Okay, uh, welcome to the, the Trashalanche. Our, our changing zoom thing has kind of ruined the filter in, but the podcast is here. As always, the tennis remains a hundred percent Brit Pybas, Mike Fouchet, Brent Halliburton, uh, uh, things people need to know. Uh, there's no new five star review update, but if you leave a review, we will read it on the pod. Uh, it's our commitment to you. Clearly, your commitment to us would be leaving more reviews. Uh, dragon Shield is sponsoring the pod changing people's decks one sleeve at a time. We appreciate the, the fact they sent us a bunch of Dragon Shield sleeves. Very much because as any Pokegear player knows, getting sleeves, man, that, that's the whole business right there. Um, so we have a lot of tournaments to talk about. I thought the first tournament we should talk about is the most important tournament because it's the tournament that Mike won. Mike, congratulations. I'm gonna dub this week.
Mike:Thank you. Yeah, I talked about the retro events that happen each week. Last week I got in top four at the previous two, and then I finally got the W this past week. It was the 2014 worlds format. That is a format that I really did not, I didn't really play that year at all. I think I played, um, I played a state championship that year. That might have been it throughout the whole year, maybe. I played a city and then I played nationals that year and didn't do good, and then I played the grinder, but with a deck that I didn't really like very much. And so I ended up playing Ross's World's deck, which was like a lander cx, Raichu drift, bl fox type of deck, which is pretty fun. And yeah, I got the win, which is a good time.
Brent:So what, what deck did you play at Worlds that year?
Mike:Ipl, well, so I didn't play Worlds, but the Grindr I, oh, the Grinder ied, um, aroma Plasma. So Brit, you're probably familiar with this deck. Um, it's what, like, Bianchi and Virgil and Omar were all super into, I think one of them almost made top eight at Nationals that year with it.
Brit:Bianci and Omar both did very well. I think like top 32, top
Mike:16, I think. Yeah. Um, so I. Didn't really, I didn't really talk to them about the deck before Nationals, but in between nationals and the Grinder, uh, I had spoken with them and it seemed like a fun deck. And like I said, I wasn't really playing very much. So, uh, I kind of just went with that and I did very poorly in the Grinder.
Brit:Yeah. I like that deck a lot. That was, I didn't play it for Worlds that year. Um, but like that was, that was Mac's deck that year. It was, there was a ton of different ways to build it. And it was very interesting. Like you had the Omar and the, like the team artist was more just like tool boxy, but you could have, like, they were also variants that played Gensec and Plasma energy and sometimes even G Booster. I, I played someone with all those cards in Su in fact. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that was, that was what I wish I had played that year. Hmm. What did you play? I played Flagon Miltank. Which was Frank Diaz made top 16 with it at Nationals. Mm-hmm. um, and kind of just like, I think could have done better, had like, didn't know his, like his, he, he up against, uh, VG in, in top cut and didn't know his opponent, like played a Max Palkia and he just got crushed by it. And I, I think if he had seen it coming, he would've won. Mm-hmm. I mean, perhaps could've gone further, but Yeah, it was just like Dustin, Dustin Zimmerman played it too, and I think Kyle Sable house played it as well. I think it was just, just Dustin and I on the list, but it was a couple of us kind of talking together just after seeing Frank do well with it. But it was just like, I'm try to even remember what all it played other than like, flagon is of the sort of like Flagon Accelerator fame. It was just like when it's active, it does 10 damage to all your opponent's Pokegear between turns. Um, and then you have Dusknoir from Boundaries Cross, which just in ability lets you manipulate your opponent's damage counters as often as you'd like. So it's just a spread deck where you, and you used Dusknoir to kind of take the knockouts and then Miltank was just like a really efficient attacker. It was a one prizer that did 90 for one if you had a stage two in play. Yeah, I think that's, and then so with, uh, muscle Band and things like that, it, it hit big efficiently. I didn't do very well. I forget how I finished. I, I dropped at some point, but, um, I don't think anyone did well with it, so it probably wasn't a very good deck, at least for that event. But it was just like a weird deck and I, like, I tend to gravitate towards those at, at a fault.
Brent:Uh, you know, the, the, I think one of the most notable things about that is, um, Uh, how Ner is a singularly interesting card that Pokegear has not really tried to reprint even though everyone loved it. Hmm.
Brit:Probably too good. That's probably the reason why we, we don't see it. We've never seen the ability reprinted so powerfully. Like we get lots of effects that can do that. Like radia, I probably being the most recent one, but, but yeah, I would, that would be my guess. It's, it's very, very, very good and I think like is occasionally fine and expanded. Like I know Mia uh, I guess should she still be able to compete, would probably be playing it no matter what stuff.
Brent:I mean, obviously Mia would still be playing, it probably would
Brit:be doing fine. Like, I, I think it, it remains a option even, even if there isn't necessarily an archetype that gets attached to it. Yeah, it was definitely a powerful card and, you know, saw playing lots of different decks, but usually interestingly enough, like stage two ones. And so in a format that even back then was still mostly like big basics. Like, I think it just, it shows you like your stage twos need to be this kind of good to, to compete with big basics. And that's true now. Like you've gotten Inteleon and that's about it. So on.
Brent:Yeah. Uh, it, it is, it is crazy that like there's a card that everyone knows and, you know, uh, uh, despite the fact that they just reprint cards like crazy, they would never reprint that one. Yeah. absolutely delightful card. That was our first year playing, so I very fond, uh, memories of 2014. Oh, nice. That. I mean, I, I think I, I'm sure I've talked about this before, but yeah, that, like, that was the thing that really started us on our journey was Liam won the Grinder as a, as a junior.
Mike:Oh, right. Because it was in dc
Brent:and then we were like, well, I mean, you can't count on winning the grinder next year. We gotta go on the grind to like get another invite, It's like you can't get an invite and then not get an invite. Mm-hmm. and, and then we were on the grind.
Mike:That is one of the cool things about worlds moving around all the time and how that wasn't always the case. Like Worlds was kind of like Florida, California, Hawaii for many years. And now it's kind of been moving around because, and that's nice because you have someone like you who got into the game probably in large part because World was in your backyard, and then that happened and then it kind of snowballed from there. Like, if world is not in DC that year, who knows? Maybe you don't get, maybe you guys don't get
Brent:100%. Yeah, 100%. Like would we have, would we have found out, like we had never even gone to a regional before we went to Worlds. Right. Yeah, like, like we were so like sheltered and, and like props to Pokegear for bringing it back. I mean, after that world that like, that was the last year they had the grinder. Mm-hmm. and um, and I guess the year after, like then it was Boston and then it was San Francisco. And San Francisco really started the trend of, or actually I guess Boston started the trend because they had the whole gun incident, like needing spectator badges and like closely limiting crowd Vileplume in and out of the venue. And London Worlds, I think was the first time since 2014 that you felt like there were all these people from the community who came out and got in touch with Pokegear, you know? Mm-hmm. like the huge lines of just random people from England who were going to the Pokegear Pokegear Center. Uh, uh, I think, I think even for competitors, uh, while it made it a little crazy, like it was exciting to know that it was exciting for London. You know?
