The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast

13-25 Best Pokemon Players in the World + Salt Lake City Strats

October 10, 2022 Brent Halliburton Season 1 Episode 105
The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast
13-25 Best Pokemon Players in the World + Salt Lake City Strats
Transcript
Brent:

I had, I had a, uh, um, brain explosion like three days ago where I was like, they should just print p pookahs cube and sell it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. As like a thing people would buy. And like, what I took away from my tweet was yeah, like everyone would buy it, right? Mm-hmm. like, it's, it's a alternate format thing. And in that way it's like, kind of like glc. That's like a fun thing to do with six to eight people and like you get to play Pokegear and there's card synergy and like, it's a different thing. People would love it.

Mike:

Yeah, that would be pretty sweet.

Brent:

It's like already play tested. It's already, you know, you got like endorsements, like, uh, so easy, so easy for Pokegear to just print, uh, like one of the best cubes in the game by one of their employee.

Mike:

I wonder like logistically, if it's like too big of a product, but I guess they do, some of their things are pretty, have a lot of cards in them, so maybe not. Yeah,

Brent:

like it, it's a little weird, but like it's, it's not weird in a bad way. Yeah. Right. And if somebody like rolled into a tournament and they were like, I have the Pook of cube, people would be like, This is a fun thing for us to do when we're not playing in the tournament. Right. Yeah.

Brit:

You know, I think those sorts of products are, are fun and particularly for like round Killing entertainment. Like even people would play Pokegear Rumble like in between rounds and that was like not really a game or anything, but it was something you could do with your Pokegear cards. Right. Um, Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good idea. I've always been, I don't know, too many examples of this. Like it's not, I don't think it's really something that magic does, but I, I talk about it a lot. Like the Old World of Warcraft card game had like raid battle decks, which were meant for that you could play even if you didn't play the card game. It was like one person played as the boss and then three people were trying to kill the boss. And it was, it was that kind of dynamic as a card game, and I, I always thought they were excellent. Very fun. Again, didn't really involve, like you could, you could make them interesting if you wanted to like start bringing in, you know, your own cards and your own rules and like in the same way you built Cube or makeup a format like glc. I'm sure you could, there were custom raids and stuff like that within the context of the card game. But yeah, I've always wanted to Pokegear to do stuff like that and like, so they're getting closer and closer to it. The more we have kind of this like steady stream of like casual product with like the Battle Academy things. Things like that. Like there's teaching products and eventually, you know, maybe we'll have this middle ground that isn't just the league battle decks versus like the, the starter stuff. Like, and I think that would be a good territory to explore something

Brent:

like that. Exactly. Like obviously they could start printing GLC decks if they're gonna start running GLC tournaments at like every single thing. Um, but, but the GLC decks much like, uh, conventional decks or decks that, like, they have to be updated every format, every set. Like there's new cards, there's new cards, there's new. Pika Cube is a standalone thing that kind of never changes, although may I recognize he does swap cards in and out, and if they publish that as like, you know, here's a 50 card update, people would go and buy it too.

Mike:

Right? Yeah. Like expansion pack type of thing. Yeah, yeah,

Brent:

yeah. Like everybody buys the expansion packs, right? So it kind of has a little bit of life and like it would be a thing. Anyway, it was a funny, uh, I was, um, I was a, I think mildly surprised at, at how many people thought, Yeah, I actually, this is worth liking this tweet. Alright guys. Lele, let me, uh, kick it off at welcome to the Trashalanche podcast. Everybody's favorite Pokegear podcast. Attendance is 100%. We've got Mike, we've got Brit, we've got me, Brent. We're all here. Uh, and we're, uh, ready to the thing. Um, Fivestar. Review. Update. No new reviews. We encourage you to leave a review. If you leave review, we will read it on the pod. Um, before we jump into Peoria and talk about the, or Salt Lake City and talk about the absolutely horrible mistake that my son is about to make, um, uh, shall we, uh, do some top 100 rankings, guys? Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah. We had a good start to the list last week. And now remind us what we're doing again. How

Brent:

many, All right, so we, we, we got up to 25 last week. So here's, here's the deal guys. We can go to, we can go to like the top 10 now. There is a logical break at 13. And then there's a, and then the next logical break is at five. So like, we could go to, you know, we could go down to like the 12th, we could go down to the 10th. We could go down to the fifth. What do you guys think?

Mike:

I'd say go to the 12th, like the first logical break. All right. All right,

Brent:

so, so, As we've said, the like 25 through 13, these players are very, very close, generally speaking. Um, so, so in that way there's like a little, you know, no prices, a little bit of fungibility. If, if this was like ESPN, they would be like, this is the tier, this like the tier of like not quite star or like not quite MVP or something like that. So in 25th, Andre ChuChu. Makes sense, the reigning world champion. He's gonna put Pokegear 24th. Ross Clin. People know where fans are. Ross on the pod. So, uh, uh, not surprising to see him, uh, making appear. He's fantastic. Uh, 23 former world champion, Diego Casa. 22nd, Pablo Mees. Yeah, another guy we're big fans of on the put, uh, always great to see. Uh, so, so like I look at these and I'm like, Yeah, these guys are all super good, and they could be almost in any order, and I would be like, Yeah, I believe that, Right? Mm-hmm. for sure. Uh, 21st. Brent Toon. Uh, uh, for me personally, I would say maybe a, maybe that's a schmid. Aggressive, but like, he's, he's very good.

