Caden, I, I mean, I, I recognize the, uh, on the one hand, like to your point, Caden goes to school. So like telling him to wake up at six 30 in the morning to a podcast is not like a thing that's completely out of character. Yeah. But, but all, yeah. Also, uh, like this is the challenge of West Coast is like, normally we recorded either like five, normally we recorded five. So it's a struggle, uh, uh, logistically for him, uh, historically either way. Well, you know, going for the early morning thing was the best case scenario for him, but also rife with the potential that he just simply does not show up. So Caden might show up, but we're not, we're not gonna count that against him. Let's, uh, uh, let's jump right in because we do have a hard stop in an hour. Uh, it's the early morning edition of the Trashalanche podcast. Eh, the only podcast about the Pokegear trading card game. Uh, Brit, Pybas, Mike, Fouchet, Brit, Halliburton. We're all here. We're on Twitter too. Uh, if you leave a five star review, we will read it on the pod. Speaking of which guys, Got a five star review.
Brit:Nice
Brent:Hardworking Pokegear podcast does good. You guys have been putting out quality content week in and week out, and it felt bad seeing you guys asking for a five star review each week. So here it is. Love the chilled out casual, low five vibe of the podcast. Feels like just sitting in on a group of friends talking Pokegear. Keep up the grind and good vibes. Scott free 77 via Apple Podcast Australia.
Mike:Nice. That's a, that's cool. Nothing really to comment on. Uh, I, I think we do try to do the chill vibe of, uh, of all the podcasts, so happy to see that. Yeah.
Brent:I feel like the highlight there, Scott, is, is now when we, I mean we still have to ask for reviews every week cuz we need the reviews and apparently people say it helps people find the pot and we like to read the reviews, but now every time we ask for reviews you can be like, I was part of the solution instead of part of the problem. And, and like all you non reviewers, you can just think about that. Scott's just living that life. He's hearing us talking right now and he's like, I left review, I'm a good person and people haven't left reviews. You're, what are you? You gotta ask yourself. Alright, anyway, dragon Shields our sponsor, they make the best sleeves, eh, um, but let's, uh, let's dive right in, guys. Cups challenges. How's it going?
Mike:I didn't think I was gonna play any cups or challenges, uh, the past week, but I did play one last night actually, and I won with Guardian. So I have got two challenge wins now, so I'm good with challenges.
Brent:All right, so, so does that mean guardian's, the play for Hartford? Are you like, wow,
Mike:I love Guardy. I mean, I really like Guardy and I'm still considering it, but I'm not sure it's the play. I played Guardy last night because I didn't think there was gonna be very much lost box. And that's the big thing. Holding Guardy back, missed the lost box matchup, uh uh,
Brent:was, was your guardi list spicy in any way?
Brit:Uh,
Mike:no. It was towards list. Minus Penny plus a second, um, Arceus guard and minus the fourth Juniper for a Serena. So nothing, nothing too crazy. How about you Brit? Any
Brent:exciting, uh, cups or challenges lately? No,
Brit:I don't. I, I have one and, uh, maybe another week or so. There was some this past weekend that the people I've been. Not traveling with directly, but just kind of going to the same stuff with, I know they went, they went down to Oklahoma this past weekend. I had like a fighting game thing in Kansas City. I've just gotten kind of like more and more involved with that from the like organizer sort of side of things. Like I'm just a volunteer, I'm not like actual staff or anything like that. But I, I've been helping run our like big events and Street Fighter six comes out at the end of the month and um, we're just, it's gonna be like, Pokegear coming back after Covid or something like that. Just like the num numbers are gonna be crazy for the first couple weeks. And so we're just kind of doing a lot of, uh, prep work for that, um, to, to run some awesome events coming up. Um, but no, so I, I missed out and, uh, uh, last week and our Mikey and I's Little, um, podcast without Brent. I talked a lot about, you know, being high on Arceus Tina for the most part, and I like. Still feel that's generally true. I keep really do, coming back to Charizard Box mostly just because I keep seeing, you know, people, Mew players who are much better and smarter than me, you know, playing it and doing well. So every time that happens I'm just like, I've missed something. Or you know, I'm overly pessimistic and my, you know, my character isation of this matchup and things like that. So I keep coming back to that. And like if I were at events, I think I would just keep playing slight iterations of that. I feel like people. Um, these better players like Keon, and I know in our group chat, I think John hang played it at a challenge and it seems like the, these people that are playing it and myself seem to be