Mike:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brent:Um, so when, what is the next Riley's retro, so
Mike:they're running to this week actually, uh, on Thursday is Worlds 2013, which is a bit of an awkward one I feel like, to run because for two reasons. One, there's a bunch of cards that are legal from, uh, like really early sets in black and white that are kind of hard to get. For example, like, uh, like Tel for example, this is like, that's a really old card, um, for PTCGO and two Brit, correct me if I'm wrong, capture was not on a flip in 20.
Brit:No. Yeah, it changed at the first, at the first region, the fall regionals for,
Brent:yeah. Yeah. Cause cause I, I know we were, we were as people who were new to the game, like totally baffled by the fact that there were like some catchers that didn't have Right. some catchers did. It was like, well, what do you, we should barely play the ones that you don't have to fly. Yeah. Any
Brit:question? Let's just like block, like a suppressed memory for the community. We just try, we forget that we had to like, that, that was a, a format for like a, a year or
Mike:so. When, when I was, when I saw that they were gonna run the 2013 Worlds, I was actually thinking about making a post on Twitter of like, What are the five biggest mistakes that Pokegear has ever made design-wise? And I feel like catcher without a flip might be number one. Like that is so bad.
Brit:Best of wind reprint. Yeah. I mean, when you look at the black and white set, there's just like, they, they, they very clearly were trying to cap capture like some base set stuff again. Cause like that's when we got Juniper again and mm-hmm. things like that. And you know, of course Gust of Wind. Um, and it's also, we got a crushing hammerer I think in, in the same set too. And that, that was a, you know, energy removal too had been printed a couple times, but that was the first time we had had it back in a while, if I remember right.
Mike:Yeah. And it's particularly funny if there, if they did come out in the same set, they were like, you know, crushing energy removal was way too strong, but gust of wind, that's totally okay.
Brit:And what, what I think wilder to me, or the fact that I, I, I think about a lot in, in regards to the catcher format is that, uh, Electro, uh, electric, um, was, was very good like in a format with Lands EX and like electric was still good. Um, dynamo, like even against all these things, you had 30 HP Dynamos and catchers, and Krus being able to do 30 and Landus was being able to do 30 and it was still like so powerful and like even could even beat big basics consistently, like if running, if you had the list right. Which kind of got solved by regionals that year. But yeah, I would have to, I'd have to chew pretty long on top five design mistakes since I've been playing. I've talked about it before, but like m or I mentioned it in our group chat once, but Mew, VMax is really up there for me. I just, there's just something about it that I just like, I can't get over. It's such a, it's such a bad offender for me. Like the, the example I used, it was just like, in another one I complained about is Night March, but like Mew is just like, what if night March like had a Pokegear that like discarded night marchers for you and, and like a supporter too or something. It would just have to be like, it would be like, that's the closest you could get and it's just like, it's just so frustrating and you know, I think we've maybe finally turned the corner on mute, just being okay, which is fine. But even still, it's just, just frustrating design for me.
Mike:Yeah. Maybe we can think about that. Top five Worst designs. Um, so 2013 World is this Thursday? I'm not sure if I'll play in that one just because like I said, it's awkward. You're not really playing the format for real since you're not. I mean, I like the format's totally different with Korrina flip, right? Like the, the decks that did well might not even be the best deck anymore. Um, but inevitably people will just play lists from that year because that's, nobody wants to think too hard about it. It's a pretty,
Brit:it's a pretty heavy beach year too. There's like, yeah, that's,
Brent:I was about to say guys, I have four PTCGO beaches. Mm-hmm. don't, listeners don't go unlike me hacking my PTCGO account or something. But like yeah, that's a thing. You let me know.
Mike:I have, I have beaches as well online. Um, at some point I'll tell you the story about how I got them cuz it's pretty funny, but not right now. Um, and then they're actually running a second retro event on Saturday, like during the day on Saturday. And I think they're doing 2019 NAIC format. So that's the one that Stefan won, right? With Zoroark Dugong. That's good format. Yeah. Um, but so since it's on a Saturday during the day, I don't know if I'll play that one. If they had switched them like 2019 was on Thursday, I would definitely play that. But I dunno, I also didn't play in 2019. Um, like I didn't play that season very much, so I don't really know that format very well. Uh, so I'd be interested to mess around with it. Yeah. I didn't play it all that
Brit:year. It was just Pikarom and tag team stuff, I think. Yeah. And well also zark stuff still being viable,
Mike:right? It's like Zoroark Pikarom, uh, first iteration of Green's reheard, I think like there's some like Vileplume control stuff.
Brent:Um, so the, the last question I wanted to ask you about your, your big retro win is, uh, you, the deck you played was like heavily teched out right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did you know what all the texts were for
Mike:That is a good question. Uh, no
Brent:Were there, were there cards that were, the deck that you were like, I don't know when I'm supposed to use, but I'm gonna leave it in cuz just in case then I'll know.
Mike:So the only one that is like the real big offender ever was Kira EX. So there's a water EX that was, I didn't play water energy. It's only a tech that I could use was outrage. 30 plus 10 for each, on it, for a, a double color list. Um, and I really wasn't sure. I messaged Ross like halfway through the tournament. I'm like, why am I playing this card? And he is like, I don't really remember Um, but we figured out that it was for, um, mirror Landis.
Brent:That's what I was about. I was about to say it's the, it's the, it's because it Landers can't KO it. Yeah. And you don't want to just like be trading hits with it, right?
Mike:Yeah. Yeah. So it was for Miri Landis, but I did not know that for a while. The actual use case I got out of it in the tournament though, was I played against a Flareon deck and with a muscle band it just Kos Flareon. Um, I also didn't realize until that match against Flareon, or not realized, but I just forgot that Muscle Band is not like a Choice Belt or a choice band. It does 20 to everything, more And I was like, oh yeah, muscle Band was a great
Brent:card. Muscle Band was a great
Mike:card. Muscle Band is really good. And that's why I'm really glad that we don't have anything like muscle bands, um, like I'd much rather have the Choice Belt type of stuff. Um, because doing 20 more to anything I think was a little bit too strong.
Brent:So the, the first ever tournament Liam competed in like. Tournament ever competed in was the Maryland State Championship. I don't know if you went to the Maryland State Championship, uh, uh, that year. I, I guess you weren't playing that much, so it was not a thing. Probably
Mike:not. This was 20, like before 2014 worlds. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't have gone. Um,
Brent:uh, and, and we showed up and I knew that like, the card that was supposed to be in his deck that we just didn't own was like one muscle band. So we tried to put in one plus power because we didn't really understand how like, certain cards were outta format. Like we knew this was a, a good list and we were supposed to have a muscle band, but we were like, well, we have this plus power card. It's kind of like a muscle band. We'll just put it in. That's, and that is how we learned about how formats work. Yeah.
Mike:That's funny. was a pretty expensive card at the time.
Brent:Yeah. Like, it, it, it was like just printed like right at that moment. Mm-hmm. uh, um. Right. Cuz it, it, it came out with. I guess like veto or something? Yeah, it was like one that came out. So, uh, uh, yeah, so we had the very, very good fortune of like they had, they were deck checking all the juniors before the tournament started. Hmm. Nice. And, and we were like, and they were like, this is not a real card And then some guy was like, I will give you a muscle band
Mike:Oh, that's nice. That's good. Yeah. Yeah.