Mike:

Yeah. Worth noting. I did see Brent. Throughout the last, like five years or so, has also been one of the best Hearthstone players in the world. Um, consistently gets ranked one legend on multiple of the servers. Hasn't had like a super great tournament, but is like one of the best ladder players and I think I saw him recently post that he is quitting playing competitive Hearthstone. And so that's scary for the Pokegear people because he was like one of the best Pokegear players in the world while also being one of the best players in the world in another game, And so, I, I'm sure like some of this time will go to more personal stuff, but he'll certainly have more time to play Pokegear, so watch out. Yeah.

Brent:

Yeah. And, and and yeah. He's the guy who's always throwing up like incredibly consistent results, right? Yeah. Uh, alright, now we're up to number 2020. Xander. Pero. Mm-hmm. Uh, everybody knows Xander Super good. Uh, in 19th, I feel like this shows a little bit of recency bias when you think about the names that we just went through on the list. Piper, Lele, Pine,

Mike:

Lele, Piper's awesome. Yeah. But if we're talking about like a current tier list, like Piper probably should be up there. She's had an amazing six months. Yeah.

Brent:

Yeah. She, she's just been stacking up, uh, uh, victories and like top eights and uh, day twos every single time. Uh, conversely though, when you talk about like recency bias, 18th Altavilla

Mike:

Hmm. Kind of the opposite.

Brent:

Yeah. Right, right. That's, that's, uh, you know, uh, you would say there, there's some like reputational voting there or something, right? Mm-hmm. uh, 17. Justin Biari. Hm. Justin's very good. Uh, 16. John Eng. Mm-hmm. And those two are like, their, their numbers are, make them virtually interchangeable. Most press mm-hmm. uh, 15 Alex Shamans.

Mike:

Yeah. Makes sense.

Brent:

Yep. And, and there's a little bit of a, of a differentiation here. Uh, so, so 14 and 13 are like a little bit better than the names that you just heard. 14 is Michael Prime a lot. Hmm. Winner of many, many regionals, uh, a consistently good player and, and 13th is Henry Brand.

Mike:

Nice NAIC. That's a good, that's a good section of the list. Like all of those names, you're like, those could have had different times, perhaps maybe a little bit in the past, a little bit in the future, depending on what regional couple regionals just happened. Like any of those names could be. In the top 10. Right, Right, right. Just kind of depends on when you're slicing it, I suppose.

Brent:

Yeah. Yeah. So the next, the next 12 all had dramatically higher scores and, and voting results than, than those guys, but yeah, I agree 100% like every name on that list, you're like, Yeah, those guys are good. If, if they didn't make a day two, I would be surprised. So. Mm-hmm. uh, um, super, super, uh, good players. As I said before, I recognize it's easy to imagine there's data problems here, but directionally it seemed pretty good. Mm-hmm. and a fun, fun way to pass a little bit of time doing. Yeah. Nothing else. That's fun analysis. Exactly. So we will be back next week with the top 12, or maybe we'll do like six through 12 or something, depending on how much we wanna drag it out. But, but we're gonna give, give people some more. That'll be good. Let's talk about, uh, Salt Lake City.

Mike:

So before we talk about like the meta, I didn't realize that there's Salt Lake next week or this weekend and then there's basically nothing for a while. Yeah. At least in North. Yeah. I think there's the one in eu, right? There's like uh,

Brit:

Warsaw

Mike:

one. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the next one. Um, Sure. I was gonna look that up.

Brent:

Yeah, no, you're totally right. Like we have the rest of October and November off and it's weird. Yeah.

Mike:

Oh, Poland is not until Nove. Okay. There's Little France. Yeah. We thought that one was next to, Yeah, that's the weekend after Salt Lake, and then there's one in Poland the second weekend of November. Um, but the, Yeah, that's, that's it. In the US there's nothing until Toronto. I mean, there is the a i c in between as well, but yeah, it's Salt Lake. And then nothing until the first weekend of December, which I did not realize how big that gap was. Which is really interesting that this format has essentially been condensed into about a month, like. There has been a lot of innovation and growth in the format, particularly because of the online scene. But it is weird that all, like the whole lost origin format is essentially a month long for, uh, North America and cuz cuz we'll get the new set before L aic. So it's a bit strange. Especially when you consider how long the Astro Radiance format was.