developing the deck in the same direction, which is again, is sort of nice and reassuring to see and just like. Max in consistency more than anything else. Like it's bizarre that, I mean, it's just really the, the cost of not having Greninja, you know, have factoring that into your sort of lack of consistency compared to the other versions because like, it's strange cuz like you play more balls and like more switches usually than the, um, You know, the, the GR Greninja version, but still, like, you don't get to the, you know, the seven 10 and Theum is fast. Just seeing those cards is just that strong. Drawing the cards and thinning your deck by losing energy and things like that. And obviously the Greninja synergizes well with, you know, doing your Kyo thing too, obviously that just sort of makes it work in the end game and things like that. But anyways, all that to say is that I just like, Still think it's like pretty solid against most things. It's, you know, it has to work in a lot of matchups, which I feel like the Mirage Gate version just doesn't, you know, so to speak. And that like, and I've expressed this a, a great number of times already, I think, but just like when. The loss, you know, when the Mirage Gate version draws well, like, I think it is just plainly the best deck and, but it is just finding those games where you're not drawing so optimally. But anyways, just, um, trying to just max, consistency Max, just like how fast you can get to the law zone playing things like, uh, the fourth Pokegear, just really digging for Cobalion risks as often as possible, as well as, um, I forget what it is, but it's not like Rescue Stretcher. There's like an equivalent card that can like help, help you play CLA as a trainer essentially. And I think that helps because in a lot of matchups. You really want to, or it's, it is strong to be aggressive early with Charar, you know, whether you're playing like Han and Bass too. But you get into these weird spots where if the Charizard is dead and you're facing the hand resets and things like that, it's basically impossible to, you know, you can't Clara and boss in the same turn. And you know, no, none of us are really playing the cross switcher versions anymore. And again, like you have these sort of strengths. When you do play that, but I think the overall consistency is just better on the other side of things. But anyways, you get into trouble when like your chars artist dead and you have to draw out of judge. Like you just, you can't win in those games. So finding these like, sort of trainer options, uh, to do something similar to Clara is strong. And, you know, similarly people are going, have gone up and stable accounts a lot. A lot of these decks are playing three instead of two now. And you know, you kind of can do similar things just with two there. But yeah, no other, no real sort of thoughts. Just again, kind of looking forward to trying Arceus stuff into the next format outside of just these lost box concerns. Mm-hmm.
Brent:Uh, you know, I, I, uh, I keep asking Liam as he works on the crazy deck for Hartford. You guys know, uh, um, why he doesn't just play Lost Box and he's always just like, I, I don't know what it is. That deck is just really hard to play. Yeah. And he finally, he finally played at a challenge this past weekend and he lost one round to, uh, Abri, I think. And he was like, that matchup is hard. I understand why people say that that matchup is hard. Um, uh, but, but, uh, it seems pretty good. Seems
Mike:pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's less that the deck is hard. I mean, the deck is very hard, but I think it's, it's that compounded with having to play best of three, nine rounds with that deck. Like I would, I would play the deck in a heartbeat for a league cup. Best of one six rounds, top eight. Like, that's reasonable for, for, for me. Um, But doing it for nine rounds plus maybe another six rounds is just a bit too much personally.
Brent:Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I, I have now, I think, I think the deck maybe it speaks to, uh, I mean, I'm playing the Mirage gay version as, as I've said on, uh, uh, on PTCG L and, uh, for basically every game that I play. And I think it, it speaks to probably how the, the deck is improved, that it's just, uh, I don't have nearly the problems I used to feel like, I used to feel like I, every, every turn, every time I flower selected, I was like, oh my God, this is horrible. I'm like, definitely choosing the wrong card here. And, but I, I feel like it's gotten a little more straightforward how to play. I don't know. I feel, uh, less intimidated by the deck for
Brit:some reason.
Brent:That's good. Um, the other question I wanted to ask about, uh, uh, league Challenges in Cups guys is let's talk about league challenges in Philadelphia.
Mike:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, so hit on it really briefly at the end of the podcast last week,
Brent:but yeah, I didn't get the comment. I feel like, yeah. I gotta, we gotta come back around to it for a
Brit:second. Yeah.