Brent:Uh, uh, super worked out, uh, super well for us. Um, alright guys, let's talk about, uh, San Diego. A any, uh, any big picture reactions?
Mike:So my big picture reaction is that, well, lemme just look it up, but my big picture reaction is it was Reggie time Well guess and no right, like a lot of the top players played Reggie, but just the results of the top eight. There was seven different decks in top eight. Um, we had vial winning, Mew coming in second. Arceus de aldon. And Lawson box, like Rayquaza Lawson in top four. And then we had the Arceus Toolbox, ugia, and another Lawson deck. Um, and this is really the first event in this format that is not dominated by Lucia or dominated by like Lugia counters, like hard Lugia counters. This top eight is varied and all of the decks are just like good decks, more or less in their, in their own right. Um, the only one that you could maybe say is like a hard counter to Lugia is Vic Boltund. Um, but I feel like despite Brit and i's like resistance to the deck, maybe it's just like a good deck in this format because it just has good matchups. Um, and it has like a pretty strong engine, which I, I think, um, all of these decks have their own unique strong engine. Um, so I'm kind of taking away from this that like Lugia is still obviously the center of the format, but I'm really interested to see where the format goes now because there's not, like, all of these decks are just good decks and none of them are Lugia counters specifically. They're just, the format just kind of feels open, more open now.
Brent:I, I thought I, I feel like both VECA and Aldon are pretty hardish counters. Is that like, so, uh, I felt like bef uh, last week I said. You know, people are gonna try to just run like the most vanilla, super consistent Lugia is now they're all gonna run a bunch of capturing aromas because apparently that's a thing. Mm-hmm. and, and like, and they're, and you know, San Diego will be won by somebody playing like Super Jan Deck because it's time for like Jan Deck to make a comeback. And I feel like I, you know, as always, the podcast is 100% correct and we can never go back and really check against the record because there's no record. I felt like it was just a wave of janky stuff and like, I mean, I think people think the Reggie's matchup against Lucia is like pretty good.
Mike:Yeah. I mean, I think if you're not playing Dun sparse, the matchup is definitely good for Reggie's. I think with Dun sparse and Manatee. Probably slightly Lugia favored, but it's still pretty
Brent:close. Yeah. But, uh, but that's, I just don't think people, like, I don't think that many people played Dun sparse, right? Like, I think they were, I mean, everybody that, you know, uh, uh, I mean, I guess two weeks ago or something, we were talking about how you, or three weeks ago it was like, you gotta pick your texts and the question is, is Dun sparse the tech you're gonna run? And, and now we were like, everybody's just gonna cut all the techs and play capturing aroma and, and see how it goes. And like, all these guys got bodied up by like Reggie's decks and uh, Dal Ladon decks because they cut the echoing horns and the canceling colognes and uh, and Vitex. Um, it's a wild ride
Mike:Note that. None of the decks that made top a included wheezing or Eternatus. I feel like that is still like not a very good deck.
Brent:put shake in his
Mike:head.
Brit:I just, I mean, I just don't think like, or a little confused as to like, I, I would think that, just like the deck that Andrew Estrada played, like I would think that the better deck than this like wheezing, Eternatus thing. Like, and neither of them are very good. I, I don't think, but yeah, just like I understand like, and like some people made day too with uh, like Oricorio did I know and. It's like at a good record too. It's seven one and one. So it's not just like 6 21 sneaking in and like it obviously has very strong like cheese potential and so like, and sometimes you just have that tournament where you cheese four or five rounds or something like that. And like wheezing is obviously the, the deck to do that. But yeah, just, it just seems very, very weak to me. Especially as we, we move away from all Lugia all the time. As Mike sort of as Mikey just described it, like it just certainly gets way worse in those circumstances as well. The more of these like other decks you have to deal with and like, I think it's fine. Like again when it was, that's, you just have to qualify myself, I guess. Like when I say like, it's so bad, like sometimes I don't mean it's like unplayable, it's, you know, more like in regards to like your other options and things like that. And so it's obviously not like a binder drop that, you know, I turn out to also as. Been an inconsistent deck for the entire DIO since it was printed two years ago.
Brent:Yeah. It's, it's just a, it's a solid end of tier two, top of tier three kind of deck, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like where there, there's no question. When people are building this format, they'll say, well, that, that would be the ninth deck. I could build
Mike:Yeah. Uh, some of the other weird decks that we saw, at least in day two, the Sosa brothers both made day two with lost stone gre. Um, which also doesn't seem great to me, but they're both good players, so they're gonna do okay. It seems
Brit:alright. Like it's like a NAIC game call. Did anyone, I had a funny reaction and I noticed other people did too. When he Israel posted his necklace, I was just like, one
Brent:three
Brit:Let me think about that. And it was just, it was just a bad picture. He played the kind more standard here at Tina two three, but like, Pablo was just like one three. And I, I also was just like, huh, what am I missing here? Yeah,
Mike:yeah. Like, if anybody would do that, it is
Brent:Sosa And, and you know what, what was really crazy was when he was like, oh, my cards just stuck together and everyone accepted it. And I was like, whoa, wait, your cards stuck together. I felt like there was a lot more to, to plume outta that, that whole Twitter storm. But yeah, I think the,
Brit:we don't, I don't, I guess it hasn't done too much in our events, but I remember the first big, like limitless tournament of the. Gosh, I already, the last set, whatever, I'm blanking on the name. Lost Silver Tempe. Lost Origins. Lost Origins, yeah. For that format. And there was a Japanese player that made Top eight with, or the top 16, forget which with lost box gora. And it's just like, no one has played it, but like people have talked about it and I, I think it's fine. Like, I guess it's interesting, I'm, I'm not sure exactly what advantages, I'd have to really think about it longer for like rcs Gure, which we saw when the regionals versus this. Um, and like why, why this would be better in things like that. Cause I like Israel is Onstream and it didn't really, it was an in and an interesting game against, um, the, the Arceus box that made cut. I think that was the matchup. Yeah. And it just like, he just kind of had some awkwardness the whole time. But yeah, just like GRE is, I think good and just is assuming that like. They don't find out to your parasol and things like that. Like, I think does check several decks in the format, like pretty well. Um, but I'm just not sure what the really, what the lost box stuff does to get you there, other than being like, it's a good consistency engine to be sure. But like, just, it was a little confusing to see like, okay, so this, it's gonna attack with Cramorant and then just like a, but then it could have been a snore extra or something. It would've been the same game. Um, but yeah, it's, I think it's a fine deck. Um, probably tier two, but solidly there and is one I would consider. I really like these decks and, uh, it's like defensive. I, I used to build decks with Israel here and there and we built this. We have like a defensive list. I forget the year. That was a lot of fun. And so I like these kind of decks, but it seems like there's just some matchups. I don't think you can win. Sounds about
Brent:right. Yeah.