Brent:

Yeah. I, I don't think I had, uh, done that math. That's, uh, that's wild. Yeah.

Brit:

I just, I mean, I guess the probably simplest answer here is that the, like seasoned schedule is not being coordinated with the physical product release and like maybe it should like that, I mean, I mean, TP C is doing both of them, so it doesn't seem like they sh couldn't be communicating with each other. But that seems like just the most logical explanation to me. And also just why we got like, Right, like Astro Radiance was forever. Brilliant. Stars was really pretty long too. That's true. Um, yeah. And then just like awkwardly Philadelphia is the same format as worlds, and that like usually doesn't happen. I don't think, Maybe that's wrong actually.

Mike:

No, no. Baltimore, but yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what, Yeah, you're, I think it's happened like both ways. Like I remember I played Fort Wayne regionals like two weeks after Worlds, uh, the DY year, um, like right after that. And that was, The same format, I think, or

Brent:

might have been, they had just started doing and, and I, I liked this trend, and then they went and broke it where they do the rotation right before. Right, right, right, right,

Mike:

right. And so then, then the, then for sure, the first regional or two was always the same. Um, yeah. Right.

Brent:

That's true. Right. And, and I always thought that that was really good because it meant that, that like whatever, when they released the world's decks in the fall, those are. Theoretically you're, you're playing like standard format decks for basically the next like eight months, nine months. Mm-hmm. So in that way it seemed like a really, uh, I mean versus, uh, you know, people that, that were buying the world's decks and the world's decks were just like out of date cards. You couldn't play any of those cards.

Mike:

Right. Oh, that actually reminds me next week let's talk about what we think the world's decks would be, buddy. Yeah, I know. I dunno. Subject. Yeah, I know it's probably a very sensitive subject for you guys. So let's talk. We could talk about an hour. We can save it for future.

Brent:

I don't know how much you guys have to save about Pikarom. I'm happy to talk about

Mike:

it now. Okay. Okay. Do it. So, so obviously Liam won world and so he has a chance of getting his deck printed. However, I also know. Both of the juniors finalists were Pia as well, Correct. But the winner was an

Brent:

ice

Mike:

Rider Pia. Okay. The winner was an ice Rider Pia,

Brent:

I'm, I'm hoping that that matters. I don't know,

Mike:

do they, So, so obviously they're, they're gonna print Andre's Arceus Prime Pikachu. Right. That's for sure. They're gonna print at least one of the pals. And I guess a big question is, do they print one Pion and one Pia Ice Rider? I would think not, but I don't know.

Brent:

I I feel like, I mean, usually they do four decks, right? Yeah. Correct. So, so like what's funny is, yeah, I, I agree. They, they definitely print NAIC Dres. Cause why not mean if you gotta pit print a flying Peak ChuChu, you print the winners and then, and then what's funny is like there's a whole bunch of P decks and then there's a rabbit strike Urshifu, right? So I assume, Crazily, the rapids Jirachi food is a lock,

Mike:

right? Yeah, I think so. Is I think so too. Yep. very representative of the format.

Brent:

Exactly, Exactly. All these people are gonna go and buy a Rapids Jirachi food for the second place, seniors, because like it's a lock. They're gonna print that bizarrely. Um, yeah, so like what's weird is they have to squeeze out four decks. You either print another flying Pikachu, or you're gonna print two pals. And yeah, the junior winner played an ice Rider build and I'm like, hopefully that makes it different enough that they are just like, We'll do all the winners and Urshifu so

Mike:

well. So I don't know if you know the answer to some of these other things. So the in, in masters. The other top four decks were two more flying Pikachu and another pakia, so nothing too interesting there. Have they ever

Brent:

printed a third or fourth place deck? Yes.

Mike:

Mm-hmm. Um,

Brent:

Oh, I didn't know that. I feel like they have not done that recently.

Mike:

Yeah, I don't think so either, but it's definitely happened.

Brit:

Yeah, like 2016 maybe they printed like the Ninetails deck and I'm pretty sure that was just like seniors top four. Zacian. Pari, Yeah. Yeah. The little Bakari, right?

Mike:

Yeah. Um, so looking at, do you know the other two senior decks? So there's the one, there's the person that Liam beat in top four.

Brit:

That would be a good pick. You

Mike:

know what they're playing? It was a Japanese player.

Brent:

I wanna say it was Paia. It was,

Brit:

yeah. Didn't even win a Paia. Mew.

Mike:

Okay. And then there was a Brazilian person on the other side of the bracket that Sebastian beat. That I don't know. And then the other question would be, what were the other two juniors players playing as well? Cause if those. If there's any different deck in there, like a Mew maybe, I would say that's probably more likely than printing two different PIA decks. But if not, then I think it seems likely. I don't know if they would go all the way and dig into like top eight and take Andre Chi liaisons, Uh, Mew. I doubt that, but who knows?

