sure I'm doing right every single day. Just, just start doing something. That's going to start moving you in that direction. Because I feel like a lot of people get so involved with the planning and the plans get so detailed and so involved that it's very hard to like stick with them or if they would've just started, started on the trail, it would have been a lot easier for them.

Brit:

Yeah. It's like the analysis paralysis or something I had to, I have friends or just to everything you just said, if not worse, they do it for everything. They've done it for fitness, but anything they get into, it's just like a big, it's a big show and then they never do it. But yeah. And I, I think it's like that, it's just, it's, it's trying to do too much, too fast. It's like, okay, it's new year's resolution, January 1st. I'm eating perfectly and going to the gym and it's just like, that's probably too hard. That's probably why so many people can't keep up with it. And so it was like, no, like let's get the gym consistency first and like, and then let's just stop ordering French fries. And then, and then, you know, we'll have the eggs and oatmeal for practices. It's, it's just the baby steps. It's the bare minimum. Plus one.

Jay:

I think getting to the gym is honestly the biggest one start working out. Like even if somebody had a horrible diet, if they go to the gym and they just start in on that fitness routine. They're going to see results. Now, if you're somebody that's been working out consistently for like eight years, 10 years plus it's going to be really hard to only do one thing and have consistent results. But if you're, if you're not into fitness at all, and you just start going to the gym a few times a week, you're going to start seeing results from that. And just, I guess that's my biggest thing. Just get out there, get started.

Brent:

So, assuming that the aesthetic is really like your number one priority. Cause I feel like going into new year's resolutions I think people have like health benefits and aesthetics or like, or like the things driving it as opposed to like athletic goals or something like that. How important is cardio?

Jay:

Not important. And I mean, I, people are going to give different answers on that, but it's once again, calories in calories. Cardio is a tool used to control the calories in calories out. And obviously any sort of health care professional is going to recommend some level of cardio to keep up your cardiovascular conditioning and everything. But as far as can I, can I lose weight or gain weight without doing cardio? The answers all a hundred percent? Yes. When I was doing my Cod, I didn't even do cardio the first six or seven weeks because I was just dropping weight, like crazy. I was dropping that two pounds a week. I wanted to, and then when I started struggling to drop that two pounds, that's when I started doing cardio. And then I started up being how much cardio I was doing. If you enjoy doing cardio. Yeah, absolutely. It's highly recommended. I, I recommend everybody does cardio, but is it a mandatory thing? Like I'm not going to be able to lose weight if I don't get out there and run the answer is no, you, you can, you can lose weight and get in shape and be healthy without running. It just recommended for, for basic health.

Brent:

I'm always telling my kids that if I get out and just run for like half an hour, I could eat like a quarter of that donut and feel no

Brit:

I mean, that's true. Like if you want to eat in certainly like doing extra cardio helps, but like, yeah. I mean, every, I don't have anything really more to add on what Jay says, but yeah. Like, I don't know. I think we usually just have this like caricature of like what bodybuilders are like, you know, in general, like at a very general level. And it's just like, they're doing, they do their gym routine and then they're doing like two hours of cardio every single day. And that's just like, again, only true for like the elite elite, elite competitors. And like, even then they're not doing that much cardio. It's like, it's, it's very rare for like, I don't I've, I've worked with like two coaches now and I just basically like do too much just naturally like the dog walks that I go on every day or like more than I should be doing essentially. But yeah, like you'd be surprised. I think like 20, 30 minutes, four to five times a week I like it. So that's again, why I'm doing, doing it a lot. And then like, and again, if you're like super into it, even that might be like taxing, like you might not be recovered enough for your workouts. Like, if you're running a lot, like your legs, aren't going to be in the shape. They need to be, to have that like really good quad, hamstring workout, things like that. Like come into play the more like the actual, like lifting matters. But yeah, I think are in a lot of it too, like there's a lot of like exercises out there that are also like just cardio, like take abs or something, for instance, like you could count doing abs like as cardio, like, because, because of like, it's not like kind of tax your muscles, like say like a compound movement would like, I know, I know a bodybuilder and like that's what he does is his cardio is his app day. And that's, that's like it, things like that.

