We were just talking about, um, you know, the other games that we are playing or not playing anymore. Um, and like I was playing a ton a ton, way too much Hearthstone Battlegrounds before, and I'm still playing like a bit. I don't know, anywhere. Maybe I average, maybe like one game a day, but before I was averaging like three games a day. Um, and, and I think a big part of that is live coming out on the phone. Um, a lot of my gaming time I. Like, I pretty much only played Battlegrounds on my phone. And so now that I can play live on my phone, most of that gaming time has gone to live. Even though I can only get like two games on live in before I have to, you know, turn my phone off cuz it's too hot and out of battery. But Battlegrounds wasn't that different in, in that regards. Yeah.
Brent:You know, it's been interesting for me, um, like. I don't know what they should, like, what they should do super differently, but I recognize one of the challenges of live is like, it's just not as mid-core as I want it to be. And Brit you right before you, we hit the record button. You were kind of speaking of that like, like Clash of Clans takes me three minutes. I already know. Like it takes three minutes. It does not take longer. It just, it's gonna take three minutes and Pokegear, I'm like, I guess we gotta carve out like 20 minutes. Hmm, to really find out how things are gonna end here, people. And in that respect, it's a little bit, um, uh, tough to just like kind of pick up and play a quick game, you know? Uh, I don't know what, uh, like, I guess one of the things I've wondered about, and, and I wanted to get your reaction, Brit as somebody who's like, been kind of involved in these things, like. Do they think about when they're building animations for these games and stuff like that? Like a target time that, like a game should take?
Brit:Yeah. Yeah. Very. At least, um, they, they should be. And I, I think sometimes like when the lack of attention is there, at least to say like the stuff that, you know, my starts at Blizzard, so the stuff I'm like conditioned to care about, but yeah, they're, they're, they're micro-focused on all of that stuff like this, you know, because in, in the work that I would do, I would. Um, basically get to pick the animations and stuff. So like mercenaries was generally all reuses and stuff like that, so I'm just reusing a, a VFX from a Hearthstone card or something like that. And I would consistently, and, and like hot fixes and stuff have to like, um, like not me personally causing the problem, but being like, this animation is a little too long or it's jarring in this interaction. Find, you know, find a new animation as a bug fix and things like that. And definitely very intent on. Uh, how it consumes your time and things like that. For sure. You know, which I guess, you know, that we complain a lot about that. And on the side of live, how it really, like the, the mahome sort of critique where it's just like zooming, you know, everything's just sort of flying every which way, but the like card text itself is like over bloated in space and things like that. Yeah. So
Brent:I haven't seen this feedback yet, but I, I can't be the only person that's had this reaction and I, and, and I was trying to figure out if it's too. Heretical to like a newcomer's experience. But, um, uh, one thing I feel like I took away from life is I'm like, you know what? They should just pick my prizes for me. Maybe we could speed this whole thing up, like instead of the whole prize, like gooey popping up and having this whole modal thing, just put two cards in my hand, we're done. Like, it's fine.
Mike:You know, the only thing, the only thing is like pi, stuff like that, but.
Brent:I mean, well, so there's still times when you have to do like the modal dialogue. Oh, yeah. I guess if you're like, if you're like, I know the prizes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike:The, the, I would say my pet peeve similar though is like if you win the game, like if you take enough prizes to win the game, they still make you take the prizes.
Brent:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's super. That's
Mike:super. Sometimes I'll like win and then I'll walk away from my computer and I come back and that screen is still up. I'm like, oh my God.
Brent:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Su super, uh, uh, aggravating. Um, and, uh, uh, yeah, like I've had situations where like I kao myself while winning. And like they have to take a prize. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, oh, we're gonna be here all day. People we're, it's just might as well throw caution in the wind. Uh, we are, we are in for, you know, I, I know I only blocked out 20 minutes, but we're gonna eat 35.
Mike:The uh, it's funny cuz like the, once you actually get into the game, the timers really do keep the game, the pace of the game going pretty well. But the beginning of the game, As well as also extremely slow and there's no like time limit on those actions. Like when like choosing like, um, tens point thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there's no, that doesn't affect the time at all. And so sometimes you're stuck in those screens for a couple minutes not doing anything, and that's. On top of it already being like slow to transition between those screens. So the beginning of the game is the most frustrating for me.
Brent:Yeah. And I know they're trying to create that like physical, real world experience, but they could also not, you know, like I, yeah, I'd be okay with like, you know, why don't you guys just call the coin, flip the coin. Like it's, theoretically it's 50 50. Either way. Right. Prompt one of us to ask if they want us to go first or something and have it be random. I'd be fine with that and we'll save like 45 seconds right off the front end and like, we're into the game and let's go, you know? Totally, totally agree. If I have one basic, I mean I know you want me to put it in the active, but like you could also just put it in the active format.
Brit:You could do it, it's like strange. And I think there's like sort of like a variety of issues too, like the flow problems with Pokegear and you know, some of them I think are, are like UX UI concerns, but some of them I think is just particular to the way. Pokegear has played, you know, just like, literally as a game and like something I noticed, just like always like, you know, playing these other digital card games. Marvel Snap. I downloaded Ru Terra again recently, but I haven't, haven't tried it again yet. But I mean to, but anyways, other than that, all these games where it's like, it's so much easier compared to Pokegear, to, you know, like Mikey says, you know, talking about the, the victory screen. You're waiting to take your prizes, all these other games, it's very easy just to like, take your turn, go do something, come back, look at the screen, take your turn again, and like Pokegear. Has elements of that because you know, interaction wise there's not a whole lot going on between the two players. You know, it's my turn and then it's your turn, but you still just like, it's just discard and search and discard and search and shuffle and draw. You know, it's just all these just little, little actions that just like the micro actions are like the minutia of Pokegear just isn't as simplistic as Hearthstone or as Marvel Snap. And you know, I mean obviously, so you know, these games are. Designed with, you know, mobile pc. Probably like the simplicity in mind. But there's another thing to say, you know, that I think complicates the picture. Like, I do think it can be smoother, but some of it is difficult because you just have to keep, like coming back to, you know, your, your turn as the player and you're doing very different things consistently. Whereas Hearthstone is just like, play a creature, play a spell, that's, you know, kind of it, right, right. Yeah.