Brent:

Uh, you know, So here's a question. Do they feel like, uh, printing the Japanese player's deck has like some marketing mojo because he's like a little bit of a celebrity in Japan? I don't really know, but like, like would, do you think inside of Pokegear, like I assume in Japan they are, they love that guy because apparently he's a big celebrity in Japan. Like, I wonder if there's internal pressure from Japan to be. You told me for that. He's awesome

Brit:

though. Like I don't, I've never seen like non-English versions of the world championship deck, so I don't know if like the whole world actually gets Yeah, I don't

Brent:

think they'd print them in Japan, but like I just wonder if there would be some sort of like, given that he is the only Japanese player, if there'd be like any sort of internal pressure and he's well regarded player. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, probably not, but I recognize like that's a consideration is. If, uh, um, if Matt Damon got to the world championships and lost in the finals, they'd be like, We're gonna print Matt Damon's deck. Cause Matt Damon It's weird. We'll print it. Let's go.

Mike:

Oh, I, it looks like they have the lists on the page. Okay. So, uh, okay. Okay. So the other two top four decks and seniors were Arceus. Flying Pikachu and Arceus Mewtwo. V-Union. So that could be Oh, that's

Brent:

right. Liam played. Liam played the Mewtwo V-Union deck. Wow.

Mike:

Yeah. So that's a possibility. In Juniors. The other two top fours were also Arceus Mewtwo and Arceus Inteleon.

Brent:

I wonder if they would say, Man, we wanna print that Mewtwo.

Mike:

They may. Um, and the

Brent:

Mewtwo is definitely a meme, you know.

Mike:

Yeah, it, it, you do run into a bit of the same issue in that they're already printing an Arceus deck. Do they want to print? And so in that case, obviously we know as competitive players that Arceus Flying Pikachu and Arceus Mewtwo are more different than P Inteleon and P Ice Rider. But I don't think there's that much of a difference in. Externally, like viewing from a packaging standpoint, if that makes sense.

Brent:

I also wonder if, if like the Pokegear people would would say, is a consideration, are we really gonna sell kids Mewtwo, V-Union decks? Like they're gonna sit down with that deck and they're gonna say, This deck's horrible.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah. I don't know what to do with this. Yeah, yeah. Hmm.

Brent:

Like, it's hard. It's hard to imagine. But yeah. Uh, you know, where. Um, very optimistic. Oh, you know what an argument, I guess, against printing the other finalist deck and masters is if they print the Japanese junior that won, like they got a Japanese deck. Right, Right, right, right, right. So I'm, I'm very, I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic that they're just gonna print all the winners in Urshifu. Yeah. And say that's fine. Um, But, but I was unaware that they ever stretched down to the top four, I guess, because 2016 was the last time they did, I, I was not paying super close attention at the

Mike:

time. Yeah, I'd have to go back and see. But it's happened, uh, a couple, definitely a couple times.

Brent:

Yeah. Very, very sad news. I was hoping that, uh, you know, we could really confine the problem space and just not give many outs.

Mike:

Let's

Brent:

see. Ice Path. Are you looking at the junior winner's list?

Mike:

No, no, no. I was looking at some of the old ones. So the 20 17 1 Zacian. Bocard did get his thing picked, but he won worlds. So that is not right or that's not like a top four person, but, Okay. But that year there was a top four in the juniors, like someone that lost in top four in juniors got their deck printed, for example. Yeah. Okay. So definitely has happened.

Brent:

Yeah. Uh, you know, obviously Walker got top four in what, 2018 and, but we spent zero time thinking about it. Robin one was basically like Right. Same 58. And we always knew, well, they're gonna print Robin's deck, so like, you know, that's a thing. Yeah. Even though we had filled out the, the paperwork, like they have everybody in top eight fill out the paperwork, but mm-hmm. you just know it's not

Mike:

gonna happen. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully, fingers crossed, it'd be very

Brent:

cool. I, I appreciate it would be, it would be very, uh, cool. Uh, uh, I mean, I, I give, like, I give so many little kids like random Pokegear. If, if I had that to handout, I'd be like, Yeah, that's the thing that I give out to every little kid I meet. Right,

Mike:

Yeah, yeah. You're gonna buy like 500 copies of it.

Brent:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean we obviously we're, we're friends with Alejandro and Guzman who came in second at Worlds in 2015 in Boston and they printed his primal ground deck and yeah, his dad is like, his dad is like, Is that as like cases of product in his basement?

Mike:

That's funny.

Brent:

Yeah. Like, yeah. Know. What do you, how could you not? I, I look forward to having case of product in my basement. Yeah. It's the absolute, uh, bomb, um, Salt Lake City guys. Yeah. Salt Lake City. So my son is working on super bad decks because he, like, I think he doesn't want to play any of the decks that did well for reasons both obvious and sad

Mike:

So you guys are going, Brit and I are not going, Um, when do you, when do you guys get in Brent? Uh, we, we

Brent:

get in, uh, Friday, like one o'clock-ish. Okay. We pretty early on the, uh, East coast we connected, so

Mike:

we was taking one day off, one day off school. Two days off school? Yeah. One. Okay. Nice.