Jay:

I will say too. I think a lot of people like you don't burn as many calories with cardio as people sometimes imagine, it's not like, Hey, I'm going to go to McDonald's and have a big Mac and large fries and everything. Okay. That 15 minutes on the treadmill is just going to wipe that out. It doesn't work like that. Like if you go hard. On a treadmill doing cardio, you might burn a 300 calories, 350 calories in 20 minutes. So essentially you're, you're having that half a donut you were talking about. So it's not like I can eat whatever I want and then spend 20 minutes on the treadmill and I'll just erase it. It's cardio was a tool and it's you just gotta be, you really have to be, I feel like dialed in on your calories to know how much cardio you could be doing or should be doing on stuff. But if you absolutely hate cardio you absolutely can do well in the gym and have a nice aesthetic body without doing tons and tons of cardio. And like Brett was saying, a lot of coaches will actually recommend you. Don't do crazy amounts of cardio, maybe three, four times a week.

Brent:

That's already a two to three times more than I do. Turn it. I might, Mike is, Mike is really the runner and the.

Mike:

Yeah, for sure. But actually this is a good segue, I think, into the. next question you had on your Brit. So of the three of us, I am the least experienced in the gym by a very, very large margin. I, I, I, I always run. But only I've dabbled in the gym here and there over the years, but really only in the last, like six to eight months, I I've kind of started going somewhat regularly. And what that means for me so far has been like maybe three times a week, I'll spend like 45. 30 minutes, 45 minutes in the gym. And you know, I got my, I got a bunch of like exercises, mostly with free weights. There's a couple of machines, but you know, I'll probably do like 10, 11 exercises do some reps. So I have some whatever routine now, but I still don't know if it's really that good. And so I guess for someone in my situation, and especially for someone in my situation, six months ago, what would you recommend someone that like is interested somewhat active and healthy and wants to kind of get into it just a little bit. And you know, I don't have any illusions of trying to get like big muscular or anything, but I just wanna, you know, do a little bit, so what, what would you suggest?

Jay:

I think ironically enough, probably the same. If I was a brand new Pokemon player, the same stuff you would recommend to me to get better at Pokemon is probably the exact same stuff I would recommend to you to get better at the gym. I

Brent:

Circular reference this amazing.

Mike:

Yeah.

Jay:

I would say, Hey, watch some YouTube videos read articles talk to people at the gym. I have people at the gym come up to me. You know, I was at the gym last week and I was benching and a guy goes, Hey man, you got a really, really good bench. What are some things that I can do to get my bench up? People are very friendly and I think a lot of the times people get very intimidated about the gym or they're very, if you're not into the gym, it's very intimidating to go to a gym. But at a lot of times too, everyone there is super friendly because everybody there, like, regardless if you were like 300 pounds overweight and you're trying to get healthier, or you're like 8% body fat getting ready for your step on stage for a show, you're there to get better. And even though you're at different points, you guys have the exact same attitude. And I think everybody's just really friendly about it. And a lot of people like me are kind of closet nerds about fitness and they know how. Like, you know, talk and they'll, you know, I could talk for hours about macros and, you know, the proper nutrition and, and everything else. But just a lot of it is just getting out there, trying, you know, doing research, same thing with Pokemon, you got to play games you know, get to the gym, try different things, try different workouts. Especially if you're trying to do things like Brett was saying like recomp and things like that, I think have your core, what you're trying to work, but try different exercises, try different AB workouts, try different arm workouts, try different shoulder workouts. Especially if you're new, you are going to see results. And there's going to be some things you like, some things you don't like, I think it's good to always switch the workout. I'll try new things, try different forms of exercise. If you want to get in better shape than you, you hate you hate weightlifting get in the pool, swimming. We'll absolutely, you know, get you a lot of that. Muscular and tonus, you're looking for, but I think it's a lot of just doing research and. Getting into the gym and trying what works for you and seeing what you like. And what's, you're seeing results.

Brent:

Let me push on that a little. I was, I felt like. Like my body started to change a little when, when I went from, I go to the gym and I have like fun circuit training for 45 minutes to, I have a plan. And like I have, I have a, you know you know, I'm going to, I'm going to lift this weight every time I'm here and I'm going to like, and it's got to go up five pounds. Like, like I think w when I transitioned from a, what I was described as like the poopoo platter of a wandering around the gym to having a program like that was where I was like, oh, now stuff's happening. Like, I could see things changing as opposed to the variety pack that I had previously how important is like having.

Jay:

I think having a plan is good. You know, if we want to relate this back to Pokemon, you know, all, you can throw 60 cards together and enter a tournament. It's probably better to go in with a deck and a strategy. But I, I think, yeah, I think having a plan is good. Having a general game plan or a general idea and doing like a certain split, like today, I'm going to work, you know, abs and back or abs back and shoulders. And then I think you have a little bit of flexibility within working those three and trying different exercises and workouts that you enjoy. I think going in with this strategy especially if you're putting a little bit of effort into it, I think you're going to take it more seriously. I think anytime you go in, I guess to the gym and you've got, you know, you have a goal and you're like, Hey, I'm going to do this today. You're going to take it more seriously. You're going to be more prepped for, and you're going to push yourself a little bit more than just now I'll show up to the gym today, see what happens, but I guess that would be my 2 cents on it.