Brent:Um,
Liam:Along those lines, it's just, uh, yeah, like kind of with the flow. Um, you have to take like so many actions to like barely progress your board or like, basically like accomplish the like simple plan that you set out to do at the start of your turn, right? Like if it's just like VStar, summoning star and then primal Turbo, there's like so many actions that go on behind that takes a long time to
Mike:finish turns. Yeah. While we're talking about, uh, like bugs or funny stuff, Liam have. Have you played Zekrom at all on PTCG Live? I have not bad guys. It is so funny. So the Zoroark Transform ability, you're like, you click it and then you choose a Pokegear, you know, to switch with Zoroark and then it does a little animation and then you have to pick the Pokegear again a second time. It like you have to do it twice. And I haven't been brave enough to try picking a different Pokegear. You know, between the two different times. Cuz I feel like I might break the game if I do that, but I'm gonna try it soon. Maybe I'll do it in casual mode and see what happens. But yeah, you have to like, it prompts you to do it twice every single time. And I, and I don't know why. That sounds awesome. I think I, my guess is like the logic of how it's programmed is like you use the ability and then the ability. You know, triggers this, like what are you gonna switch with it? But then somehow the IT like asks, like the code asks it, zurk is no longer in the active, and then you like then have to replace it again, if that makes sense. So like you're choosing it once when you use the ability and once when you're replacing it. I feel like that's gotta be the issue. Um, it's just buggy. It's just buggy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, the other one, I tweeted it out, you guys might have seen, but when you use Reggie Drago VStar attack, you see the names of the a no no. You don't see the names of the attack. You see what the attacks do, not the names nor the damage. So like you just gotta know what all of your attacks texts are in order to, uh, know what attack you're going to use, which is funny. Yeah. But
Brent:you know, I, I, I mean, I think at some level, like the, the like, root question in my mind is, are they trying to build a thing that kind of is a duplication of the physical card game playing experience, or are they trying to translate that to a online version? Like, I feel like if, if the answer was the ladder, there's like 50 things you could do to speed it up. Yeah. Versus if you're just like trying to recreate the physical card game experience. Like there's, there's pros and cons to both, and I can understand how they could be like, we're training up the next generation of people who are buying physical card products so that we gotta do it that way. But like, I don't think they should be so dogmatic about it, uh, in the way that they've approached the problem, which is
Brit:interesting. Yeah. I, I agree. I feel it feels like they're kind of wavering between the two, like they're kind of in the middle of both, and I think. Understandably, the consistency would be better just to focus on one versus the other. Cause like with the, you know, board effects with all the, the field colors and things like that, like that, to me, really ev evokes like Pokegear Stadium, you know, like, you know, that kind of like design where, you know, you would be interacting with the, the changing battlefield and, and you know, that are thematic with the Pokegear types and things like that. While. Also kind of being the flipping coins and still being a physical space. So yeah, I feel like it would just be better to do one or the other. And like, I think, you know, similarly that, um, you know, take Yugi or something like that, like it, it does a much better job, I think, of being like, like the, the anime experience or something. Not just, not just, you know, tabletop card game.
So
Brent:on. Uh, um, Brit, I don't know how much coaching you've done. I realize like the latest big PTCG l complaint making the rounds on Twitter today. I laugh cuz I'm not doing any coaching, but everyone who's doing coaching is like, the timers. The timers, they're killing me. They're killing me.
Brit:I thankfully have not been doing, um, or at least here, thankfully, have not been doing a lot of like indi like game watching or anything like that, or, you know, one-on-one sessions, right? It's more been talking through, talking through texts and choice and things like that. Um, I'm a little blocked, at least in the past. If, if this were an issue, like I, you know, it was easy to release. Historically, I would maintain the PTCGO account and we could just play on my account. Uh, but my live account is very, very lacking. So that, that not being an option is like part of the story here as well.
Brent:Yeah. So, Mike, what, what rank, uh, what rank have you guys worked your way up to on the, in the like ranked ladder thing?
Mike:Uh, I'm like 1500. So that feels like decently high, but I don't know.
Brit:I'm not high still. I'm like in the second to lowest league or something. Still.
Brent:Same, same, like I, I think I, I, I had never really gone in and looked at the leagues before and I realized, oh my God, I have to play so many
Brit:games. I know. It's awful. It's, it's like, it's, it's definitely contributing to my lack of play because I just, like, I, it's just not fruitful testing wise. Like I just get play against starter X every round and like, cool. I can gauge my, if my deck is consistent, but not, not a lot else because there's just, you know, nothing but junk. Like,
Brent:like to get to the Arceus League. I mean, how many, how, like how many points do you get when you play a game?
Mike:Once you get past like the first couple tiers, then it starts becoming plus 20 or minus 20, and I don't know if it gets more than that. Yeah,
Brent:yeah. I think, I think that's, I think that's right where I am, but I'm just like, man, plus 20 is gonna take a long time because it takes like 25 minutes to play a game.
Mike:And it's a net. It's like net zero. Right. So you don't even, you don't get more points for playing against better people.
Brent:Right? Right. The good news is I'm playing lost box, so I win every game. Hmm.
Mike:Almost every, I
Brent:still want that. Get to 1500. That'll stop happening.
Mike:Yeah, man. Almost every game that I play is relatively competitive now. Um, I play against more archist decks than I would prefer, but other than that, um, it's pretty good play against a lot of Gardevoir, a lot of lost box. Still some Mira on, but not, not nearly as much as I was a couple weeks ago.
Brent:So I, I, you know, I was gonna save this for the, the lost box discussion, but is there some tech I could put in my lost box deck that autos mira on? I feel like there should be some fighting attack, or I should, I could add that would just like turn that, turn that match up into cheese. Cause I play it so much. I'm like, my God, we should cheese this
Brit:matchup. Does, does Aptos work on. No. Yeah, yeah. Or I guess you have the reg are in play, hopefully. Yeah. Reduce it.
Brent:Yeah. You just play, just play like one zap dose, right?
Mike:Mm-hmm. And, and you need fighting interview.
Brent:Yeah. You have to, yeah. And, and then you cut like a water for like a fighting and you just play like one fighting and yolo it.
Brit:Yeah, this, this was the version I played at the, the local I played before my cups this previous weekend. It was, uh, Mirage Gate, lightning Water Fighting. Maybe I didn't play Sableye, I don't remember, but. Doesn't seem bad, so maybe I played a lot of colors. I'm not sure. I don't remember, but it did play Zaps.