Brent:

Is it is, Wait, is it one day off school or is it two days off school? You know, I, I, I definitely did realize. I've always said, we have it so easy when I was a parent of a senior, because like we knew that we could leave Sunday afternoon with impunity and it was no problems. Yeah. And now you're like, Well, should I book it for like Monday morning on the off chance that we're there all freaking day on Sunday and like flying from West coast to East coast. It's either red eye or there's like no flight. And I think the answer for us was like, No flights. You either have to like assume you're making day two and book it so, so, so late and horribly inconvenience. Or you like assume you're not gonna make day two and book it for like a reasonable time and then you're just completely hosted.

Mike:

Yeah. I just booked, uh, Texas flights because I was on there and it was pretty cheap and I found some directs and whatnot and. So I was lucky in that it's somewhat of a medium where my flight back is at four 30 on Sunday, so it's really only if I make top eight. Um, which, yeah, that's a pretty, Yeah, I think that's pretty ideal because if I make top eight, I'll have. Made my money back for sure if I need to make a new flight. But, uh, I still have the ability to play day two and not make top eight. Right, right. But that's not always possible, especially the further that you have to fly. Yeah.

Brent:

Yeah. It is, uh, interesting and absolutely, uh, baffling to me. Yeah. What did I end up doing? You know, I might have, I might have booked it for Monday morning, like a lun. Yep. I booked him for 7:00 AM Monday morning. Nice.

Mike:

Well then we definitely need to get Liam to play a real deck. So Yeah, guys too. And doesn't waste it. Help help

Brent:

a brother out. Help a brother

Mike:

out. All right, so I, I think maybe the first thing we should talk about is, um, Blissey,

Brent:

Blissey. Uh, I have really enjoyed watching Blissey tear up late night tournament. Yeah,

Mike:

It's a very interesting phenomena to see going on, like all of a sudden, and the lists are not super different, but there's definitely some innovation. There's very heavy Avery, more melt tanks than before. Some list are playing, uh, chorus. Some of the more recent list are playing chorus, which is cool. Um, but some are not. I think some are starting to play tornado again because of ice cube popping up. Um, and I don't know if this is just like an online meta reaction thing, and then once. The actual tournament comes, like people won't play those texts. Uh, but I do think Blissey will be played, not like the most popular deck or anything, but I think it'll be like 10%, 8% of the meta. I think it's like something to be, I think it should be on your radar if you're thinking, if you're going to salt.

Brit:

Yeah, I think Blissey is interesting. I think one of the, one of the things, at least the way that I see it, that is contributing towards spy, just being vi viable again, is just drap on. Which is interesting because, um, obviously Blissey doesn't really play it, but I think Mew just sort of being in this. Sort of finally off its foot a little bit in the meta, in the meta game within the context of all the other decks. Like I still think like Mew, you know, if I had to guess, Muse's probably gonna see a lot less play, relatively less play in Salt Lake City than uh, Peoria. Um, but I still think every deck is still gonna bring Drap on, regardless. Regardless of if that statement is true or not. I think Drap down is just like too strong for some of these fringier decks like not to include. Um, and Blissey, I think always has. Struggled a little bit in the Mew match,

Brent:

particularly

Brit:

in, I think the DTE one is, is difficult cuz they just don't miss a beat. And, you know, older incarnations of Blissey would play veal and that's like sort of always your, um, your problem solver versus the old, old fusion strike versions of the deck. Um, but I think that's a big factor why less Mew or at least more decks that are beating Mew very consistently. And so I would guess the Mew match is still. A little shaky. I'm not, I guess would maybe have to think about a few other things, but in general, I think Blissey is just good. And also like fringe decks, like ded on that would've stopped Blissey in before. Don't really exist right now either. Um, so that would be another thing to look out for potentially.

Mike:

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good point about its Mew matchup. Um, cuz otherwise, yeah, it's pretty good against, uh, the lost box stuff. At least the toward type of version. I think we've seen lost box decks try to evolve, like with the ice cube for example. But, uh, Blissey can do stuff against that as well. Um, so it's like pretty good into that. It's not. Too bad against Pakia. It's like pretty decent against Pia. It's not great against Kru because they can one shot you, but Blissey does play four Path, so could go either way. Um, but yeah, I mean I think it's, uh, I think tanky decks are in a decent spot right now. And that kind of brings me to the other tanky deck that I think is in a pretty good spot, which is Arceus Gure, Um, and. Like, that's also very, is pretty good against paia. It's pretty good against lost zone, uh, box decks. It's somewhat straightforward, but I think it's also in a pretty good spot. Hasn't had the overwhelming success online that Blissey has, but it seems good to me.