Brent:

So, so if. Yeah.

Brit:

Oh, yeah, no, I mean, I guess to circle back to just like, Mikey's initial question, my response would be like, it doesn't sound like you're very far off already. Like again, I think a lot of the issue is that we have this, like, this character shared these stereotypes of like what the lifestyle is like, actually like, and so, like you're saying you're only going like three or four times a week and it's like four or five times a week is like normal, like professional body lifters. Don't lift every day because they can't like you, you, you have to recover properly. And so like going four or five times is that, but yeah, definitely, definitely a plan. And again, just in the same way that I think figuring out like, what works for you, like in the kitchen, like it's the same in the gym, both in terms of like, there's just, there's so many different just like styles or strategies, you know what I would recommend? Like, there's just like basically countless like apps that will basically do this. Like, you know, it's this fitness personality. And I, you know, I post daily workouts, five different kinds and it's like $8 a month or something like that. That's usually. Subscribe to like two of those. And like, they usually have like, like a video demonstration of the lift or like a really good explanation going, trying to like talk you through the muscle mechanics and things like that. But just, but then also like on top of that, again, it's just sort of the same point over and over and over again. You just have to figure out what works for you. And again, that's going to come down to the, the exercises and the machines themselves. Like it's all about like, do you feel it like, can you feel, you know, the lat pull down where you're supposed to feel it? Like, no, are you doing it perfectly? The answer might be yes. Like every muscle, every muscle mechanics again are going to be deeply subjective. And so like where you feel the best sort of tension and pull and activation is going to depend. So, yeah, I think definitely like having a plan is important, but the plan is going to be fairly general. You just need to know, like, I'm doing my legs today or like, you know, again, there's an infinite number of like, not infinite, but quite a lot of options out there. And so like the ones, I mean, generally there's like, there's the bro split and that's when you do like one muscle part a day, you have an arms day chest day, you probably break up your legs since, so you have a quad day and a hamstring day and so on and so forth. But then usually what I do, or at least some sort of variation of what I do is called push pull legs. And so it's, it's all pushing movements and then pulling movements and then the legs and then rest and then repeat. So just something like that, like. And again, it can be, you can do full body, like a lot of, a lot of like beginner to intermediate sort of plans. Like these ones that I'm talking about will be like that it won't be so sort of like regimented it'll, you'll hit, like, you'll, you'll hit like a chest kind of, you know, those, your, your core, your compound exercises. And you'll like hit one of those and then a few like accessory machines and things like that. But again, it's just sort of figuring out what you like. Like some people, like I tried powerlifting, like even, even when I was just in grad school, not just two or three years ago, like I was more on like that side of things. And I've gotten away from that. And again, but it's all just part of the process. You just, I mean, and maybe that's part of who I am. Like my personality is I like, I just, I need to try all the flavors, you know, I don't, I can't stick to like one brand or one thing for instance, the same amount of time. I always just like, I liked the variety packs and things like that. So I'm always trying new things and doing things a little bit different. Yeah, I think just sort of something like that. And again, too, I think too, on top of just like the wrong stereotypes that we have a lot of in time it's that your workout takes like two hours or something and like, no, like 50 minutes to an hour is like, you're doing, you're doing good work. Like four to five exercises at just a little under an hour. Like, that's a good workout. Like, some people are like, they're too long because they're like, it's on their phone or they do too much and things like that. But there's also too, like if you're doing it properly, like, you'll know when you're done. Like you you'll be really, really tired, things like that. And that's just like getting the form properly. Right. And that's, that's really what I've been learning a lot with my, like, one-on-one work with the coach that I have now is just like getting my form. Right. Which like, even like a year or two ago, I probably would've told you, I was like super confident about like doing exercises. Right. But I now, where I'm working now, I like couldn't have been more wrong than, and it's definitely like. You don't know how little, you know, until you sort of work with someone who knows more like in the same way, like you're good at Pokemon playing with your friends, but then you, you get washed at the first tournament. You go to sort of a pretty standard series of events. It'd be something similar. I think that that's, I guess, where like Jay's recommendation for like like YouTube videos and tutorials and things like that are very useful for, I

Brent:

So my concern with the YouTube videos is you end up on like some like men's health, celebrity workout, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like if you were, if you were a Pokemon player, who's like just getting started. Is there like a specific program that you would say, Hey, this is a reasonable thing. You should jump in on this. Like, I mean, I just recognize that you go to Reddit fitness, you'll see like 5, 3, 1 or five by five or Texans or in suns or G, G ZPL or whatever. Like there's a million choices. And at some level they're all four to six exercises a day, like some do 3 74 or five, six days, like, but they don't know.