Mike:Yeah. So, yeah, I took over this league, red caps. And it's been around for a while. Uh, we kind of assumed that since they hadn't been doing League at all that events that they wouldn't be able to run challenges or cups. But I hit up, Pokegear sent a support ticket, and they're like, actually, yeah, you can. Um, so I was like, okay, sweet. Uh, which is kind of weird when I hear some stories about other stores, like not being able to run these tournaments, but, you know, I'll, I'll take what they give me. Um, And so we've been doing league every other week on Wednesday evenings, and so we're gonna have our first challenge, uh, the Wednesday after Hartford. Um, I think it'll be pretty small, probably like, you know, 15 people or so. So I think I'll be able to run that myself. I ran a, I, I used Tom for the first time, last league to do like a, just a, a little tournament during league, just so I could get familiar with it. And it seemed pretty straightforward. Um, And then, so yeah, we got a challenge the Wednesday after Hartford, and then June 3rd we're gonna be running a League Cup. Uh, so that'll be really fun. I probably need to get a second person to help me run that event cuz it'll be a bit bigger. Um, and that'll be on a Saturday.
Brent:Uh uh, that's also the same weekend as Milwaukee.
Mike:Yes, I know that is, uh, partially the reason that we did it that day. Um, so it was like we had the option of doing June just based on what the store's availability was. We could either have done June 3rd or June 10th, and there was already another cup happening on June 10th in like Jersey. So that was part of it, but also I was like, this is gonna be my first cup. I would rather it be a little bit smaller and a little bit more casual and not attract the, uh, point chasers. Right,
Brent:right. The, the rales and Johns coming up from, uh, uh, Virginia desperately chasing, uh, sub
Mike:cup points. Right, exactly. Um, have it be a little bit more chill. The first, my first event, uh, my first like cup event. Uh, so that, that did play into it.
Brent:That that is, uh, that is funny. I, yeah, I mean, I would say, oh, I'll, I'll come up and help you, but like, nah, I think we're doing something that weekend. So there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, uh, so how has I, I saw that on, I saw on Pokegear dot com, it was like, if you wanna pre-register email, Mike, here's this email. Are, are you getting a lot of pre-registration?
Mike:No. So I also, there's a Philadelphia Discord, um, that. Has all the different like leagues and local events going on here. So I also posted on that and I just said, you know, if you're planning on coming, just let me know. So I got some people saying through that. But no, nobody's else has emailed me and that's kind of what I figured that the this first challenge will just be a. Like really the locals that show up anyway. Um, and then the leak cup, we're having a bit more formal of a pre-registration process, uh, through the store's website, but I haven't set that quite up
Brent:yet. Uh, I was gonna ask you if you've thought, if you thought about trying to use RQ nine. I recognize there were a couple of cups in the pre Covid era that we're using RQ nine. I don't know how much people are using it now, but
Mike:Yeah, I haven't looked into that at all. I assume that they charge something. So I'd have to like figure that out.
Brent:Right, right. Um, so have you thought at all about capping attendance for the league challenge?
Mike:Well, like, technically yes. There's a cap. I just don't think we'll reach it. Um, cuz there's other games that play stuff on Wednesday night. So like we can really only fit like max 20 people. Um, but I don't think we'll reach that. We, the leap challenge that we had last night, uh, at this other place had 12 or 13. So, um, and then the cup definitely will, will have a cap because there is a, there's a one piece event going on at the same time and the space is pretty big. Like in total they could probably fit like. 60, 70 people. Yeah. Red caps a really nice story. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, with the other event going on, so we're gonna do pre-registration for both of the events, and then if one of them fills up much more quickly than the other, we'll increase that cap basically.
Brent:Gotcha. Gotcha. Very, uh, exciting.
Mike:Yeah, I think it'll be cool. It, it, it'll be a nice way for me to like dip my toes in organizing and judging without going full Chris Semanski. Um, and see if I like it. Uh, and if I do, maybe I'll, you know, keep doing the, the more local stuff for a while maybe eventually I would try to judge a regional, but, um, but I think this will be a nice slow easing myself into potentially a different role within the community. I think it's fun to try
Brent:things out, you know, uh, uh, part of the reason I asked this, uh, one of our local league challenges, the, the infamous, uh, for people in Virginia area fosters grills, uh, grill, uh, cups, uh, are, or challenges. He always kept attendance at 12 cuz he didn't wanna do more than three rounds. He was like, he was like, we are wrapping it up guys. Right, right. For the first second, the tournament starts. We're already ending it.
Mike:That's funny.