Brent:Yeah, I, I went and looked at like, some lists on Limitlesss. I was like, or, or like Trainer Hill where I was like, show me Dex that put a fighting in their lost box. And it, and the answer was Zappos and like one fighting and you just have to kind of yolo a little for the fighting energy. But like, it's great.
Mike:Mira's
Brent:pretty great. Alright. Alright, let's, let's do the intro. Welcome to the Trashalanche. It's everybody's favorite Pokegear podcast because it's the only podcast about the Pokegear trading card. Game 10 is a hundred percent, 133%. Liam was here a second ago, but I told him to let the dog out. Brits here. Mike's here. I'm here. Liam's back. We're, we're just straight up winning here. Um, no. Five star reviews, guys. I know listenership is growing. If this is your first time listening to the pod, You should go leave a review on the Apple Podcast thing because apparently that helps people, uh, uh, find the pod and we will read that review on the pod and discuss it. You will love it. Every time someone leaves a review, they inevitably say, that's the greatest thing I ever did. Um, dragon Shield sponsors us from time to time. Why? Uh, it's about that time where I tend to need to send'em a note, say to send us some new sleeves cuz we'd be sleeping up decks. Um,
Brit:I did play some dragon shields those past two weekends.
Brent:Ooh, that's what we like to hear. That's what we like to hear. Alright guys, let's jump right in. Uh, Brit you want to get us started? You've been, you've been playing some cups, right? I
Brit:played in my first one on Saturday. I. How'd it go? What happened? Uh, did not go well for me. I mean, it was, it was really big. It was definitely the biggest event, uh, we've had. So like, like the people I thought would travel, did, like, there was, it was a lot of people like, so this was in Springfield, Missouri, which is, you know, where I'm from. I, I live in Kansas City now, but that's, uh, more or less as a competitive Pokegear player. I've hailed out of that city for, you know, the vast majority of my career. Um, and so anyways, we have this newer store that I've talked about a few times on here that I really like. I really, they've got a really nice, like, local scene. The locals are, um, nice, cool and competitive getting their start and things like that, but solid local crowd. And then Kansas City came down, so there's a handful of players. I don't actually know where they are, tried to sort of contact them and to start testing with them, but I haven't succeeded in that aim yet. Um, but then Oklahoma came up as well, handful of players from like Tulsa and places like that. My, my round one opponent was from there, didn't recognize him, but he was familiar with like where, where I was playing the leagues I was at when I was there for grad school and things like that, which was really cool. Good to hear that. Um, the main one was still going and things like that. But anyways, so I played, uh, Charles, our lost box and we were unfortunately, um, I think one person short of the seventh round. Which made, which made meant four 11 was going to bubble. Um, well, only one did at the end of the day, but more potentially, we were, like, Ross and I were looking at the, the forecast for, you know, how, how it's gonna shake out. Um, Yeah, so I guess also part of that story too is that Ross lives in Kansas City now as well. He's a professor at a little liberal arts college, pretty close to me. Um, and so we, he, we didn't go down together, but we, I caught up with him for a long time, which is really nice. I'm pretty sure he must have been wearing Mikey. Uh, One of the Pablo Polos, I, he had like an ion, an ion polo. So it's like, I, I need in on that action now, for sure. Um, but yeah, yeah, it was, it was really good to see him and just chatting about being a professor and his tenure track and how he likes the city and the school and things like that. Um, but yeah, so round one I, so anyways, I played Charizard, which. Um, sort of was where my head was at independently of this, but it seemed like a, like loose consensus or at least a handful of other people in our little, the little trash lamp, uh, discord server that's been spun up. Um, you know, just throughout the season I. Seemed like the, you know, consensus with Tarr just like, seems like a pretty safe deck. Like, maybe not the safest, but just like on, on paper. Seems like you're in every matchup for the most part. Like, not everything is good, not everything is bad, but really sort of just like 50 50, 55, 45 down the line, I think. Uh, so it seemed like a pretty good place to start. And I like, I like Lost Box, but in the, the, the local I played the week before with the Mirage Gate version, um, I just, I struggle with the, that card sometimes it's just clunky. And I knew sort of, um, in, uh, like out out of the gate, I had no interest in playing Kyo, so it was just kind of more and more gravitating away from Lost Box. I talked to Mace a lot about, uh, his list. He'd went five, two, and two at E U I C with a list that he like worked on with Pedro, but his list ended up playing. Um, switchers instead. Um, you know, just kind of add switchers, cut a hand like four other, just like good-ish cards, not a whole lot, um, lost in consistency. Um, and I actually don't really think you need them. I feel like the maw is much stronger, of course, like this again, uncontroversial statement that I think the maw is, um, much stronger with cross switchers. But I played the maw this week anyways, and it, it felt really bad. Um, I don't know if I played it wrong, if it was a Meta game thing or both, but I don't feel like I would continue to play that card moving forward and like, Uh, Tate, just another player I talk with here and there, and group chats with, and he, he made top four basically with just Pedro's list as well. Um, he wasn't playing the maw Wild, but in kind of playing a few other things. And so I guess to finish that, I was playing, I was playing Pedro's list with two changes. Let me think. I, I did not play the Miltank, and maybe that was it. I played. Oh, no, no. I swapped a nest ball for a level ball so I could have a better target for halluc potentially. And then I cut the Miltank for, mm, I don't remember, just nothing. Something like a, another copy of something I already played. Uh, there was no sort of, One of spice or anything in the list. So no, nothing special here. I'm, I'm just drawing a blank on what it was. Uh, round one I played, I had a good series against Mew, or at least like I won, won a good first game pretty easily. I opened dead and conceded a second game pretty early and then I won the third game very convincingly as well. Holy, it
Brent:was best of three League Cup.
Brit:Yes. So that, that was a, that
Brent:was a good part. Dogs six rounds, best of three.