Jay:

just do a basic full body is what I would recommend any sort of beginner. Make sure you are doing some of the bigger compound lifts in there. Benches. Excellent. To make sure you're hitting a couple of times a week. Squats and deadlifts are great for making sure you hit a couple times a week. The big thing is, especially for anybody new, I really recommend you take that five or 10 minutes at the start of the gym and just stretch. Anybody who has been going to the gym long enough has had some sort of injury in that five to 10 minutes. You skip stretching is absolutely not worth it when you you know, pull a muscle or something like that. So I always recommend that, but I think just doing a basic full body workout is probably best for any sort of beginner. Just, you know, choose maybe one or two arm exercises, one or two AB exercises, one or two leg exercises. And in total like Brett was saying, I don't think I've ever spent more than an hour at the gym. If you can put your phone down and you just get going you can get it knocked out real quick. That's the other thing, like people think you have to spend an hour and a half or two hours a day working out. No, if you, you spend an hour, you know, hour a day, maybe five days a week, four days a week, you know, in the grand scheme of things, you're talking four or five hours a week. That's absolutely nothing. I mean, that's like, you know, we sit and watch Netflix for hours and not even think a single thing of it. Take that one hour for yourself. You know, go to the gym. Something I do is I like to listen to books while I'm at the gym. I'll do a lot of audible and stuff like that. So I kind of feel like I'm multitasking, but no, I think just a basic full body workout. Probably three to four times a week, if you're starting out would be my advice to anybody new.

Mike:

there. So, so that, that is how I started. So quick question, is there a time that I should. Evolved from that to a, to a more like individual workout. Or if all I want to do is kind of just like maintain somewhat tonus. Is it cool to just keep doing like full body all the time?

Brit:

Yeah, I think so.

Jay:

yeah. I mean, it's, it's totally up to you and what your interest level and what your time level is, and you know, what you want to do. Or like if, once again, to relate it back to Pokemon, you can a hundred percent be a casual player, your entire career, you don't need to worry about, you know, being the next Jason Kaczynski or toward as maybe a better example nowadays, or Azule. If you just want to go in and play your, you know quad Leafeon deck, you're, you're do it, you know, but at the same time too I think if you want to, you know, go up from that and look at doing some more complicated workouts or some more complicated movements stuff like. Yeah, absolutely. I would look at some different plans. I think like Brett was talking about doing a push poll. Split is very good. I usually do a couple body parts a day. I usually do a, you know, a leg and abs one day and back, and then I do like upper body and other day. And that's really worked well for me, but I also think there is, there's been a lot of good science as far as switching things off and switching between plans and switching workouts and things like that. You don't want the body to become super used to what you're doing. You want to be trying different, you want to constantly keep your body force your body to evolve and change. But yeah, I think a lot of that is just getting in the gym and starting with, you know, kinda that entry-level full body workout. And then looking at growing from there, kind of depending on what your interest level is and how committed you want to be to it.

Mike:

Cool.

Brent:

We should just be somewhat pedantic and say, does any of this advice change for.

Jay:

Women have statistically usually a harder time cutting weight than men do. Statistically speaking, they'll have a harder time putting on muscle than men do. Will say it depends on the person. Sometimes the goals are going to be different, you know, but once again, I won't even say that it's necessarily a men and woman thing, but like Like, even for competition you know, what a man might do to look good in a swimsuit is going to be different than what a woman might do to look good in a bikini. You know, because I'm not trying to wear a bikini when I go and do a show or I go to the gym or anything like that. So but yeah, I would say there's a little bit of differences in like anatomy and what will work for them and the hardships and struggles for certain things. But I think as far as the actual workouts go, I think you're going to find a lot of crossovers. I think women would find the exact same level of success with doing a full body workout as a man would I guess a lot of it would just be as do they want to put on muscle? Do they want to look tone? What, what are their goals? I guess, Brett, would you have anything different to say on that?