Brent:Which I, I think is, uh, on the one hand, yeah, like, it was like hilarious and weird, but also like you knew in three rounds, this, this, this tournament's over. Yeah. Like we will be done in less than two hours. There's just no scenario where this tournament takes more than two hours. And, and the answer was like, it was definitely gonna take two hours because it was, uh, always chaos. But, but like, you know, at least he had a checkback to try to, to tame his own, uh, tendency towards chaos. All right. Uh, um, let's talk about Hartford for a second. What's, uh, what's gonna be the big deck, guys?
Mike:So here's some of my, like number predictions. I think glass box probably stays right around 20%. Being the most popular deck. I think Gari drops, gari was like 20, was about 20% in Portland and 12% in E U I C. So I think it's gonna fall somewhere in the middle, maybe like 15 ish. Um, I think like Gari doing pretty bad overall and like the resurgence of Lost Box is, uh, a pretty big deal. I mean, I think Guardi will still be pretty popular and it's not a bad play, but. It's not gonna be as hyped going in as it as it was into Portland. Um, so, so lost box, about 20 guardi, 15, maybe a little bit lower even. Um, I think Lugia and m stay right around where they were. Maybe Lugia gets a little bit of a bump. Um, Lugia may be like 12 to 14 Mew, like 12 ish as well. Um, Guru stays about the same 5%, maron 5%, and then Arceus probably gets a bump. Um, so Arceus Aino wasn't even on the graphic for Portland day one, but then it was day two. Um, so I think Arceus variants in general were will also be in that like 10 to 15% range. Um, maybe on the higher end of that, toward closer to 15. I don't think Artina will be. 15%. I do think art will be like the most popular, but I think just looking at all the Archeops fans together, probably pushing 15%. Um, so I feel like it's a pretty balanced meta game if Mew, Lugia, Archeops, Gardevoir are all kind of like roughly the same in that 10 to 15 range, and then lost box being a bit more popular than everything else. So that's kind of where I'm at, at least for the meta share.
Brit:Yeah, I think we said this last week, but to me, I mean not, not to really add any more to what Mikey says, but it just seems like we've almost just come full circle to the E U I C meta game again, cuz we get in, we get in the scenario that's like, um, well lost box. Lost box is well positioned again. You know, we might say as we did for E I C, the grin loss boxes is probably the best deck, but what are the consequences of that? Well, Lugia is a little bit better. I think Lugia is, is is decent against both the lost decks, like it is stronger against ard for sure, for obvious reasons. Um, but I think you have, you, you have a pretty solid matchup into both of them, assuming the sort of consistency concerns of Lugia. Um, goes your way and then, then you just get into the same thing. Well, okay. If Lugia is sort of slightly better positioned, what does that mean for Gardevoir? You know, what does that mean for Gure and things like that? And just to me that this just almost sounds, or, I mean, at the very least, say it sounds eerily similar to you. I see. As far as I can tell. Um, which means we might just get another like Gardevoir where like Gardevoir slips in, like all these other decks are sort of, kind of like, Lost box back a little bit and their conversion rates and things like that, like in the gures, in the Lugia, and then Gardevoir just is, is so strong into those matchups while having good matchups into like fine matchups into, into Mew and things like that. As well as, um, like your rcs matchups as Gardevoir are pretty fine. Like, uh, obviously I think the embryo versions are what you want to dodge the most of by quite a bit, but. Other than that, like, I, I mean, Mikey correct me if I'm wrong here, but like I, I feel like is pretty, should at least be like 55, 45 if not 60 40. Like the Arceus Argentina, like that matchup seems pretty good. Yeah, for sure. If you don't, if you don't just kind of get, um, picked off one by one, something like that. And especially too, cause you've got like even attacking with. Um, Chris and Shinx, our con Gardevoir is like pretty strong. Cause that deck doesn't have like one prizer to try to trade trade with you with. So if you have like strong knockouts with something like that or deal with the damage, all you have to do is kind of make sure the one Giratina doesn't like, really doesn't take four prizes on you for the most part.