Brent:

I, it said, you know, like, it hasn't had the, like first places, but I feel like it's had the like, like tons of quiet top eight-ish kind of like Mew. Mm-hmm. Yeah, everybody sees it doing well. Yeah. It's been hard

Brit:

to keep track of just how the Char Arceus boxes have been evolving. Like I, I think, I think they, it's been pretty good. Like I don't, I don't think it's these, it's changes that will be relegated only to the online play. Like I would think some of these lists are definitely gonna day two in Salt Lake City. I think it was prem, I believe in Peoria. I think one of the cool things he was doing in his list was he was playing the twin energy for Snorlax. And I think when you start doing that, potentially even playing more, And even the second Snorlax, it opens yourself up to being able to play like other cards that can utilize the twin energy. And so naturally that's a good card for Char Art, getting the Char r KO faster, uh, turn two faster with, um, the Mew Basin and so on. But like we see Miltank and some of these lists, IQ as we've mentioned before, becomes, uh, um, a card. Even, uh, Reggie Gigis itself is being played a little bit, um, just. Wpa, AUM of VMax after some stable idea. Did it all. It all seems really good to me. Um, I'd have to think a little bit on like if it's probably just better. I think, I think the problem, or at least comparing them to the GU list is just like GU is like, Again, kind of like your problem solver in these key matchups, but it's like such a liability, um, in other matchups or if you accidentally see it early, open with it and things like that. You just sort of, in a lot of circumstances are already kind of taken out of your ability to play the prize game that you want. Um, and I, I get sort of get the sense that like if, if these, these toolbox versions just keep including answers to other things like, um, Like, I don't know, like the Reggie Geus or something like that. It just seems much better to me if you can include enough cards that are doing what, um, T's doing anyways then like why, why would you need to play it? And it also sort of keeps you off of Mirage Gate, which is strange, like it was such a broken, such a powerful seeming card, but it's just not necessary. Almost. It seems that the, these minimal energy attackers and the list are playing a lot more ryon too. Like I have seen two in these lists with the twin energy. Um, it seems really strong to me. I think that's definitely the deck I would be looking the most about, but I do. Historically, like the defensive deck. So maybe rcs would be up my alley. But yeah, I think the real adaptations, not just online ones, I guess is the point I'm trying to make. Be be ready for iq. Mm-hmm. funnier things in these decks now

Mike:

Um, yeah, so you hit on, uh, so Jeremy Gibson won the late night last week with the weird Mirage Gate lost box, single Prizer deck. I think he said that. He got it from Catron. I think maybe like,

Brit:

I think a lot of the lists are coming out out of

Mike:

him. Yeah. Um, and as you mentioned it, it runs like double Snorlax. It ran Ice Cube, ran Reggie Gigis. And I do think that while that won't be like the most popular lost box version, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bunch of decent to good players that bring some. Mirage Gatey spin to a single prize lost zone deck. Um, and I feel like a lot of people initially were talking about playing some of those crazy cards, like Amazing Ray Raku and Amazing Ray KO and stuff like that. And that's just like so many colors. And I feel like Jeremy and Catron List is just like you run colorless Pokegear, you still have the Charizard. Um, Snorlax is just a really, really good card against other lost box decks and it's colorless. So, you know, you don't, you're not forced to play in a certain energy type and it just seems more consistent. And Reggie Geus is another good example of that. So colorless Pokegear only takes, can take any energy. Um, it's just, uh, it's more consistent when you don't have to do those crazy things.

Brent:

Um, Do you think now that we're a couple of weeks removed, like generally speaking, Reggies is not gonna be played much anymore?

Mike:

I think it'll be played probably about the same, but not by the same quality of player. That

Brent:

would be my,

Brit:

Yeah, that's, I like by take. I was definitely gonna, I definitely agree on the first point and yeah, but I also, I also don't see any really top players playing it

Brent:

again.

Mike:

Yeah. The fact that, you know, the people did well, but nobody did really well. You know, all those players that played it, the top players that played it, they don't wanna make top 16 or top 32. They wanna win, right? And so, yeah, they don't probably don't wanna play a deck where they don't think they can win the event. And I don't think Reggie's isn't a spot really right now to really be favored to win an event. Oh, so it is worth noting I unlimited this. You can, obviously there's a lot of, um, not great data here, but you can sort by the win percentage within the timeframe. And so with decks that have at least 150 games, Blissey has the highest win percentage, then Arceus Gure, and then Pia Inteleon. So that's worth worth some note. Um, Blissey and Arceus Gure are. Definitely good decks on paper. Um, and I think I heard Mewtwo, uh, in one of his videos, he pointed out that Arceus Gure was the highest day two conversion rate. Something like two thirds of the Arceus Gures from day one made day two in Peoria, which is really impressive. Um, and so Arceus, Udra and Blissey to me also kind of seemed like Ds. Probably don't have like the greatest chance of winning, but are probably pretty safe plays to get points and make day two. I don't know how good the day two meta will be for them though.