Brit:That was, that was a, a good part of, uh, Ross and i's early, early conversation. He's just like, are these all gonna be, you know, is this always two out of three? And I'm just like, I can't remember what Vince does in St. Louis off the top of my head. And those, those tournament organizers. But Kansas City, unfortunately the answer is yes. I, I think I've, I know I've talked about it on the podcast, um, b before, but I think, you know, the, the verbiage I have used to describe my, my, the history of my locals is scientifically engineered to waste as much time as possible. Oh my. And so, so we're, so this one was good. It was like an early start time, like a nine, 10 start time, even with two three. So I think it went pretty smoothly. Um, but anyways, you know, just the. Stories of the past, having events where like starts at noon, lunch break, top cut, break best of three. And it's like, I'm telling you, all of these things end after midnight. It's no good. Um, it's a, you
Brent:gotta start at 9:00 AM because it's an all day affair. Wow. Right,
Brit:right. All really hates themselves. Um, yeah. Yeah. But so, Yeah, I think it ran really well. I think in general it was a very smooth event and just really can't say enough good things about the store and the space. It's very nice, very new, very clean. Uh, they ordered us pizza. We had Little Caesars sort of, um, no lunch break also, which is great. Uh, just like grab a slice in between rounds. Um, and yeah, so then after that I played against Lugia and I just played, we played a really, really long game. One where, I mean, it just really bites. Like I just, like, I got four in the law zone on my going second, but I like missed the switch to attack with Kramer and it would've just been like an astronomically different game if I, if, if I had not done that. Um, but anyways, so I was just always kind of really, really behind in a really long game with Lugia and I decided to just like I made, I made an assumption that I think is wrong and it was something I thought about and something I talked to some, a bunch of other players there. It's something that I feel like. As an old player, it used to be the right thing to do, but basically I just said like, I don't know who I'm playing against. I'm gonna gamble here on them. Having a, like being bad and or having a bad list. And that's just like something you definitely, I think could have gotten away with like back in the day, like around two opponent even playing a meed deck. And now I'm just like, no, it just doesn't happen. Everyone is on limitless. Everyone is net decked. Like regardless of skill, like they're gonna come with the good list. So I just sort of was hoping I was gonna catch him off guard with ma while it was like my only wind condition. And I, I stayed in a really long game, um, to pull it off and I actually didn't even end up pulling it off. He like judged me and on my like, flower selecting after the judge, it was Pikarom and boss and I needed, I needed both of them to do it. So I, the whole plan didn't even pan out, but I, and I just kind of, I conceded the moment that happened and I asked him like, do you have the counter? And he, he played the Thornton anyway, so it wouldn't have. Mattered, but I just like stubbornly. I should have conceded really early in instead of trying to commit to this like 50 minute Mew wild game. Um, and then around three, I, I just like, I drew bad against a guard of war. I like lost, I lost both games. And like in the first game too was really frustrating. I go like, I go first not knowing what I'm playing against and just like Nest ball pa like Nest Ball, flower selecting pass. He started Ros. Yeah, he started Ros in v VIPs for, um, Greninja Roz, and then plays a Palkia Palkia for another v i p getting, you know, two rots. So he has threes, Greninja, and a manife. So one known is that right? So, No Zacian. I'm sorry. It was three Rots, Zacian and Greninja. Those are the five here. And so he just, he, he played a V I P, found a V I P F Palkia and just passes. And I like, I just draw Flower Select and pass and he goes, Kirlia, Kirlia, Kirlia research. Um, just like. Okay. Uh, and anyways, did not win that game. Um, and then Unformer, I then I dropped, um, just being out of it, out of contention on the spot there, which like, I don't knowable. You'd
Brent:already sunk three hours into it. Why sink another six hours, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brit:I mean, I felt a little bad. This was more just like I have. Stuff to do. I, like, I had, I like even almost stayed, did a 180 i I stuck around after dropping for a few minutes, like walked to my car almost was like, no, I should hang out for a little while longer. And then just decided like, no, I'd rather get home at five o'clock rather than eight o'clock. And just, just left there. Cause I had, I had a bunch of work to do. Stuff to do on Sunday. Um, but yeah, it was a good time. There's have two more this weekend. Um, don't, I think I'll probably just be going to one. Um, but potentially two. And they're in Kansas City, so the definitely will be playing them out I think won't have to need to drop to go home. They're
Mike:best of
Brit:one if they're Mm. I don't actually know. My assumption is Kansas City has always usually been best of three, but I don't, I don't actually know who tos anymore up here. So thing, things might have changed, but I am guessing. Nah. At least assuming.
Brent:Alright, Mike, you wanna talk about, uh, your tournament?
Mike:Yeah, I just had a challenge. Um, there was a League Cup on Saturday that was like almost. Three hours away that I could have gone to and I opted not to. It ended up being a pretty small cup. Um, it was the one that Chris, no, no, not Chris Franker. Uh, UL went to, I think it was only like five rounds. Um, yeah. There was only
Brent:like 20 people there. I, I think I was a little surprised.
Mike:Yeah. Um, but it was like three hours is pretty far. Fairly cut. They
Brent:heard you, they heard that you were thinking about driving and they scared him off.
Mike:Yeah. Um, so. I didn't, I didn't want go to that. Also, like I was only considering going because Kelly was gonna hang out with one of her friends that day, and then I wasn't gonna have anything to do, but then, uh, had to cancel. So I just, I. Made more sense for me to stay. Um, but then on Sunday there was a challenge right here in Philadelphia, only like 20 minutes away. It was really convenient. Um, I just played for like Mirage Gate, forest Seal, stone Lost Box. I took the Australian list, uh, the Australians list that they played at uic and I dropped. Four cards. Uh, basically I made it more consistent for Best of One. Uh, I took out the two boss's order for two poker years and then changed two other cards. I don't remember exactly.