Brit:

No. I mean, I think the general again, You know, the, the general principles are going to apply and it's, it's just, it's the consistency that matters. I know, like, yeah, like it's going to be a far more nuanced conversation if we're talking about like coaching, like an elite level, like bikini model or wellness model, something like that. But like, no, I mean, I, I really don't think so. I think just like again, no, it w w what Jay says is right about I think it's like fat and things like that are just more stubborn. I think it has to do with, like, it has to do with estrogen and things like that. Cause some of the, like the like steroids and compounds that the professionals would take are just like, anti-estrogen like, they, they will bring your body down to like literally zero of it and things like that. And that's part of why you like your mood sucks and things too. But anyways, no, I, I do think that. The general things should apply sort of just across the board that it's just about finding what you like, figuring out what your goals are and then just getting consistent about it. So I think that, yeah, like, and I think too, like, again, I sort of am cautious about making like general statements like this, but I think like, like when it comes to the gym, like women are like, they're a lot more apprehensive to like start with weights. Cause they don't want to be big. Like that's usually not the sort of their goal. They don't want to get big and muscular and that's just like, not the case. Like you're not going to get freaky big just because you start like lifting weights. That's going to be like when you have to dial in the nutrition and things like that. But I do think that like, if your goals are just kind of like, as Mikey describes it kind of just like maintenance or just like sort of like toning up keeping where you are and putting on like a little size then. Yeah, absolutely. I don't think there's really any differences at all.

Jay:

But there is differences in bodies. Like if women will not put on muscle the same way that men will. I think that's kind of getting into a different conversation. And like I said, just depends on what you're looking for beyond. It'll just be, as you're lifting heavy does not necessarily mean you'll put on tons of muscle with stuff.

Brent:

Right. How much accessory work versus just like focusing on the big company.

Brit:

Yeah. A lot of machines. Like I don't, I mean, I don't even do with a regular bench press, like at all anymore. I like to incline a lot. But but yeah, I mean, I think it's just about finding where you feel best, like where you feel like the right tension. Like if it's a, and that's where just like having good form is really, really important. Like again, like I don't, I just, I don't have great advice for this. I'm just saying. A visual learner. Like I watching a YouTube video or these little clips on my phone just like cannot help me to like, get the motions and the movements. Right. Like I've, I've basically had to have the one-on-one intention to get there, but

Jay:

I, I think it depends a lot on your, your goals. Like if you and what your timeframe is, but if you were like, Hey, I've got 20 minutes in the gym before I got to get to work. What do you recommend? I do. I would say, you know, hit your bench, hit your squad, hit your deadlift, hit the main ones. I think some of those accessory ones are more like, if you're like, Hey, I got a full hour here. If you only had a few minutes, I would definitely make sure you're hitting those compound lifts and really working on those. And then I think if you are, if you've got more time, like I definitely hit machines and things like that. Generally speaking people prefer free weights are going to be better than machines because it forces your your muscles are under tension a little bit differently, but I would say, yeah, I think the machines and stuff are good, but at the same time, too, if somebody was very intimidated about going to the gym or they were very new and they didn't know what to do and all they wanted to do is go into the gym and, and do machines. I think that's far better than sitting at home and not doing machines. So I think, yeah, I think it's machines and accessory workouts very important, but I would S I would say it's more the sides and not necessarily the main, the main course. If you were looking at it from like a meal perspective,

Brent:

Let's talk about logging and tracking for a second. Do you guys have, have you guys figured out, like what the right do you guys use a notebook? Do you use a special iPhone app? Do you track it on your computer? Like, is there, is there a thing that you've found works well for you.

Jay:

Well, it works well for you is what you're willing to do. And for me, like I, when I was doing my show, like the easiest part of the entire process was literally going into the gym. I absolutely hated tracking. It was very hard to record every single meal and do every little thing. Ironically, what I found works the best was to use Alexa because you could say, Hey, I've got 10 ounces of chicken breast, how much protein is in that? Or how many calories? And she would give it to you perfectly. But I think for me, like I had her, I, you get to a point where. I could just look at a dish and I would say, okay, this is about 450 calories, about 40 grams of protein. It's this, this and this. But I think generally it's very challenging for people to track. I think kind of like we were talking about earlier baby steps, and I think having a general idea is far better for people than track that then track every single calorie. The challenge to that is, is people usually underestimate, like, they'll look at a donut and be like, all right, that's probably 60 calories when in reality that doughnuts like 300 calories. So I guess, I don't know. I think it's finding that common middle ground. I never got to the point where I was tracking absolutely every single thing, but I had a very, I had, I knew it pretty precisely what it was, but at the same time, too, for somebody just starting out, I think I would worry more about I'm going to cut the regular pop out of my diet then, you know, making sure they had every single pallor written down for.