Brent:

That makes sense. So, So if you were going like, what's the play?

Mike:

I would probably play Pia Inteleon still, I haven't, um, I haven't done like a ton of testing in the last week. I've messed around with vehicle Boltund a little bit more. I've played around with a little bit of the lost box stuff. Mostly I was just trying towards list, um, just to get better at playing it. But I dunno, I think p is still super, super safe. I would not play a Dion and I would have probably in Peoria, but I would not play D Dron this time. I would consider playing quick shooting plus Crobat abominable for the Blissey and guru matchup. I don't know if I would pull the trigger on it, but I would consider it, and I think I would play canceling cologne because I feel like as the lost box decks become a little more stretched and a little more versatile, they'll probably end up cutting to one mani. Just for space and for more options. And so I think canceling cologne becomes significantly better if that's the case and is a way to really jump ahead in that matchup. So I'd probably just play PA

Brent:

Fair enough, Fair enough.

Brit:

Yeah. Hard to, hard to knock out. You doesn't, doesn't ever really feel bad against anything like, Don't know. Yeah, just seems like, like, I don't know. Do you still play the seven HP levels probably, Or do you just kind of like just not even bother?

Brent:

This is, This is the

Mike:

real question. Yeah, that's a real, That's a really good question. I played in the late night last week and there was multiple games where I wished I had keep calling. But I also beat a lost box because they were one damage counter short because I had the 70 HP BLE So like I've had it both ways. It's so, it can be really bad to not have the keep calling, but I think you probably just need to play 70 HP samples. To really keep your parody in the lost box matchup. I know for sure I would not be playing Kru, Pia. I think Kru Pia will still be a pretty popular choice, but not nearly as popular as it was in Peoria. Maybe like the third or fourth most popular deck instead of

Brent:

the first.

Mike:

So do you guys think that, so Guino was the most popular lost zone deck. It was almost, if I remember correctly, it was almost double the amount of Guino to compared to lost zone box. Do you think Guino was still be the most popular, just like a smaller gap, or do you think Lost Home Box will be more popular?

The

Brit:

last box will be more popular, both that it's proven in the real tournament already. Um, you know, we talked a little bit about this last week, sentiments from John and Justin, that group that like, they thought it was better and they just didn't crack it in time. Um, and so something like that I would think, and also too, just like Gu might be like just the obvious one, like you looking at the cards of lost origin, like you wanna start with the star or something and not this like weird little deck that plays three Sableye, two Cramorant and like nothing else. Um, but yeah, I think just kind of more so on the sort of proven results. Um, I would definitely expect way more, not way more comparatively, but in terms of how much the toolbox was in Peoria, um, I would, I would say one, one other point too. I would, I would guess too, there was a fair amount of like not great lists of the lost box still being played, like people played the cologne version and probably didn't do great. Um, and so like that, that there's a publicly available, like improved version from that, that's like a beat or two ahead of these meta games. Like that would just compound it for me. Like I think you're both of them. Top two most played decks, I would guess. Um, something like that. But yeah, I would, I would guess more lost box. Think you're a Tina this time around.

Brent:

Yeah, obviously I, I would agree. Are there are. When you think about where it goes from here, are there things that people put in their lost box deck to improve the mirror match? Like is it just Snorlax or like are there, are there other tricks as far as like where that deck evolves to take it to the top In Salt Lake, assuming a bunch of people show up, playing something like towards list.

Brit:

Yeah, Snorlax is big. I think it just like almost always trades up for you and like a lot of that matchup is just trades trading back and forth. And so going first makes a big deal usually just cuz I'm, or rather going second probably in the mirror. So you can attack first with Cramorant and just like get ahead in the prize race.

Mike:

Um, Zigzagoon might be pretty, I was gonna say yeah, cuz you can like take a double KO on KO out of nowhere potentially.

Brent:

Yeah. Yeah. That, that was my reaction too is I recognized toward didn't play the Zigzagoon, but it seems like Zigzagoon would be, uh, more popular

Mike:

going I think. I think I heard some, Someone told me that on Stream recently when Toward was streaming. He said that going forward, I think the deck. Needs to play, like needs to play goon and maybe echoing horn. I think he was able to get away with it because everyone kind of just assumed that he did have them during that tournament, Um, and so they were playing around those cards. But, uh, if people know not to, then they can play quite differently. Right.

Brent:

Any other things people can do besides Snorlax and Zigzagoon to improve that, uh, mirror match? Uh, besides go second.

Mike:

Um, I mean, so I know like some of the lists, as Brit mentioned, have been playing ice cube for the Blissey. And Reggie matchup, like if you really wanted to go deep, you can run ice cube plus wash energy and then scoop up the rest of your board. I guess that works. And then you're protected against Sableye. But, uh, I don't think that's a very realistic thing to do. Yeah. Uh, I think the v Boltund, well, Al does not really, You were asking for the mirror, I think like v. It's kind of interesting. It can beat lost box stuff, but it's just not good enough. I don't think. Like I've tested it a little bit, but I'm not convinced if I was going, maybe I would've put more effort into it. But where I'm at right now, it's not good enough.