Mike:Um, anything else? Oh yeah. Um, the Dragonite v in the Lawson Cayo deck, that Azul grant, et cetera, they continued to play the deck. They made a slight innovation as they have for each of the different tome tournaments that they played it in. They played a Dragonite V, which does 250 for water, water lightning. I think. Um, It seems like it's kind of just like a solid card. It doesn't have a weakness, so at the very least it can two for two against like single prize decks. It can, uh, with a Choice Belt, it could kill a VStar. It's a nice answer to Stoutland just for three energy. You don't need choice belt. Um, so I'm sure it just has a lot of like little use cases. Um, seemed like a cool addition. Grant posted the list and said he's con pretty confident that it can't be optimized any further. which I thought was funny. Um, cuz they have made like just like one or two car changers the last few tournaments.
Brent:Yeah, you know, I, I tweeted after like three rounds cuz I had meant to say it on the podcast that I felt like this might be Grant Manley's tournament. And obviously the second I said that it cursed him and completely obliterated his tournament. Went from like five oh to 5 22 was like, that was me. I did that right there. Um, but I think I was a little surprised. Like I felt like this was, uh, uh, like this was the kind of moment that typically Grant shines where it's a like very structured Meta and he can build some weird, crazy thing and do pretty well. Like, I feel like the tournament was cr primed for weird, crazy, uh, and he just came back with lost bucks again. Man, I accept it, but,
Mike:uh, little surprise. Yeah. I mean, like I said though, like this, the format is pretty wide open now. There's so many different types of like, not only is there different decks with Lugia as the core center, like all of the decks operate quite differently from each other. So it's really hard, I think to, there's like little packages that counter. You know, one or two decks by themselves. But pulling a deck together that has all of these individual packages to counter all of the decks in the format while also maintaining yourself a core consistency is quite difficult. And I think, like I've been trying to do it, I'm sure Grant has been trying to do it and it's just, you get to a point in the deck building process, I find that you're like, well, you know, this deck is good in these areas, but like maybe this other deck that's already an established tech deck, just as all of those things as well. And it's more consistent Um, and so I think that's kind of where we're at. Like lost decks are just like pretty consistent. They're already versatile. They kind of do a lot of the things that you would want to do in a counter deck anyway. Um, right. So that's, it's weird, every deck is so powerful right now because we have so many cards. Like every deck can kind of like optimize themselves. It's, it's a weird place to, to be in. And we have so many more tournaments, more or less than this format. We do have new cards coming out, which maybe we should also touch on. Um, but
Brent:yeah. Yeah. So, so I tried to get Liam to uh, uh, return to the pod today to talk a little about Veco Volt, because I thought what I said to Liam was, I said, Liam, you were kind of the first guy to be like, VECO, Boltund could be good here, even though you did absolutely abysmal with it. Mm-hmm. And then apparently, like shortly after that, it turned into a really good deck. And his reaction was, well, like, you know, they printed like Lugia wasn't legal when he ran VECA Volt two like, uh, uh, you know what, 2, 2 2 drop or something in Baltimore. And then he was like, and you know, it isn't like I invented it because Tor did terrible at World's playing a VECA Volt deck. So like Veco Volt was hanging around before that. But uh, um, when I was trying to interrogate him about his thoughts on how Veco Volts evolved, the, the thing that he said to me that I want to get you guys reaction to, cuz I I thought it was interesting was he said he felt like the thing that he learned from, uh, watching Krekeler and this Veco Volt deck is, is, uh, he, that he felt like the, the speakable deck is, it runs this aerodactyl deck for Lugia and it's basically, if you go first, you a hundred o Lugia and if you go second you are have a pretty good chance of getting run over by Lugia. Uh, but like it's amazing that you can have a two card tech that allows you to a hundred o Lugia 50% of the time. And you know, the fact that you can just put in two cards and make your match up against the best deck in the format, kind of 50 50. Yeah. Is like an interesting and redeeming factor that he should think about in like future deck building. Yeah,
Mike:I think that's a good takeaway. Uh, the only caveat to add, and I think he mentioned this actually in our chat, so he's aware of it as well, is you, in this case and just in general, when you're playing like a one one tech, you need to be able to execute it consistently because you need it. Turn one, turn two. Right, right, right.
Brent:That's obviously the, like, it's a little bit of an exaggeration cuz you're like, well, you have to get it out. But also, like, there's gonna be times when Lugia goes first, but they don't get the aerodactyl in the discard. Like, or they don't get the uh, uh, uh, Archeops in the discard. Like, all it's, it's not, you know, it's not a hundred Oh. And it's not zero 100, but like, it's kind of like that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, it's a, it's an interesting thing that you're like, well there's, there's this. Stupid thing I can do that that makes, but, but like, obviously a credit to, uh, Krekeler and Gibbon. And I think to your point of it, it's not exactly like that from the math. I mean, if, if they were just 50 50 in Lugia, I mean, both those guys must have played half a dozen Lugia over the course of the day and they somehow didn't 50 50 it or they'd have been top 32 in. Right,
Mike:right, right, right. I mean, cuz going second. Yeah. You, you cannot unlock 'em. So I think your, your matchup against Lugia is probably quite good. Like overall, like, let's, let's say that it's, let's say that it's 90 10 when you go first. So that's already like 45%. And then let's say it's like 60 40. When you go second, that's a 30, that's like a 75. Right. It's like a 5 25, like 60 40 going second is also, it feels pretty reasonable. Even if it's 50 50 going second, that's still like very good.
Brent:Right, right, right. So
Mike:yeah, speakable does seem quite good against Lugia and it seems very strong against law. Uh, box. We saw Gibby play against Lawson, definitely on the Winnin and maybe in one of the top cut games as well. I forget, uh, I didn't watch too much of the top cut, but I saw a lot of the rest of the tournament. Like the way that you play against the Lason deck is really clever because you have zap do, so you do 60, do a comfy and then you don't kill it though, and then you Zigzagoon at the next turn. So you kind of like, it's not exactly a loop, but it's like close enough. Um, uh, so having like strong matchups against the two most popular decks in the format, uh, It gives the deck a lot of merit. Um, and I think people will probably try to respect it a little bit more going into Orlando. Um, I'm not sure how to respect it exactly yet, but I think people will be thinking much more about it than they were because it's no longer, I think, just a
Brent:fluke. Right, right. That that was gonna be my next question is if you're, if you're Lugia, is there, is there some magical tech for this? I don't know.
Mike:Yeah. Maybe Cologne. Uh, well Cologne doesn't even do that much, right? Yeah. Well,
Brent:and uh, and does Cologne work against Aerodactyl if it's
Brit:active? I
Brent:guess so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so the turn that they use the VStar attack, you can cologne and do your thing,
Mike:right? Yeah. But you need to have it like that turn Right, right. Which seems rough.
Brent:Yeah, that's fair. Um, alright, let's, let's transition to talking about, uh, uh, I recognize that I, I mean, I think there's a Liverpool tournament before Orlando, but let's talk about Orlando anyway. And why don't we start Orlando by talking about Jason's the Exter. We talked about it a little about it last week, but I, I think Britt's been thinking more about what we have to do, uh, for all the people who are listening, who are planning to stick around and win some old school, uh, uh, tournament action. That's your cue? That's my cue.