Brent:

You know what I love, I love the Alexa tips. That's a really, really good one, but, but I, I demonstrate that I'm a terrible interviewer by asking the question the wrong way. I was taught about logging and tracking workouts. Sorry, sorry. I was still on, I transitioned from the diet thing to the workout thing.

Jay:

Oh, I had a notebook. So like for

Brent:

notebook.

Jay:

I would have a notebook. And I remember this because I, I remember I was in a store one time and they had these Taylor swift notebooks that were like a dollar 50 each, and I just bought a handful of them and I would always, always take it to the gym and I'd get like big buff dudes in the gym. Look at me as I'm like scribbling in my Taylor swift notebook over there in the corner. But now right now I don't record it at all. I just have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing and how often I'm doing it. But I writing it out, always helped me. And that was always the easiest thing for me.

Brit:

Yeah. Or some of the other stuff, a lot of the apps that I mentioned will have like a, a note sort of functionality built into it. Like one of them will like it like saves that. Sort of like an edit bang. So like, regardless of which of these workouts I'm in, if like, if like the lap, the lat pull down is in that workout. When I like hit the note, it'll like, anytime I've ever like tried to write a note about the lat pull down, I'll have access to it there. But I mean, all of them have a lot of them have just any kind of note function. And I don't really pay too much attract, like I've done the notebook a little bit. But I, I just kind of know where I'm at and on like most of the, like the, the big exercises, I just, like, I try to get what I'm after is like three sets of perfect for. And then once, once I have that down, like just perfect unified sets all like go up five pounds. But like, and that's how I can help. Like when I'm like, like bolting or something that helps me know, like, you know, I don't, I don't have a, I don't have an eye for it. I don't really know what I look like for the most part. But like, I just like, okay, like I, I didn't get, I didn't get the, you know, didn't get three perfect sets of my, like a dumbbell bench press this week. So I'll be back at that weight this week. And eventually it'll, you know, and if I'm not, you know, if I, if I were like at a wall, I would like maybe, you know, that would be time to like start adjusting the diet and things like that. But just like the improvement should be like fairly steady. Like you'll, you'll find your limit with the strength and then sort of have to make the adjustments accordingly.

Brent:

Mike, are you doing anything to track your workouts now?

Mike:

Am I, no, definitely not.

Brent:

What are we about to say?

Jay:

I just like Brett was saying, I think doing the workout right is so much people get so concerned about how much weight they're doing and having good form and doing it right. Is so much more important. Like the weight will come, but it's much better that you have, you know, you do like a 1 35 bench with good form then to try to do like a one 70 bench with bad form or squats or deadlift or whatever else, like having the good form is so much more important than just trying to like throw weight on there because end of the day, like nobody in the gym really cares, like what your weight is. Just make sure you're doing what's best for you and not hurting yourself.

Brent:

Right, right. You know, it's funny. I mean, I think I'm probably a good example of like the worst kind of person a, you described Jay in that I've probably tried, like, if they're like, oh, there's a new workout app in the app store. I'm like, well, I going to download that. I, I found like, it's funny that like, I haven't found the perfect thing for me. Even though it seems like it'd be straightforward to build. Maybe I should be building it, but like, like, I really like, like one of the features that I like about like some of the apps or things that people will download is like, there's the thing that tells me, like, when you, you like log the set and then it counts for me, you know, 60 seconds or 90 seconds or whatever I tell it to, I like that. I lose track. I'm just like not paying attention. And I find, yeah, like if I mess it with my phone, boom, two minutes. If I get a text from work, like five minutes, like million things happen, I get striked. I like what it's like 60 seconds this past lifts some more. And I'm like, okay, I'll live some more. It's like, I find that is like really good cue, but I haven't found like the other thing that I've found that I really like, and I haven't been able to find something that combines both of these is I like it to tell me how much I should lift, like. There's a lot of apps that tell me here's how much you listed lifted last week. And I'm just like, not super good at keeping track of like that. I go up, like, I don't want to spend all the time going back and trying to figure out what I should lift today. I like the one that's like it. Pre-programmed your entire workout for the next like eight weeks, you know, here's how much you lifted yesterday. Here's how much you're gonna lift today. Go do it. This is how many times you're gonna lift it, man. I like it to just boss me around.

Jay:

So my rule of thumb is I will hit a weight twice. So like if I had a bench and I get that bench goal twice, then I'll move up from there. And it's usually about five pounds. And I think that's just the best way to do. When you're starting out, though, you might, you know, if somebody is just starting out, they might start out in bench 45 pounds. And then within a couple of months, they might be at like 1 35, you know, especially if you're starting out, you're, you're going to increase weight a lot quicker than if you're at that top echelon of your bench, your school.