Mike:Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I, I. I want to, maybe I can bounce off that a little bit. So yeah, I do think Guardia is favored into Arceus, Tina. Um, and I think Garia is also slightly favored into Lugia, but both matchups are pretty close. Um, the one one like really easy change that I'm gonna give away, some really prime advice right now for guarded war players. Really easy change to make to your list to improve those matchups, I think. Fairly considerably is to play two of the torment, ROS or the, the memory skip vaults, the 60 HP one, um, instead of just one. And the reason why is think about how both of those matchups go down. Like in a, in a typical game, the lu, the luer, the Archeops player will take the first knockout with Lugia or Arceus. If you then immediately send up that memory, skip rods and hit them for 10. You've done a couple different things. You've brought their HP down at two 70, which means one whole less energy for a Gardevoir or a Zacian to knock out. That by itself is a big deal, but it goes, it's much better because then like what do they do then? So Arceus, they, if they have accelerated to a Giratina, they have to then like, Retreat to the Giratina and knock out the rots with the Giratina. That's not great. Or they have to like escape rope and then retreat back into the archus. That's not great. Um, so it puts Arceus in a really awkward spot. Um, and then against Lugia. One of the ways that Lugia tries to beat Gardevoir is to just keep attacking with Lugia in the early game, um, and force Gardevoir to KO that Lugia as quick as possible, which then takes away the Sky seal, stone play later in the game. Um, but by using the rolls, you force the Lugia to the bench. Then they have to take a knockout with evil, tall or Tyranitar. Uh, and then it gives you the opportunity to later in the game boss up the, the Lugia Skys hillstone, and then take three prizes. So, The inclusion of two memory skip rods is like, been incredible for those matchups. You do lose like a couple percentage points in the lost box matchup because you have two 60 h p rods, but like, it's literally, it almost never comes up. Um, and I think the benefit of really giving yourself a really strong line in those match ups, uh, is, is worth it. So highly recommend going tutu on routes. Yeah, I
Brent:feel like the situations where Sable I could take advantage of, of the the two 60 HitPoint T is like, you have to already be losing horribly to find yourself in that moment, right? Yeah, exactly.
Mike:So highly recommend, um, the include if you play two Arceus, con, guardian, those matchups also get better as well. Um, cuz uh, You're, you know, taking one shots with a, with a single er, um, you can still win with only one, but that's another thing. If you wanna tech more for those matchups, that's a easy change to make as well. Include the second
Brit:Arceus. How has the second
Brent:Archana been, I assume good you won Lead challenge.
Mike:Yeah, I mean, I really like it. I, I, for a long time I was playing a list more similar to my E U I C list, which ran heavy ball rescue carrier. No double Zacian, uh, no lumion. Um, and then, uh, so I always had double Arceus. Uh, but as I've been playing, I really do like lumion ion's really good. Uh, and then if you play Lumin, you're kind of forced into playing some of the other cards that tour played, like the second Zacian, the collab stadium just make a lot of sense. And so, uh, finding space for that second archana is a bit harder. Um, I cut the penny, which I think is fine. Uh, but I, I, I really do like two con Gardevoir. Make sure Rick handy so much better as well.
Brent:Uh, you know, one of the things that's I think has surprised me as I've played towards list is like when I first saw Towards List and I saw the second station, I was like, oh, second Station. That's really good. That's really good. I find I rarely actually use the second
Mike:station. Yeah. It's true. Like I, I,
Brent:I don't know why it is. Cause like the first time I saw it I was like, oh, second Zacian, that'd be so good. That'd be so good. And maybe the moral story is just like, every time I prize Zacian, I was like, oh God, this is gonna be a rough, rough game.
Mike:Yeah. I mean that's definitely part of it. Another thing that I think comes up a bunch is you don't want to bench Ashi in early and basically any matchup and then. So a lot of games you have to research it away and then you're forced to like Miriam back, which can be awkward, but if you just have two, then you don't care if you research one away. Yeah. Yeah.
Brent:Good times. Um, any other stuff we should talk about for, uh, uh, uh, Hartford? I feel like, I feel like, I mean, I don't wanna say that the meta stale, but like, yeah, it has been like three tournaments of uh, same format. And it sounds like, uh, to Britt's point, uh, it doesn't seem like it's evolving a lot.
Brit:Draw from the, the three events over the weekend. Cause there was like two, there's like the, uh, regionals in the Philippines, the special event in Columbia and, uh, one more I think Indonesia. Indonesia, yeah. Indonesia. Yeah.
Brent:Obviously everybody, everybody took away that stacking your opponent's deck is a great way to, uh, feed them.