Brent:Uh, uh, I, I wrote down exactly the cards you changed. I want to go through it after you talk about your job. Yeah,
Mike:yeah, yeah. Uh, and then, so it was just a really, it was a small league challenge. Four rounds. I beat, um, two Gardevoir s. I beat a lost box ARD that didn't play chorus and, or I mean like they played chorus in their deck, but they didn't play, they didn't play it in your
Brent:game. Alright. I was like, that's a fascinating lost box build you
Mike:have there. Um, and what was the last deck I beat? Uh, Oh, oh, I beat Audra. Uh, I beat Audra in the first round, which is like kind of a sketchy matchup, and the game was really close. Um, that was probably my best game of the day. Uh, beat Audra, one of the Guardian games was like a blowout. He didn't have a good start, but then the other Guardian game, I had a really bad start and still was able to win the game, which kind of. Told me that the matchup is still very, very favored for lost bucks. Um, so good event. Happy to get like one win down. If I, if I win like two League Cups and two league challenges, then I don't need to do that good at Hartford or NAIC, but I still need to get points at one or both of them to get the invite. Um, But most likely I'll need points at both of those events to get the invite. Uh, and I am gonna go to one week, uh, this coming weekend. So, uh,
Brent:uh, why the bre, why, why the Australian Lost Box list instead of Charizard and, and vice versa? Uh, for you Brit like,
Mike:I think the gr I think the GRS is a bit more consistent. Um, I think it's, It's a little more, there's like, I don't know how to explain it. It's like there's more options, but it feels more straightforward to play, if that makes sense. Like the Sableye Charar version. The more that I play it, the more I realize that there's like probably little lines that I'm missing and like the fact that. Pedro is like the one that did so well with it, kind of affirms that for me is like, he probably sees these like little tiny things that other players don't see. Um, while I feel like the Greninja version is like you do more stuff and I think there's more opportunities maybe to misplay on any given turn, but like the macro lines are not that. Hard to see. I feel like, um, and maybe that's the thing with the Sableye char, I feel like your, your macro game plans are actually quite complex because you have less options. Um, like you only have like Sableye or like your prize mapping has to be, I think, a little bit more Boltund decks. Your prize mapping has to be pretty on point, but I feel like save light charge are maybe a bit more so, um, And so I was just more comfortable playing that, especially I knew there was gonna be a lot of Gardevoir, uh, a lot of the Philadelphia players, um, were really excited for Gardevoir. Um, and when I got there, my friend was like, yeah, like half the room is Gardevoir. And so I was pretty confident in, in, in that
Brent:match trip. Brit. Any particular reason you, uh, opted for Charizard versus uh, uh, the
Brit:Australian list? Uh, well, other than just the particular complaints I've voiced about Miraj Gate where I just, it's so, it's like, it's so good, like when they're there at the right time, but sometimes it's just like the flower selecting are awkward. The choruses are awkward, and you, you're just like, you know, clutching at straws, grasping at straws for, you know, holding onto these energy and these resources and it just like, feels like it gets in the way sometimes. And I feel like, I mean, I definitely, it definitely. Like the biggest, you know, degree of difference between the two decks I think very obviously is Greninja. And of course how that adds to your consistency is, is crazy. Um, you know, not to say that the disable version plays enough energy, um, for it to utilize Greninja, like if it were to play it. Um, but just that those extra two cards every turn is, it's crazy. Um, but for me, I think it was largely, it was pretty outside again, to say other than that. But like, I'm not, obviously not gonna say that Mirage Gate is bad. I think it's really good, very. Realistically could see myself playing it like when it does work, it is, it is so much better. And like you just have so many, so much better answers. And I really don't have any, uh, anything more to add on kind of the way Mikey assessed it. I think that's, that's a really perfect way of framing it, that Naar does have way less options and I think is harder as a result. You have to be very sort of, Uh, had several turns ahead thinking about what you're gonna do. Cuz like, obviously you don't attack for, you know, the camera. Your, your whole game plan is on a couple stabilizing. You know, it takes a couple turns to get there. Um, for me it was mostly just gure. I just wanted a good guru matchup. Um, so pretty simple answer I think. Um, other than these slight preferences, um, I wanted a strong gut matchup. I thought that. Just seeing the local the week before, there was a couple, um, also, I guess not just a guru matchup, but I, I think you should be very, quite a bit favored into Mirage Gate. And so that, that was part of it too, is I, I expected the field to be mostly Mirage Gate and Gure and like, it's a, it's a close matchup. It's a variable one. Um, but I think on paper there's. Really no way to sit, think that Mirage Gate would be favored. Um, I mean, happy to hear disagreements there. Um, but I remembered it was, it was the second mane I played, I played two Manaphy was the, the, the swap that I couldn't consider in the list. And like, you know, that's obviously an inclusion for that matchup. Um,
Brent:yeah. Second management going all in
there.
Brit:Yeah. So it mostly just that, um, and just like, and, and Charizard is like, so neutrally good. Um, you know, it's just, it's just big damage against, you know, ideally two pricers and things like that. Where, um, I think the Mirage Gate, you know, I guess it depends, cuz Ri Raku is, is this, Raku is a versatile attacker. Kind of good in all, you know, most, most, uh, board states. Um, but sometimes you're, the way that you're, you know, you have Krekeler, you have Greninja, and if those attacks don't like really stack up well I think you can kind of have some awkward matchups as some mirage gate player. Um, but I think your guardian matchup is, is much better there. And in some of that, of course, as being that you can accelerate to drap on, like, I, that's a huge deal in the matchup, of course. Um, and so my guard war games like felt pretty awkward. I, I felt pretty unsure of how to beat it. I meant to go look at, look back at, uh, Pedro's, e u I c matchups. I was curious to see how many Gardevoir he played. Cause it, it felt pretty bad. Um, to me, like there's just not, not a whole lot I could do, um, like, unless I immediately got Sableye, but like as, as I explained, he got like, immediately got three Gardevoir and then three Kirlia out. So it was just like, you know, I felt very, got crushed in that game. Just absolutely nothing I can do other than just like trading up a Zacian. Pedro played
Mike:against exactly one Gardevoir. He did read it, but only one. Yeah. Makes sense. Good to know.