Brent:

Yeah. You know, I know we've talked about this before, but you'd like to think that item locks in a good place because the carpool's never gonna be bigger, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're, they're, they've let the cardpool swell so much. People are just encouraged to play. And I think decks reflect this now. Like there's so many good cards. People play lots of items and not a lot of supporters because why would I play a sporter when I could play a good item?

Mike:

Yeah, it's true. Um, I think like the fact that, uh, toward played for Switch card, I think is pretty, that's already pretty good in the mirror, right? Because you can mess up their math pretty significantly. And I think that's part of what makes Zigzagoon so good is because if you're being preemptive against Com fees and maybe just dropping like two damage counters on each of them, then they go like double switch cart, heal it all off. You've kind of lost a turn there. Um, so I think like plain switch cart over. Other switching cards or prioritizing maxing out switch card over like the fourth escape rope or, um, thing. Other things like that. If you have to make cuts on your switching count, I think switch cards probably not the one to cut.

Brent:

Yeah, I, I can see how, I can see how in the mirror that's a, uh, uh, a helpful card. Yeah. People, people that try to get cute, get punished. Yeah.

Mike:

Um, only other deck that I think is kind of interesting and on my radar a little bit. I don't super respect it, but, uh, I haven't played it. So is the historian Zoroark, I feel like the lists have gotten a lot better, uh, and they're more consistent, but it's still, every time I look at the deck, I'm like, Man, this is just like missing something though, to be really.

Brent:

Uh, I, I kind of feel the same way. Brit, it looks like you're about to jump in. I, I feel like, uh, it's, it was obviously the deck that outperformed a Peoria, so everybody is like, Well, you should pick up and test that. Or you're, or you're like, Not smart, but like, I look at it, I'm like, No. That seemed great.

Brit:

Yeah. I don't really get it either. Like, especially, I don't know like how many of the lists have really gravitated away from Napoleon or still playing it. It seems like there was a pretty decent split of both, um, in the Peoria lists. Um, but yeah, it's just like it's really strong back. I do think it has. Decent loss box matchup. Um, just because you use your damage pumps and can kind of control what they can do a little bit. Um, and some of the matchups, I know it's bad against, like, probably won't be as popular, so like I don't think it doesn't have a very good, um, Reggie's matchup, like those matchups are bad. Um, I don't know how it does against you, I guess it's okay. Um, you can one shot them I suppose, but it still seems like you can get blown up in that matchup going second. Um, Yeah, Yeah, yeah. At least in terms of like other things too, it just like, you don't have your big power specs come from early bog and like you can just whiff early bog. There's nothing, there's nothing in your tech that finds it for you or anything. And like, I believe that's what happened in top eight. Just didn't see them in the, in the third game and just like proceeded to do nothing without the, without the sort of real damage output. It's a good deck, like I'm sure it will make day two. It's probably pretty strong the more tanky decks there are, since your damage ceiling is so high. Um, but I don't know. Can you, is it one shot gora still? Is that enough? Be tough?

Mike:

No. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah. It's also like it's, HP is just like a little too small, especially when you have to put two damage counters on your own. So like you're, you're, you have to assume pretty much that you're always getting one shot back versus some decks like against Mew, they're probably always one shot in you back, uh, hockey. They're always one shot in you back. So you always have to kind of be ahead in the price trade, which is not the best spot to be in. Um, one other deck that. I felt like got a lot of hype at the beginning and then hasn't seen anything as like the Aines or Arceus deck, and I wonder if that's just because it's so bad into lost own box. That has to be my only assumption. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Brit:

Kevin Clemente played an interesting RCS deck. I guess we can close with. Pretty cool. It was like our, the typical, their, um, usual Mew with rcs, but with, uh, Pikachu and, uh, Arceus slash VMax was, was the Melmetal Pokegear of choice. And just like you gotta have your normal path and prey Pikachu for lightning stuff and the Arceus slash slash kills Kira for you. And it just also just does bigger damage in the end game.

Mike:

Uh, NR slash v deals with Miltank, so that's cool. Great. Um, seems interesting. Flying Pikachu like could be. Yeah. Flying Pikachu in general I feel like could be kind of good at this tournament. I hadn't thought about it really. Um, maybe you play like a parasol to put on the flying Pikachu, so it protects it against Sableye. Could be decent. Yeah, Marty is good. Marty's just really good against lost stone, um, box as well. So maybe you don't even need parasol. You're just like going with Arceus and flying Pikachu. You Marty them four times and hopefully they don't draw what they need every single time. Yeah.

Brent:

Yeah. All right guys, fantastic. Jon. Pauls are as always our outro. We'll talk to you guys after Salt Lake City.