Brit:Yeah. I mean, I don't expect, I, I wish you were like, I mean, I'm sure there might be another one or something. I don't know if this is just like a one time thing, a yearly thing or something. Cause I'm really interested to go. I just. Don't think it's in the, the cards for me this month. Similarly with Orlando, I've just got a lot of stuff going on. Uh, or the, the regionals rather. They're both in Orlando. Yeah, but I was talking to Jason this morning just trying to, you know, as we talked about last week, Mikey and I have both played the format a little bit, but haven't really kept up. Um, so I just kind of like, what are your 2 cents? Give me the, give me the abridged like, uh, patch. Like tell me how the Meta game has adjusted. Sort of, and I didn't get too much info on this, but sort of the, the, I think most important piece of information I got, and I guess you'll have to interpret this as you will, is that I think stanler, his point on Stanler was that it's like he doesn't think it's all that good. It's like, I think something this is, I guess probably like, will probably only make the format sound less and less interesting because I think like a lot of the people who play it play it very seriously and also were very good. In their own time. And so his, his thing about Stanler was that the only, only three people of won tournaments with the Stanler deck, and it's him, Chuck, uh, Alex Pero, for those who don't know and toured, no one else has won a tournament with the Stanler deck. So I think there is, despite it sort of controlling a large share of the Meta game, I think it ends up being very like skill intensive, understanding like how to discard cards properly and how to, how to pull off the trigger.
Mike:Um,
Brit:how do you know when you pivot to your things. And so the, and similarly, Mikey also mentioned the camera up deck that he had been mentioning, and that was one that I was really curious about and that's just camera up Statler. And all it does is you just try to, Stan Stanler, you're your. Into, well, I guess the combo is statler discarding their, like good cards, their useful cards, and then they kill a statler. And then you use pow hand extension, which is a free gust of wind if you're losing. And then you, you just trap something active, you get your CES crystal online, and then you just spread with camera up. It just kind of has a pretty bad like split bomb attack, but it, it's enough to get you there and it, it powers itself up. So I guess it's not that bad of an attack. Um, but yeah, it's interesting. I guess one of the things I was really sort of reflecting on is how, how consistent these sorts of strategies were, like back in the day. And I don't just mean like the pow hand extension sort of stuff that of course was being, you know, was such a big deal of oh five and oh six. Is that right? I know it's oh six, but I don't remember if it was oh five too. When did hand extension come out? Oh
Mike:five, yeah. Oh five. Um,
Brent:But yeah,
Brit:but just in general, a lot of these RS through PK decks are spread decks, which is just my, probably my favorite archetype. It's a deck I always love to play, but just because of how, uh, HP has been power crept, they're just like, hasn't been a good spread deck in years. But if, if you look at the history of the game, and I think it's something that's unique to Pokegear too, right? Like we talk about like mid-range and control and things like that, but like spread is a little bit of somewhat a bit of everything. Like sometimes it can be kind of controlling, sometimes it's just aggressive, like mid-range stuff. But it's like, because of the way like Pokegear is structured, it's an interesting like wind condition that I don't think, you know, this concept doesn't really translate well into other games, which I think is really cool. And so it, for me, it's sort of special in that way. But, so like a lot of these decks you have like rye eggs, scrambled eggs, camera, um, Meta, CHAM all about just like. Slow methodical games where you're just placing damage counters very carefully and, and then you make a comeback with things like, you know, sus crystal shutting things down. There was like Desert Ruins, which is, was, um, gosh, it was in my head. What is, what is the more recent version of that card called?
Mike:Uh, trying to Punishment. Punishment.
Brit:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah. But anyways, we just, I trying to think of the last time there was a spread deck viable, and it, it's probably when that Dusknoir was legal. Like almost, almost certainly. Uh,
Brent:there, there were, there were like Koko spread decks when Tapu Bulu Koko, I think Tapu, Bulu Koko was the last Oh, right. There was the lay line. Right, right. There's not been a good spread attacker since Koko.
Mike:And that card is, let, let me just mention like that card is nuts for spread. That card
Brent:is the legend, like that is
Mike:the best spread card ever printed by far. And it's like, Wasn't even like, it was good in the format, but it wasn't great. And the fact that it wasn't great is really sad cuz it's like, it absolutely insane.
Brit:The, the Lele or the Koko? The Koko. Well, they're both, they both are. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Type of Koko is definitely like, like on the face of it. I don't think it's, you know, really all that extraordinary looking, but yeah, it's definitely like, it's certainly one of the best cards, like of the sun and moon formats and, but just like, it just has free retreat and that's about it. And it's, it's just an incredible card.
Brent:Uh, it mean it was a free retreat with a meaningful attack for a D C E. So it was like, it was both like super splash free retreat. Like That's crazy. Yeah, it was, it was absolutely bonkers. And I remember that was coming out at the same time in like blister packs that they printed the, like that they randomly printed. Was it the Jirachi? That discarded energy for like one colorless. Yeah. And like that was a meaningful card, the format. It was a weird time. Mm-hmm. but, but that type of cocoa was like the greatest card ever right up there with Oranguru.
Brit:Yeah. Outside of that, I don't have too much more insight into the format. I think if you are interested, Jason has, would probably talk to you himself as well as just has written so much, um, on so many decks. I was not even just this format too, but he has like all the formats ranked and it's not just like somewhat just like, here's my top 20. He has a very sort of like methodical process rating, all sorts of different things and things like that. It's a very interesting read. Like I definitely want one, two, when I was looking at it earlier, just like want to send it to some of my like, uh, like coworkers, game design friends. Just like, I think it's a cool read into the history of the game and the least just like if you've never played before and are frustrated with your current experiences as one of my blizzard coworkers who played Lugia in San Diego and like missed day two after a good start, which I'm sure feels bad. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just, I don't know. I like, history is cool and history for the stuff we like is even cooler. Yeah, for
Mike:sure. There is like a lot of decks that seem viable in the Rs p k, uh, like looking at the list that you sent Bri of thing, decks that have done well. Uh, drag TRO is up there, which is a classic deck. Ray eggs, classic deck. Ray eggs is great. Uh, dark Tyranitar tar.
Brit:Classic. Classic. For us though, like I feel like it's, it's a different sort of term for like, for some people the sun and moon formats are like classic Yeah, that's true. Just data in certain ways. Yeah, we're just the old heads. If you wanna know what's going on in our heads, like here are the formats we we're in, the decks we want to talk about. Um,
Mike:so a lot of, like, a lot of good decks there. Um, I don't know what Camer, oh, camer is the camera up. Stand there. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, it seems, seems
Brent:cool. Yeah. Uh, it should be a super, super fun tournament. Uh, I think people will have a lot of fun. Um, let's talk about Orlando. So here's what I've come to understand about Orlando that w I think was not apparent to me before. So Crown Zenith comes out on January 20th. Mm-hmm. But because that's a special set, there's no pre-releases before that. Correct. So January 20th will be like the first time we find out what the actual set list is and people can like buy cards theoretically. And then February 3rd, like is go time.