Brit:

Sort of fairly cynical about the cause some of the, not just the, the workout apps, but some of the, the dieting apps now to have like AI that will like help you do it and like sort of be a little more prescriptive about it. And I'm like really cynical about like this, just the notion that a program could be like, even close to accurate with telling you like, yeah, you definitely go lift this weight this week. The week one versus week eight. This just like, I don't, I don't, I ended that,

Brent:

Y, you know, th the one that I'm using right now, eh, you know, they, they say, okay, you're going to lift this weight today, like this many times. And, and if I say you know, I was only able to lift at this many times, it like dials it down or it lose it the same. If I'm able to hit like, you know, extra two reps on the final set, then it's like, okay, at five pounds I like the pre-programming this because you know I guess when I go to the gym, I don't want to have to think.

Brit:

Yeah, but I mean, the reason why I'm so sort of against something like that, and I'm not against it, like as, for, as someone, if you're interested in that, by all means pursue it. But for sort of like a Mac, if you want to be like immaculate with it, just like, as we're saying, like all of this, the gym is the least important part. So like, you might, you know, you might have a bad lift cause because like your sleep was bad or you ate wrong poorly. Like the workout app is doesn't know those things. And so it's not going to be able to factor that into like, why you, why you might've failed at this way today versus last week. Things like that. And I know that's like fairly nitpicky, but I would just like. I mean, you could use it as a guide. Certainly. I've I've, I've had, I've had, I've worked with similar things before and like always felt there. The prescription was just like whack. It was just like,

Jay:

So real quick, I guess the two things I would add on is like, if you're somebody and you take interest in trying these different apps and doing different things, and that's what keeps you moving along in your fitness journey, man, you download every single thing you want. Like if that's what works for you, go for it. Because I think at the end of the day, just that you're, you know, you're taking that interest and you're moving forward and you're, you're you have that positivity and a positive view on fitness, do whatever you gotta do. I don't use the apps a whole lot. And then I guess the other thing is, is like Brett was saying, you're going to have good days and you're going to have bad days. Like my bench will sway 20 or 30 pounds. And I think once again, when you. Start getting towards that top, top, top echelon of where you're at. I honestly think it becomes less of a physical thing and more of a mental thing. Like where I'm at mentally for that day we'll determine what weight I'm going to hit. Because the biggest thing is, especially when you're hitting like high, high numbers, you have to believe that you can lift that weight. If you honest, man, I don't know if I'll get this one today. You're probably not going to get it. If you go on there and you have that weight is going up, you do not care that weight is going up. You're going to hit that lift. So I guess that's, I guess that's my thoughts on it.

Brit:

Yeah. I mean, I think that's an important point too. Like also a little bit of a tangent here, but like I had, but it was having a conversation sort of recently with like Kirk pubic about this and just like, don't let the scale be like the ultimate arbitrator of what's going on. Like your body weight fluctuates so much. And so again, just like, it's like a poor night of sleep or something could fluctuate. You like a pounder too. And so like, like naturally like a scale is a good metric to have, it will establish consistency over time, but as just like your, you know, how you look as much more important than what the scale says. And so like a lot of people too, like, I don't, I don't want them, you know, it's going to sound like bad or something, but they'll be like, oh man, I lost eight pounds in five days. What do you know? And it's just like waterway moving around. Like it doesn't work like that. Like people, people just like it's so like incremental to. Yeah, just, you have to be patient within. And again, I think the scale is a good metric to have over time, but like people get religious about it and that's how they fall off. Just like, how am I more weight than I was yesterday. I didn't eat at all yesterday. Like, and things like that will happen. And it just like, it just makes it harder. And especially for like, that's the kind of person I am. So I avoid, I only, I only scale like like once a week or so that that's just like, because I will let it like ruin me and things like that. And so again, it's just like why perhaps the most important thing is just figuring out like what works for you. And so certainly some people I think can manage the everyday thing. No problem. But like,

Jay:

And I I'd do it. I'm the opposite. I would scale twice a day, but I would not take those numbers too seriously. I just like to know what would affect my weight. You know, like this food had a negative, you know, I would definitely retain more water with this food or that food. So I was recording my weight twice a day, but if it was a high number, I wouldn't freak out about it or anything. But once again, it's all on the person and what they prefer.