Brent:Um, on what you were saying
Liam:earlier, Brit, about how like Greninja doesn't feel like has great options if crime rate and Sableye does don't work. I feel like that's exactly the issue with radiance art. And radiance art isn't like awful, but in matchups, like Lugia, if you don't get like an early cram hit or an early Sableye or something you like, don't have a great way to make progress, right? Like if there's no damage when you're down, or like when your opponent's at like three prizes and you're not playing like Han or Basin or something like that, like. You don't have anything really to do for the turn. Like you can maybe stabilize the set of numbers for Radiance art or something like that, but you don't have like a great way to like take prices. Um, whereas I feel like at least like you can obviously build, uh, Mirage Gate lost to not get whatever you want. It's just about like what you want to
Brit:choose to be, you know? Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I think that's absolutely right. And, you know, something I thought about was like, I, I wish I had. Or something like in my deck, even if I had to triple attach to it, I, I think I would've gotten mileage out of it. But yeah, no, like completely agree with everything you said. You know, maybe I, I phrased it in the wrong way, uh, in, in comparing the decks, but yeah, as, as a problem for Charar, I, you know, I, again, couldn't agree more. That feels like, uh, I mean the does very good, don't get me wrong. And like, I, I do, I, I almost played a belt and it, I feel like it would, I would've beaten the Lugia player if I had, um, With like maw and ard and I had, I had s I had put some s eye damage on it. I had like killed anarchy off tos eye and put 70 or no dal on. He had went down to 50 from Serena and ARD would've killed it with the belt. Um, so that's, that's something I would like to, but yeah, more, more generally just like, yeah, I mean just whether it's Raku or whether it's the Greninja plays the Mirage Gates, like do have, you know, these other, other options and. Yeah, you just have to be more like meticulous in when you're gonna charizard basically. Alright,
Brent:so, uh, Mike, let's talk about your lost box list a little bit because I, I have to confess, uh, I think, so my adventures on, uh, PTCG Live, I started out playing the Char Art list and I ended up on the Australian list. And when I saw your changes, I was like, oh, the mike put in all the good cards. I took out the bad cards for Best of One, which is like the optimal PTCG live. But like maybe a question or two. So I, I just wanted to talk about it and, and share, share with the people, uh, uh, the, the, the big brain thinking here. So Brent ton's, like second place at, uh, the London Cup list your changes where you cut the two bosses orders and put in two Pokegear. Mm-hmm. I've only had one instance where I've missed the boss. Have you missed the bosses at all?
Mike:I mean, I haven't played too much, but I had already cut down to one boss and was playing with one for a while, and one boss is really awkward because you end up lost owning it like half the time. Anyway. Um, and Jeremy in our, in our group chat had a, a really good way to think about boss. In lost box the other day, especially if you only play one. He's like, if you play one and you lost own it, then your opponent's really not gonna play around it at all anymore. If you play two, you don't have to worry about that as much. But if you play zero, then you're never gonna lost own it, and they always have to play around it. I was like, I like that logic.
Brent:You know, obviously I'm playing, I'm playing the bad PTCG Live players, so, so like half the time they're not even trying to play around it and I'm like, man, I wish I could punish them for that. Yeah, yeah. But, but the, the two Pokegear are, are obviously like when you're playing the best of one or when you're climbing the ladder on PTCG. Live, the most important thing is finding Cobalion Russ early.
Mike:Yeah, exactly. Like that's why dude, I played a poker gear, one of the games at the League Challenge, and I whiffed and I was so angry. I was like, why am I playing this guard? Like, um, I, the exact
Brent:same thing happened
Mike:to me, but I, I think it's worth it a hundred percent in best of one to play, uh, to play more outs to chorus, whether you're cutting boss or some other card. But like I, it made the most sense to me.
Brent:Especially in like the Gardevoir matchups where they're just judging you repeatedly, knowing you have extra outs to find. Chorus is like, seems really
Mike:the one matchup where I think boss probably does matter quite a bit is the gja matchup. Cuz you wanna go, like there's sometimes you might wanna go escape rope boss to bring back up the gja or something like that. But other than that I don't think you really miss it that much. Yeah.
Brent:Uh, um, so the next change you made was, um, uh, I know I cut a nest ball. Yeah, you cut a nest ball and you cut a lost vacuum.
Brit:Okay. And I played a fifth
Brent:water. And you played a fifth water And a Ry
Mike:hunt. And a Ry hunt. Yeah. So the Nest ball for, uh, so the way that I was thinking about those is Nest Ball for water. Um, those are both like kind of consistency cards, um, because energy is, you know, fodder for gringa. Um, I felt like it was. Dragon I takes two water. Green Ninja takes two water. Um, there is sometimes where like you would prize a water you'd lost on water or both and like then it gets really awkward to try and get a tax off. So, I dunno, fifth water is kind of like a comfort pick as well. Um, I could see running for Nest ball I guess. I feel like the fourth nest ball is something that I've pretty consistently cut from my lawsuit index. Not cuz I think it's bad. It's just like, It's like super redundant. Um, if you hit even one v i p pass, like you just don't need nest ball, basically the whole game. Um, so running four seems like a lot, but it's also fine because like finding basics is so, so, so important on the first turn of the game. Um, and then cutting third vacuum kind of goes along with. Playing more consistency. Um, vacuum is just a horrible card in your opening hand. Uh, and so playing. I don't love Han to be honest. I think it's fine Han's also not a great card to have in your opening hand. Um, but I wanted another supporter since I was playing the poker years and Han gives you a little bit of consistency past turn one. Um, I mentioned in our chat we could play Arvin. I don't know, Arvin seems like okay to me as well for like a turn one supporter cuz it finds the forest hillstone, it finds v i p pass, which is like a pretty sick turn one. Um, so maybe if, if like, if you're just trying to optimize for best of one, Arvin is probably better than Rahan, but like, uh, obviously it's not as Ry Hunts have much more powerful cards later in the game. I only used it once in my four games in the challenge, uh, where. The Gardevoir player, one of the Gardevoir players was, had, I had two prizes left and he attacked. He like, what did he do? He judged me. I, he, he like, couldn't rock Sammy. He like judged me and attacked with Gardevoir EX and just hoped that I couldn't get the drap on play. And I drew, uh, I drew like double Mirage Gate and so then I just like Ry hunt for the drap double Mirage gate or something like that. So,
Brent:I gotta, I gotta tell you, I have really enjoyed playing the Ry Han. I mean, I think it speaks, it probably speaks to how terrible I am at the game, but like, uh, it is a incredible band-aid against like, rough mirage gates. Like I, I, I've had games where I had a lightning in my hand and I'm like, we gotta, we gotta attack with dragonite this turn. And like Rahan is just the Ultimate bail out there, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Mike:Yeah. It is really nice to be able to like preload one energy onto like Greninja or Dragonite and then. You don't need a Mirage gate to attack with it. The next turn. Yeah.