Mike:Yeah. I mean, we have a pretty good idea of what's in the set. We're not like a hundred percent sure, but we have a pretty good idea. Um, as I was looking at like the expected cards, there's not too many cards that will have an impact, but the ones that are interesting, um, well there's more that are in, that are interesting, but of like, Particular note, there is a new seal stone tool, like a VStar tool that can only, I mean, it can be attached anywhere, but if it's attached to a basic V Pokegear and it takes a knockout on a VStar or a VMax, you can take an extra prize. So that card is pretty good. Um, I've seen it floating around mostly in like lost zone decks that would play maybe a Raku or a drap. So both of those are hitting like Mew and Lugia, like Raku kills Lugia. You take three prizes, drap kills a Mew, you take four prizes. Um, so I think that card could be pretty impactful. Um, it's even quite good against something like Adon, where like Archist Aldon wants to go 2, 3, 3 on your prizes, right? Kill an archist, kill two Aldons. But the seal stone makes it so that you kill adon. For anarchist and you mess up that prize trade, so you just have to kill one adon and one Arceus. Um, so I think that card will probably have some impact. Um, the second card that has been getting a good amount of hype and I'm, it's either gonna be really good or really bad, I think, um, is the Radiant Eternatus, which when you play it from your hand, you can search your deck for two VMAXs and put them directly on the bench. So most obvious I think, is to run that with Dodon VMax and or flying Pikachu. You just need some way to accelerate energy from that. So, uh, either law zone or maybe Archeops, not too sure. Um, we've been talking a lot about different ways to play it. Uh, I was at a local tournament last night and people were trying it out. Seems good. I'm just not sure. It's great. Um, so those are like the two biggest cards. So like, I would say, uh, a distant third is a basic Zamazenta that has 130 hp. Its ability makes it so that it takes 30 less damage if it has energy cards attached to it. And it's attack is Melmetal Melmetal, colorless a hundred or 130 base. I forget which one is the base. And then if one of your Pokegear got knocked out the previous turn, it does two 30. So it's either a hundred plus one 30 or one 30 plus a hundred. Uh, I, I forget which one. Um, but those are like the three like standout cards for me. Um, and then there's some other interesting cards as well. But I think those are the three that I would be surprised to not see in Orlando.
Brent:I feel like, I feel like the, uh, um, the Eternatus feels to me like the only new archetype, but it's weird for Pokegear to make me figure out, uh, what carts to put in the, uh, package they've been, they've just spoon feeding me for so long.
Mike:Yeah. Right. It's, uh, the other thing that I'm interested in is just like the existence of these cards could alter the Meta shares of other decks. So if people think that like eternity radiant Eternatus is very good, then the obvious, the obvious partners, I think with Radiant Eternatus, like I said, are drilled on and flying Pikachu. So flying Pikachu is expected to be much more popular than something like Reggie's, which has seen such a surge of success in the last two tournaments becomes a lot less appealing because flying Pikachu is really hard for them to deal with. Um, right. So like that is an interesting component. Uh, if the seal stone is something actually relevant as well, then Uhone and Mew both seem less appealing, uh, for, for various reasons. So I, I think that'll kind of be the more interesting part of it for me is not necessarily are these cards good or bad in their own right, but just as the existence of them change the perception of what people will play. And probably not really, because a lot of people, um, don't think too that deeply about the Meta game, but at the top level, you know, the top 50 players going to this event, they are thinking that deeply. And how does that impact their decision making? Um, is, uh, is certainly worth thinking about If you're also in that, you know, top 50 to a hundred players going.
Brit:Yeah, I think it'll be interesting cause I feel like most players will just, you know, think, I think Xander is just like, uh, following his Aerodactyl deck or his mute deck with Aerodactyl that we haven't talked yet about yet was someone's just like, are you gonna break the Eternatus? And he's like, I don't have time Yeah. To do that. Like, my head hurts from the mute deck and I feel like a lot of that's just gonna be the story for a lot of top players. They're just gonna opt out and even thinking about making it work and we'll just show up with something good and like maybe Alex Krekeler or someone like that does bring something really good with it. But I think regardless of like how good the Radiant Eternatus ends up being, it's like probably not worth losing sleepover magic wise if you're going to Orlando. Like, we'll see. Like, but that's, that's my 2 cents on it, I think. Like, it's probably not great. Um, and as such, it's probably not, I mean, you can test it if you, especially, you know, say, Grant, you know, you've perfected that deck already, like why not spend some time on it? But for most players it's just like, eh, learn your deck a little better instead, unless you've perfected it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That, that, but I'm, I'm Inteleon, I'm curious. I'm trying to make an orbital list. Um, that's like, for me, I mean, playing Pikachu is probably the obvious winner in something, but Orbital is like the, the best, the, the worst. What am I trying to say? The best, worst VMax to try it with. I think, like, I think there's something there and, but Orbital is just like obviously not a powerful card. Um, whereas Pikachu is just like, yeah, you do this and you auto a bunch of matchups as, or Beatle is like, I think there's something there. Or at least
Brent:Pikachu is a proven card that wins tournaments, right? Yeah. You gotta figure out a way to play that card. It has historically won.
Mike:It's interesting too, like, uh, orbital is a good example. You can also, you can scoop up the radiant and turn test and use it again, right? So like you could, like for Orbital for example, you could get all four orbital out in two turns. Um, which is funny. Um, I saw like Catron posted a deck on Twitter earlier today with Radiant Eternatus and Reggie Leki and you can get like two Reggie Leki VMax out and then use other like basic lightning attackers that you might not have used before. I think he was using patchy risu, the tool drop one in the list that he posted. But that's like maybe an idea worth exploring. Are there other good basic lightning attackers, um, that you. didn't wanna build Reggie Lucky VMax around, but now that you have this, maybe you do
Brit:Yeah, that was the other main card I, I thought about just like, maybe this will find a way for it to be playable, but I guess like zap doses is just enough as the Arceus have proven. But yeah, that was my other main thought. I was, I'm sure there's a handful of VMax is I like, I don't know what they do and they might be okay,
Brent:but Right. Yeah. Like, I feel like people must be absolutely just grinding through all of the VMAXs and saying like, is there a VMax that I had rejected on face, but now I, I have stronger, uh, I feel more fondly towards it, but, but like, it's so obvious. I feel like people would already be saying that's, that's the thing people do. Right. I don't know. Um, guys, so I've been, I've been saving this for like five pods and, and, but we've had, we've been so jam packed. We haven't been able to get to it. But let, let's talk about it for three minutes. How long until they announced revised, uh, cp, I mean, so it takes 500 CP to qualify for worlds at this point. Five masters have their invite. Congratulations to, uh, grant Manley Jon, Eng Azul, Alex Schlansky, and Caleb Emer. They have attended enough tournaments. Like you have to, like top six. Apparently, as Azul would say, you have to top 16 every single tournament
Mike:Yeah, exactly. Um, I would be surprised if we heard anything before Scarlet and Violet came out. I feel like I, I, I have this feeling that just like every, we're just gonna get like a waterfall of stuff around when the Scarlet Violet comes out, like Lee Cups are coming back, not anything before then. Like maybe we'll get the world's dates, then they'll revise the CP thing. Like I just feel like everything's gonna come out right around then.