Brit:Yeah, but it was, I mean, two wins from you. Um, and then Andrew Hendrick winning with, um, good ultra ninja Obox, but like mm-hmm. Uh, uh, I mean, that means something. I think, you know, it's, it's data at the very early least, even if it's, you know, a smaller piece of, it's, it's hard to know. Mew, Mew is such an interesting deck because unlike, say Argentina or something like that, where you see. You know, maybe a player, you know, about my skill level who likes, you know, a lot of different decks, you see that result and be like, Hey, I'm gonna play the new deck. I'm gonna play that deck that just like won at my next tournament. And I don't feel like Mew, Mew as a deck, as an archetype. Like insights that kind of like interest cuz people, you know, it's so. Um, polarizing as a decker, you know, you just really have to bite the Bulu on, drap on, you know, ruining your day and things like that. So it's, it's difficult, you know, I don't know if this, that made sense. I don't feel like me winning doesn't necessarily motivate anyone to play Mew. If anything, it might motivate the opposite, which I don't think is necessarily true. Right, right. There's certainly no one is, I don't think anyone. Um, good. Anyone reasonable making, um, you know, their deck choice for this weekend and things like that is thinking, oh no, I got a tech per Argentina now. Like, no, I don't think anyone is gonna go out of their way to beat that. Um, whereas Mew, of course, you know, people do go out of their way to beat in a variety of different ways. Um, but yeah, I don't necessarily, I feel like a Mew will still just have kind of the same meta share that it's had, you know, throughout all these events. I don't feel like it's. Anything. Um, and I guess neutrally, um, Andrew Hendricks, when is like just further validating, that is good, right? Yeah. It's nice to see it get a result I guess like outside of Japan and things like that.
Mike:Um, yeah, I do wanna note that Andrew's list is different than all the lists that top eight. Um, Uh, Portland, like Semanski played the Ults Kyo Build Azul, or sorry, grant played, um, Turbo, but with Kyo. And then Andrew Gantner played Turbo, but with like Lumin and Ultra Balls. And then Andrew's list is kind of more just. Standard Turbo. Uh, he ran the gears instead of like Lumina and Ultra Ball, uh, a bit less on the lost vacuum count, and he played a split of Forest seal in Skye. Uh, so one, one. So we, you have like that, that's like one of the scariest things about going up against a lost box deck is like, you never know what's gonna be in those last five, six cards until the game is basically over. Um, And so playing around, like knowing what to play around in, in that matchup can be really, really, really difficult. Game one in particular,
Brent:I'm not surprised that, uh, he got a good result. This is virtually, uh, I think his list is one card off the list that I am playing on. Uh, Pete, c g l, uh, I cut the, um, Palkia for a fifth water. Hmm.
Mike:Yeah, that makes sense.
Brent:Uh, just because I mismanaged my energy, as you guys know, it's always good to concealed cards more. I'm always like, we're gonna conceal cards again. We we're definitely doing that. Yeah.
Mike:Yeah. I do think his split of Sky sealed for STA is a bit of a nod to, to the Lugia matchup. Cause I feel like that's the match where you really. Want the sky, seal, stone, and if you don't have it, it can be much more difficult. Like, you know, grant, grant Azul, and then they played kyo, which gives them a way to deal with the Lugia matchup in a bit of a different way. Um, but if you don't have that, I think sky seal stone makes some sense. Yeah. Well,
Brent:and, and, and, uh, I recognize that not, not situation broke top, but in best of one, having this sky seal, stone is just like, like easy cheesing. Right. Right, right, right. Which is my stocking trade.
Mike:Yeah. Um, in terms of other lists, I also just wanna mention like, Reagan's Lugia list is insanely good. Uh, there's been like, people have been playing like one or two cards off that, which are all fine. But I really wanna highlight the, the pump kaaboo. I was pretty skeptical of pump kaaboo in general in Lugia post, uh, rotation because in my head I was, I was basically thinking, you know, there's no quick ball. How reliably can you really get the pumpkin kaaboo out when you need it? And I think it turns out that you can get it pretty reliably between ultra balls and capturing aromas and meza goza. And by the time you need it, you often have like an extra search card to be able to find it. Uh, I was playing without it for a while and I lost a game. What? That I would've won if I had pumpkin kaaboo and then I put it back in to try it more and it's won me like, Three or four games just straight up. Um, so I, I highly recommend playing pumpkin Kaaboo and Reagan's list is just really good. It's kind of a question mark, whether singles Strike Urshifu is definitely the way to use those last couple spots in muga, but it covers so much for so little space that it just seems correct to me. Um, so yeah, I, I just wanna give will people
Brent:play, will people play, uh, the uh, rapid Strike Urshifu, uh, deck? In Hartford or, or did that do bad enough that it's just like completely chased outta the meta? Like I get why people like the idea of it
Mike:That Inteleon or, yeah, yeah.