Brit:Yeah. Um, that's, it's really nice. Similar,
Liam:similar conclusion. It's a good ban. Um, but different logic. I, I, well, the direction I take that in is something that I've been trying out in like a few obox. So it's like, not o obviously not everyone, but specifically ones that are tro and Raku focus is cutting back on Mirage gates and then playing more rahan. So like just not playing four Mirage gates. Um, it's. Obviously if you're going for something like Raku plus Seal Stone, you need to be able to play boss that turn. But, uh, playing rahan feels better than playing Mirage Gates on most turns. So, uh, that, that is good. Assuming you don't need to like chorus or something, right. If you still have your supporter, um, Just an idea. I don't know if that's actually like that. Good, but it does give you some leeway on that. It's an option
Brent:to consider. Yeah, I, and, and like, like I've had, I've had a couple of games where like I've had the chance for back-to-back ninja turns, but I needed the Ry hunt to get the water back off the discards and like I could have recycled. But yeah, I, it was like, it was like turn two, turn three, and I, it just felt bad, you know, throwing away the recycler that early in the game. So, uh, being able to lean into the Ray hunt as a, as a way to get like a little extra acceleration seems super, super good. Just like times I've been able to power up a gr ninja or a dragonite outta nowhere where it would've been like a struggle or I would've had to like, You know, throw away a resource that I would've needed later in the game. Uh, but, but I was instead able to cheese with the Han. It's been, it seems super, super good
Brit:for me. Yeah, Han's a part. I really love it. I mean, I would play more potentially in the Triar deck too. It's always good and like, especially in this world where you gravitated towards like a Snorlax or some other attackers and things like that. Definitely like, The twin energy being gone is pretty huge, or at least, you know, compared to the way that like Inteleon ARD would play. It's like, I just miss it so much. I just wish I could get like 1, 1 1 attack off it, you know? Just that they've only taken two prizes, two or three.
Liam:Um, another, another note on Staples, I guess is yeah, the, the recovery from Discards really good. And obviously you do have the claros, but if you want to dig and recover from discard. Um, that comes up like a fair bit if you have to retreat your comfy manually like a few times early. Um, so right hand's, like good for those situations.
Brent:Yeah, and I think your, your point about the, um, uh, like if you, if you can't get that like early attack with a Cramorant, save eye off, like I feel like I, I had a, I've had a lot of games on the ladder where like I have enough stuff in the law zone where I could mirage gate. But not enough tos. And, and I, I'm left with a choice between attacking with Cram or like, because I'm playing the Australia list, like I'm able to attack with Greninja by using Mirage Gate. And because it's like, you know, low cheese ladder, like just hitting with the cram into whatever big basic they've dumped in the active doesn't advance my board state nearly as much as like sniping, uh, the double snipe on the bench, you know? I know, I found, I found it be super effective grinding, uh, ladder games. Uh, so the one question I had, um, that I wanted to ask you about for best of one is I feel like I've seen, um, a lot of people split their, uh, seal stones for best of one, and you just played the two forest seal stones just like the Australians did. Did you think at all about whether or not you would want the option to play the sky seal stone? I
Mike:thought about it, but like you have no way to find it except Rahan, I guess. Um, and like you just invest the one, you just wanna play the game as much as possible. Also, sky Stone, the best matchup that Sky Stone is. Four is Lugia. And I feel like Lugia right now is on a huge decline. And I didn't really, in particular at this tournament, I didn't expect any Lugia. And I think in general, in these best of one events, um, I would expect less Lugia for a lot of reasons. One, uh, I think it's placed in the Meta game is like really, really weird right now because, uh, cuz of like the existence of Dedenne and the existence of Lugia Dedenne. So like it's, it Luki is in a weird spot in the Meta game in general, but also it's such a good deck in best of three because it finishes three games. It's really fast, it's aggressive, and in best of one, it like loses that like extra edge pretty significantly. Uh, where Dex like lost box. Um, and to a lesser extent, Gardevoir become a lot better invested. One because they are. Fairly consistent and like they're able to play a whole game. One, um,
Brent:they have an engine to draw cards.
Mike:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So like Lugia is just like, for multiple reasons, like not gonna be as popular. And so if Sky seal stone, like the main reason to play size, sky seal, stone itch for Lugia. So it just seems like why would you play that and just play more consistency? I'd
Brit:dig it.
Brent:Um, So, so, uh, what are you guys gonna play this weekend?
Mike:Good question. I'm either, so I'm either gonna play the same thing. I could be convinced to play m um, I think Mew is pretty good in these best of one events as well cuz it's very consistent. Um, and then the other deck that I'm like giving some thought about, I haven't played it much until today, is Udra. I think Udra is like, pretty strong. Um, It has like pretty solid matchups across the board. Um, so yeah, those are the three decks that I'm considering.
Brit:I would play Gardevoir if I, I don't have the cards for it, so I, I can't imagine that I will, but I feel like that's what I would wanna play. Um, just in general, I feel like it has a strong, like, game one in game, you know, I had strong festival and Earth Strong. Um, best of three, and I just, I don't know, it feels like it's just seizes cards in a way that the, I don't know, I just feel like lost box can be so inconsistent at times, and there, there's no solve for it. And like you, you solved it by playing best of three. Um, But yeah, so like, it, it's Dedenne dangerous, I think, to playbox and dust of one for sure. And like, I like Mew, I think is the next kind of where you go next. And I just don't personally ever wanna play that dag, but it's very, it's very good and very clean, very plain, very simple. There's like just not a lot. That you do? Um, I've been trying to chew on some other, like, just Judge p ideas or I guess Palkia isn't necessarily one, but I'm thinking about Palkia a lot. Maybe I'll, I might mess around with a Palkia deck, um, since I'm not gonna grind them for points or anything. I feel like I'm just gonna do like some splunking, I'll just, I'll just test some decks out, you know, and these kinds of formats rather than on live and like, I've to toward posted Arceus, but I was thinking about that independently of that, but it's just a little more on my mind recently. Um, seems like it could be. Okay. Um, other, other than Riku, seal Stone, that's, uh, seems very bad. But everything else I know my, I know Mikey's talked about it, has tested it more than I have at this point and thinks it's terrible, but I'd still like to try it a little bit, I think. Wait, which deck? Palkia.
Mike:Oh, Palkia. Uh, I only played a couple games. Um, I think it has potential, but I was really put off by, I was really put off by energy search. I guess I'm, I'm just, I was just so used to capacious bucket being like so broken. I feel like I, you just gotta play the deck differently. Like I was really prioritizing getting out radiant grin, intro and using concealed cards like on turn one, which I think maybe is not the way to play the deck and just, Ignore Greninja. Like think of Greninja more as an attacker rather than your consistency. Uh, and then you just at, you just gotta attach energy cuz you have way less access to energy throughout the game. Um, I think it has some potential though.