Brit:But if it is, just give us a roadmap. Like,
Brent:come on. Yeah, right. Yeah. Like for, for me it's just like, like they're, uh, you know, the, the history is of like, struggling to deliver is so long. I'm like, could they really deliver that much stuff that quickly? I don't know. I mean, it takes months for them to do deliver one thing. Yeah. it's, it's, uh, uh, it's hard to imagine. But, so here's, here's the question. Do you think, is there a world where they imagine like some sort of like Japan turnabout as fair play kind of situation where they actually think they want to invite very few people to worlds?
Mike:I think that's a possibility. Yeah, for sure.
Brent:Like, I know, I mean, I know Japan is very expensive and very crowded. I'm assuming that they got a giant convention center, even though I haven't Googled the convention center, but everyone knows like the convention center I like, I'm assuming it can hold tons and tons and tons of people and Pokegear is planning on spending a boatload of money in their backyard to like do a thing. So I, I guess I'd always assumed that they were not going to suddenly decide that the Pokegear World Championships is an ultra exclusive event. But
Mike:yeah, and just the way that it's still like structured leads me to believe that it's not meant to be super small. Right. Like currently, like the top 16 doesn't even all have invites Right. So, and Right, right. In previous years by now there'd be like, I don't know, I'd have to go look at the data, but I like, there'd be like a hun over a hundred people with invites by now. Right. My guess. Um, so. Yeah, I would be really
Brit:surprised if they ever changed their tune or on like worlds being small. Like I, as I think expressed, I think I would prefer it that way, like a smaller worlds, like a really small world. But I just, I don't, this just, just ever doesn't ever seem consistent in like what they want and how they structure things. But again, not to say that we can really intuit what's going on in Tp c i based on what they do or don't do. But yeah, I mean, I, I bet like Mike, I bet it'll be like Mike I would think I've, I've seen some speculation that there still might not be like, there, like leads will have to start more, like, well get challenges and then cuts and that potentially might not happen in within the qualification, like period. Like I could, I could see that happening still too. So like effectively it's just another season without locals and, but, I think they'll adjust the CP
Brent:for sure. I mean, if, if they, if they announced on March 1st, okay. The League Cups are back, uh, uh, you have like a best finish limit of four. It would be a blood bath. Yeah. Yeah, like, like there's no consideration for the humanity if they did that. Yeah,
Mike:like league ups would. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. There'd be like people trying to pre-register for League Cups so they can get their
Brent:spot and Yeah, like if they, if they said League Cups and League Challengers are there and like, you know, there's a four BFL for each, it would be pandemonium, nonstop. Every single tournament would be absolute chaos.
Brit:I knew it would be a nightmare for stipend chasers too. It was just like, ah, dang it. I got second again. I gotta go play two more. Like, yeah,
well
Brent:that's what I'm saying, like, like people would get second and they would be like, that's not good enough. I have to go to every, I need, I have to
Brit:have four wins or you know, I can't
Brent:stop you, you gotta go every weekend. And if there's one in the middle of the week, I'm gonna drive from like Arkansas to Ohio. Cause like there's a cup in the middle of the week and I gotta go. Oh, for sure.
Brit:100% that would happen. Yeah.
Brent:Guaranteed. Oh my God. Let's hope they do it. But yeah, we like, you know, I recognize Piper Lapine and Drew Kenneth, like, they, they really gotta start doing well at, uh, tournaments if they wanna get their invite. Yeah, right. It's, uh, it's, it's tough out there. Um, so, so I, I like the thinking that maybe they'll be organized and like Scarlet and Violet's the plan, but like Yeah. I'm like, we're kind of halfway into the season.
Mike:Yeah. I mean, like, I think it's ridiculous that we don't know the dates for worlds. Like I am almost like every week Kelly asked me, she's like, So did you uh, do we know when we're going to Japan yet?
Brent:This is a great topic cuz I, yeah. I texted somebody last night and was like, I would like to make Japan vacation plans. Mm-hmm. like, I'm not, you know, this ain't going to Nashville. Yeah. They gotta tell us stuff. Yeah. It's, it is insane. And, and like obviously the stupid thing is they know the dates. Right. Right, right, right. that's the stupidest thing is that they told,
Brit:they know the dates as to why they wouldn't. Yeah. Right. Who knows?
Brent:It's so, so dumb. I
Brit:at least it's, uh, it's how it usually goes. It's not new.
Brent:Alright. As, as long as we're really getting into it. I might as well ask the other question that I've had hanging around here, guys. Uh, revising the price structure. Is there any hope for them ever saying, Hey, that guy who day tuned and got 120 ninth, we feel, we feel a little bad for him.
Mike:I don't think there's much of a chance. They're retroactively do it. Yeah. Zero for
Brit:retroactive. Yeah.
Brent:I agree. Totally agree. Totally agree. Retroactive. No, but I'm just saying like, will they acknowledge the fact that like thousand person tournaments are the new norm and the way that they either structure tournaments or structure prizes, like it's not, it's not quite, I don't think they have to
Brit:acknowledge it until people stop going. Like it's, we can complain all day long, but it's a successful model. People are going, these things sell out. You have to register instantly. Like. I think that something about that has to, will have to change before they have to do anything. For all they know. For all we know, this is, this is good. Like this is, you know, they're running what they want to run and that a player, you know, 128 players sort of get the shorter end of the stick. Like it's not affecting their bottom line, you know, it's fair.
Mike:That's a good, that's probably a fair way to look
Brent:at it. I, you know what's funny is, so I, I, I think I've always, I think historically kind of agreed with you, like I've said, oh, the counter-argument between these people who complain about the guy who comes at 120 ninth think it's absolutely nothing, even though he had to play all of day two, is like, I mean, the difference between 120 ninth, the hundred 29th guy and the hundred 30th guy is he had the chance to win some rounds. It's on him to go win some rounds. Like, he was given the opportunity to try to get some prizes and like the fact that, uh, you know, he could not win a single round in day two was like, Unfortunately, kind of on him, um, the, the worst player in day two gets nothing. Uh, you know, I accept that and I, and I recognize, you know, if Florida's like a 1500 player tournament, or maybe you'll say, well, like now there's 40 guys that get screwed. But like, I, I also understand that the flip side of it is, I mean, in the big scheme of things, it wouldn't cost Pokegear a lot to prize out everybody on day two. If they said, screw it, we're just gonna give a box to everybody on day two. Like, the impact of Pokemon's bottom line would be net net pretty much zero. Yeah. Yeah, of
Brit:course.
Brent:Yeah. Like you can just hand a box to everybody who called for day two at the end of the day, one to be like, yeah, y'all got a box, come back tomorrow. And like, I don't know if that would make everybody happy, but like, it ain't bad. It'd be, it'd be something.
Mike:Yeah, it would be something. We'll see. I do think, I think it's possible that next season they do something differently as they realize that like they probably need to reevaluate every year. Like, cuz part of the reason that we're in this predicament this year of nobody getting their invite is because they didn't really take the time to think about like, oh, how is this season different from last season and the season's before? Um, because I think if they thought about it like for more than five minutes and be like, oh, there's not gonna be League Cups for the first half of the year. We probably should make some changes. Like, I think they just need to be in the habit of thinking about it differently every year.