Brent:

Yeah. I'm like UGA, I find I allow myself together a constant stream of data. So I'm not biased by a bad number or a good number. Whereas my wife is like, you Britt. She she's like, I'm only gonna step on if I feel like it's going to be okay. And like, like we know every two weeks is like, no, it's a good time for a way, because I feel like today's a good day. And she, she compares good days to good days to good days. And she's like, she, she's a believer that the pants are really the ultimate arbiter of how it's going.

Jay:

and I agree, like if you, if you're happy with your progress in the gym and you're happy with how you look, I mean, that's, that's honestly, at the end of the day, what it is, because, like I said like Brett was saying so much is Waterweight, you're going to fluctuate on a daily basis. I am three pounds heavier at night than I am in the morning. And that's just generally Waterweight. So when you're weighing yourself, how often are you running yourself? Yeah.

Brit:

That's why I get frustrated at like the doctor's office. I don't under, I mean, again, it's the consistent metrics, I suppose, but I'm just like, what are you doing? Why are you weighing me? I have my jacket on everything's in my pockets. Like, what's going on here? Like, you're going to make me feel

Brent:

I don't want you recording this way. This is not my official.

Brit:

I promise, let me get naked. It'll say something different. Like, it's just like a, it's just a bone I have to pick. I'm always just like, what are you doing? I'm clearly wearing like 10 pounds of clothes. Like, what does this, how is this useful?

Jay:

We won't delve into that whole thing, but the fact that doctors offices still use BMI as a relevant like metric for gauging fitness is, is a big frustration.

Brit:

Okay. What's your favorite? What's your favorite like muscle group to work out?

Jay:

I bench bench, like I have a good, my squat and my deadlift are both questionable, but I just love going in and hitting bench. That's always been my strong suit. I would say, yeah, probably upper body. I dread leg days. I dunno how people enjoy going into going into the gym on leg days, but just anything upper body I really enjoy.

Brent:

How about you?

Brit:

I guess I'm kind of a masochist. I like Dave, but only because they like. At least training at the level that I'm trying to train at is very difficult. And that's part of like, I can't, I can't do it. I can do legs on my own, but I needed my coach to sort of get me there on, especially back, like I have, I have a lot of trouble back, but like, I couldn't basically get sick doing legs. No problem. It's just like an easy, easy one to get. Right. But I dunno, I like chest a lot too. That's probably what I've been the most focused on improving recently, but it's all fun. I don't really, I've just been so consistent about the gym forever, but I like, I never sort of dragged or don't look forward to it. It's always like, I don't know, like I, I'm an, I'm an early morning person and just like part of why, part of why that is, is just like, I was really depressed. What is the only thing I like doing, going to the gym? What gets me to the gym faster going to bed early. So that's part of it. Part of it for me.

Jay:

I think having that routine is such a big part of fitness. Like if you, if you have a good routine and if that's like, Hey, going to bed early, going to the gym in the morning at a certain time, everything clicks so much easier. At least for me when I have a good routine in my life in general.

Brent:

Anything else we need to say? Any shout outs? J we should. I, this, once again, we're not a partial podcast. Cause we don't, we don't ask about the shout outs in an organized fashion. Are there, are there things we need to do here?

Jay:

No, I guess it can I, can I shout out my YouTube channel? Is that

Brent:

Absolutely. John jump in, man. It's marketing.

Jay:

Yeah. So I got a, I got a YouTube channel called Jay's advice. You can just search that on YouTube. And I cover a lot of the, the retro formats from Pokemon. So along with some history of the game, some funny stories is every now and then. So if you're you know, if you have any interest in that, it's an awesome, I checked me out and if you're a newer player and just kind of want to see what it was like back in the day, you might find some cool content there as well.

Brent:

And we'll be back next week with a extensive talk about how a Mike's telling people to run Oricorio and escape. Rope has turned me into once again, the incredibly boring dominant format destroying deck of the game.

Mike:

there you go.

Brent:

It's obviously so boring now. I mean, once again, we're back to like, you look at the, like every tournament it's like top four decks, like muse something else, new mew. And they all run like one or two escape ropes and they all run Oricorio and they're like,

Mike:

Yeah. The format has come full circle.

Brent:

Yeah. Yeah. So next week, we're going to talk about how, what dark decks can do to break the cycle of like escape, rope. Oricorio madness. I'm gonna need the answers guys.

Brit:

Yeah, escape route post the card of the week given seem.

Mike:

Yeah. Very cool. Well,

Brent:

I'll talk to you guys later. Thanks a lot, Jay. That

Jay:

Hey, thanks again guys. Bye.

Brent:

next week.

Brit:

Good week, everyone.