Brit:Yeah, I was gonna try like, I don't know, the en a lot of energy and like four energy search. I think just try to do them. It's so bad here, at least just like it's, the difference between IT and bucket is just like so much more than just the one card. You know? At least on paper you might think, oh, it's only the difference of one, it can't be that bad. But then you, you have to remember how it affects, you know, say your debt composition or something like that and taking two cards out, you know, that's way better than one and you know, you, it's doing that. Multiple times and thinning your deck. So it's like the thinning that is, you know, compounds wide bucket is so good. Not just the fact that it's two energy over one. Uh, but, so to try to replicate that with more, more copies for energy search and like a lot of basic energy to try to discard and attach or discard with gr Ninja and attach every turn if you can. Like, feels like there's something there towards his kind of, his classic, just like four, four Palkia. Um, I would maybe try ice Rider. I know it's like, It just seems like neutrally strong to me. Like I don't wanna build like a focus around it, like kind of the, the hybrid deck that existed like last summer for NAIC and things like that. But like, it seems strong just to like, you know, hit something big. And Palkia numbers are good. It feels like there's something there. Oh, I don't think your last bots matchup is terrible. Yeah, I mean, you, if you can kill man, if you and Gren injured them, you obviously win.
Liam:I, yeah, I was gonna say, I, I do think p gives numbers are pretty bad. Like, since Lugia came out with V Guard, like that matchup is just like awful. I I don't even know how you fix it, right? Traditionally you trade with things that have three 10 by using Greninja, but now like that, that doesn't work cause you only get two prizes for the three that you give up. Um, so yeah, like Lugia is pretty awful. You lose Inteleon. So like, dealing with lost box seems just like much, much worse. Um, like pretty ironically because it's hard to hit the, the Gringle play, you also lose the two Manife. Um, Gardevoir seems pretty fast as well, and like once they start evolving, the gringle play is pretty bad. Like, I just don't know how you hit
Brent:anything. And then obviously the issue with the
Liam:bucket. You can't find energy that fast. So like the deck is just like a lot slower and it's like power levels decreased compared to the rest of the Meta. I, I don't see any reason to play it. Um, I know a lot of people are like looking at it right now because it's like Palkia was
Brent:like so good nothing could trade with
Liam:it. Um, at Worlds, right? But like, V Guard came out now it's auto, um, and like the, it was Inteleon and the Dex.
Brent:I, I don't like it. Inteleon. Um, any, uh, does any of this, uh, uh, lead into Hartford or is it like play cups, figure out, figure out things? Or is there, is there any incremental commentary we need to
Mike:add? Well, Portland is before Hartford, so I know, I know we're not going, but I do think that'll be a pretty important data point. Yeah. Cause personally, I think the Meta game has. Very high potential to be very different from E O I C. Um, I think per, and, and maybe we could talk a more in depth about that next week, but like my initial thoughts right now are like, Gardevoir is the most played deck, um, lost box, sees a drastic decrease in play, but does a lot better relatively, uh, and. Like Lugia sees also significantly less play. Um, not like crew, not, not non-existent, but like, not pushing 20%, like maybe 12%, something like that. Um, but I think, I think the big thing is like Gardevoir, I think sh. Probably will be and maybe should be the most played deck. Like I think Gardevoir is just very, very, very strong
Brit:overall. Yeah. I imagine just talking about what I would play if I could. Like that's my thoughts. I, I think that I, I think that similarly later, at least Lu I feel like will see comparable numbers, but it will just do like so much worse as well.
Mike:Yeah. Like I think people will play the Gardevoir first. Lugia matchup like a bunch. I don't think it was played. That much going into E U I C and I think people will like kind of figure out that it's close, but like definitely favored for
Brit:Gardevoir. It's definitely, yeah. I was gonna say, I don't even know if, I think it's that close. I, it's definitely favored for Gardevoir, I think. Yeah, it's really strong. But that, that doesn't just say you can't adapt though. There's maybe, there's maybe cards and lines to fix it. And I mean, Lugia is an Arceus, so versatile. There's lots of things you can do within that package
Mike:still. Yeah. So I think, I think Portland will be like really important going into Hartford. It's interesting because, you know, we're, we're coming out of a format of basically five months of not really changing, like percentages of metagame did not change from tournament to tournament for five months. And I think this format, while maybe not as, Good quote unquote, as last format, and that's kind of debatable. But I do think it's good in the sense that things will change a lot from major tournament to major tournament. Even if the dex don't change, I think the share of them will change.
Brit:Yeah. I forgot to complain about, uh, forgot to go on a tirade about battle v i p, but maybe, maybe next week. Yeah.
Brent:The, the, the high rolling definitely
Brit:continues. Yeah. It's where, or like a hyperbolic, uh, clickbait ending. Mikey says, worst. One of the worst cards ever
Brent:printed. Yeah. Alright, guys, let's, let's wrap it up. We'll see everybody, uh, next week to preview Portland. A little sweet.
Mike:Do we have a, would you rather
Brent:or No, no. No. Would you rather, I gotta, I, yeah, I gotta, I gotta be better prepared. Tuesdays are tough for me cuz I have a four to five meeting, so I spend no time like thinking about this before we, we started up, but, but we will come back with, would you rather next week and, and hopefully Caden Hyde will be back with us too. And then we'll be ready to like, really, really do the thing. Nice. See what embarrasses high school students more.
Mike:All right. Sounds good.
Brent:All right, see you. Thanks guys. Thank you. Very, very interesting. Uh, Mike, I got, as I said, I gotta tell you, I, uh, um, The Han made a big difference for me in my PTCG live games. I'm teasing people faster than ever now, and I appreciated your tweaks to the list. It was, uh,
Mike:it was good stuff. I'll keep messing around with it too then.
Brent:Yeah. Yeah. That I, I, I like the fifth water. I like the Ry han. It all seems, uh, um, uh, yeah. Optimized for best of one, which is like what I was trying to figure out.
Mike:Yeah. Makes sense.
Brent:Yeah. Love, love. Are we off the record now?