Brent:Yeah. And what's funny is it, it isn't like they've never done this before. Yeah, they've previously had years where they said, oh, we, we adjusted the point total halfway through because we recognize like, you know, not enough people were gonna get their invite. And I know like they're targeting a certain number of people getting their invite because they have a venue of like a certain size and they're trying to think about that stuff at, um, um, but like, uh, people hate them when they change it late. And I don't know, I always felt like, like, yeah, I don't know if people are like lying to themselves when they say, oh, if I'd known it was only gonna be 425, I would've gone so much harder. like, I would've gone to three more tournaments. I, you know, but, but like the fact that people do tell themselves that, that much, that like, Pokegear should recognize that and like try to get ahead of it a little bit. You know? And maybe you could say even if we'd done it a month later, there would still be a bunch of people complaining. But you know, Decided to wait six months and then, and then spring it on. Everybody is a bit of a wild ride. Yeah. Hmm. How, how low, Mike, is there a number that they could lower it to that would make you say I should go harder than I was planning on going? This is a good question for both of you.
Mike:Um, two 50 like it'd have to be a lot
Brent:lower What, what, what are you at right now? 1 20, 1 22. You'd be like, we're definitely going to regionals until we get to two 50, because that's a thing we could do. Right,
exactly.
Mike:Maybe like 300, like is also probably there. Anything like 300 would be like the, the high bar of being, like if there was no locals, I could still get it from regionals.
Brent:Right. How about you Brit? Is there some number they could say where you would say, shit, I, you know what, I know I said I wasn't gonna Orlando, but like now we're gonna Orlando
Brit:like two 50 I think. Yeah. Cause I've basically decided I'm, I'm not qualifying and not not playing. Probably won't go to locals even if they come back. So I'll go to some other social thing, but not as a gr as a grinding thing. But yeah, like two 50, I would, I would maybe consider going to every other original left or something like that. Um, but yeah, I would, I don't, I don't think, I think 300 would still be too much. Yeah. Arbitrarily. So like maybe, but I like, I like the way two 50 sounds, let me, let me experience the eu. Like just what's it
Brent:like? Yeah, like I guess, I guess for Mike, I kind of imagined it was like a little 300 sounds to me like a reasonable number. Cuz he would say, he would say, well I'm planning on going anyway. Cuz it's like Japan, right? Yeah. Pokegear World Championship. I'm going, it's like you're already planning on going and then you find out like, There's a world where you are competing and you're like, yeah, I should do that. Yeah. And you tell Kelly like, I gotta go grind a little harder cuz like, I do want to compete. Why not? Is this doable? We can do this. Yeah.
Mike:The other thing, the other component of this whole thing that I think is like really unfair personally is that I see ICS payout like so much more CP for like not being any harder really. Like maybe a little bit, like a little bit harder at the very top end, but not harder at all on like the lower end of the points. If in fact they're probably easier, um, for, for like, you know, the 64 points and 1 28 points and 32 points. Like that kind of range.
Brent:Yeah. I mean, how many people were at LA L A I C?
Mike:Do we, I mean it was a lot. It was like eight or 900. Right. Um, but it's not harder than a regional and like getting. You know, I, I, I don't have the payout structure in front of me right now, but like getting 1 28 or 64 at an IC versus regional is like way, way, way different. Um, and so it, uh, it rewards like way more for people that are just paying to get there.
Brent:Yeah. The, the, the, the like stipend grinding chasers.
Mike:Yeah. Even, even people that aren't necessarily going for, I guess like stipends, but not necessarily top 16. But yeah, like I, there are, you know, there's always, uh, I don't know, 10 ish people from the US that go to these events that are not top 16 players, um, that go to one or two other ics. And if they make top sixes, poor top 32, like their road to an invite is, is significantly easier, um, than anybody that doesn't. And I, I get it like trying to reward people for these bigger events, but like, If, if, if, if everyone had their own opportunity in their own region to do it, I'd feel one way about it. But the fact that you're able in theory, to go to like multiple of them and really like inflate your points through that is, um, it doesn't really sit well with me.
Brent:Right, right. I mean, I recognize, uh, I have like, uh, uh, I mean there, there was a pre pandemic world where we were planning to take like a week or two off to go to Australia and do O C I C whenever it was. Cuz I was like, you know, soon Liam will be off to college. And like, you would've, you would've had some sort of stipend thing and I'd be like, when are we ever gonna do this again? But like, I recognize for you professionally, like it's not an option.
Mike:Right. Yeah. And for a lot of people it's not an option for, you know, a variety of reasons.
Brent:Right. Yeah. Yeah. I obviously, uh, uh, uh, economically not an option for many, many people, but Yeah. Yeah. I recognize you're, you're actually, like, your job is being told you cannot go too bad.
Mike:and I don't wanna say like, I don't fault anyone for doing it. I just think that like, systemically it's set up in a way that is unfair.
Brent:Yeah. I mean, if, if you don't go to all four ics, you, you basically, like, you structurally can't be a top 16 chaser. Right. Right, right, right, right. Because they're so, the payouts are so wild. If you don't get paid something at the ics, like you're, you're not even doing it. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. And, and if you do go to the ICS and you get paid, like the payout is so disproportionate, you can't help but suddenly be like, way ahead of everybody else. Yeah.
Mike:Yeah. Exactly.
Brent:Woo, guys. That's, that's gonna be a lot for Pokegear Senior Management to unpack, uh, later this week. Yeah, hopefully hear it
Mike:Yeah, I just looked it up like top 1 28 and IC is a hundred points top 1 28 at a regional is, uh, 40 points.
Brent:Yeah. Well, so I mean, if you go to four ics and you get top hundred 28, which is not ridiculous. Not ridiculous at all. Yeah. I mean, it's an 800% tournament, so you, like, you're, if you're a top 10%, you basically have your world's invite, right? I mean, we all, we've always known like there's an element of pay-to-play ishness when it comes to, uh, the stipend, but it's just readily apparent there, right? I mean, top 128 is no great shakes, uh, in terms of like super impressive performances. And yet then, yet there that guy's gonna worlds. Yeah. And like, is super close to, uh, stipend grinding, right? Mm-hmm. I mean if, uh, how many, how many, uh, ICS have we had now? Two.
Mike:Just one. The second one is like the week or two after Orlando. Oh, that's right.
Brent:Have we not had a U I
Mike:C? When is that? No, U I C is in April.
Brit:Okay. Yeah. April like 14th I think. Yeah.
Mike:Oh yeah. That's another, we still don't know the, the dates for any I c too crazy. Anyway.
Brent:Yeah, yeah. So, but, but the world's thing is an absolute travesty cuz like Yeah. It's a, it's a big commitment. You know, I wonder if, I wonder if, uh, Japan has people that complained about like US worlds and how they were slowly states. Probably I can only imagine. I can imagine. But like the, yeah, it just seems, um, I mean, it's always wild when Pokegear doesn't announce IC dates in World States because like they know, right. and I know from time to time chaos ensues like the San Francisco worlds, but like, wouldn't it be better to just like overcommunicate. Oh, there you go guys. Anything else? I feel like that's all we got.
Mike:Yeah, I gotta go make dinner. All
Brent:right. The John Pauls are our outro. Thanks a lot guys. We'll be back, uh, next week with, uh, something funny,