Brit:Yeah. I just, I just don't think anyone's cracked the list and it's just inconsistent and I think it's just left there. I don't, I think people have tried to the best of their ability and it's, I mean, just on paper, You know, seems so good, but I just think struggles so much in concept with just doing the things it wants to do. Like if you had Inteleon or something still, I'm confident it would be very good. Um, but you just don't have enough. And like a Octillery similarly just also isn't enough on its own with, without something like Inteleon or something else. And you're, you're strapped for space already with like two states, ones. Trying to fit in Biro or something, I guess three stage ones, you know, um, Inteleon and Octillery. It just, it just, it's, it seems so close too, because like our water support is so good. Arita, v i p, you know, there's, there's lots of good things going on in the package where I think it just ends up failing. Um, just not able to do what it wants to do consistently enough. Yeah.
Mike:I, I, I tried it ab. Fit. Like maybe two weeks ago I probably played like 10, 15 games and it just feels so bad. Like every game you're like, man, I can't do anything that I wanna do. Any turn. Like you have this grand, yeah. Like I assume
Brent:like if you drop perfectly, you're like, we're just rolling all these guardian lost box decks, we're just rolling over them. They have no chance. Like we're just blowing them off the board every turn. But like, Getting it to do that seems
Mike:impossible, right? Yeah. You just need so many cards to pull up these combos and you just don't have a draw engine really in your deck. So I, there's this one local player that is pretty good, and he was, uh, playing it a lot the last few weeks. And then I saw him last night and he's like, yeah, we're done. We're, we're not playing that far.
Brent:Alright, uh, uh, guys, I wanted to ask if you guys had any reaction to the Azul shuffling, uh, chaos. Uh, you know, uh, what's funny is I was for like, virtually, I haven't watched a lot of Twitch lately outside of the Portland Stream because Walker was not in the Fortnite finals, um, uh, uh, this season. But I flipped it back on and just happened to catch UL's whole like thing in real time and I was like, mm-hmm. That's a
Mike:hot take. Yeah. Yeah. I saw a bit of it in real time as well. And it was funny cuz like, his reaction basically went from like, oh, you know, I don't know if it's cheating, blah, blah, blah. And then he like starts to slow it down and analyze it more. And then he is like, oh my God. Um, which was kind of funny. I don't know. I don't think, I don't know. Well, let me, let me, let me flip the question a little bit back. Do you think that Azul stuff was the reason that the guy got dq.
Brit:Yes. I don't think anything happens there without, uh, American English, social media getting involved. I feel confident in a certain, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Mike:So that's interesting. Not, not
Brit:just Azul, um, but yeah. Yeah. Even just very, I thought Diego Post, right? Diego Post.
Brent:Yeah. I felt like Diego's post was really the driver.
Brit:Social media. Yeah. Really cursory Twitter seems, seems like there was a clear sort of like, Staff didn't know about it until it was relayed to them through, you know, this other information, sort of pinning it down more precisely. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, so Diego two, of course, not exactly, you know, these American players sort of calling it out. But yeah, I feel like it, it, it probably doesn't get caught without that, that kind of stir. Mm-hmm.
Brent:Uh, the other Azul thing that I want to ask you guys about is the, um, uh, uh, doing a lot of actions to, uh, drag out
Brit:games. It's a good conversation. I feel like the, the Twitter threads really went in some good directions, both from, I would say like Mace and Robin Schultz, both of, and Sander as well. Like I, I feel like. We can't get to like a precise answer on this, but my, my take would be that, and this is I think again, kind of a sum of Robin and Sander and May sort of coming at each individually, coming at, uh, you know, coming Socratically at Azul. Um, but that it's, I think it's too close to cheating for it to be worth. Doing, but then, you know, Mesa's position was just like that. This is ba basically can enforce it and it's more, you know, symptomatic of the rules. And I, you know, I think in general some, many of these problems are not, you know, a judge interpreting the rules and, you know, giving the bad verdict or something like that. It's just that the rules themselves are structured in such a way that the, the verdicts are often going to be problematic and un until work is done. On the rules themselves. We'll never sort of get out of these areas. But yeah, like it's, it's seems eerily too close to just what is, what is blatant slow playing, what is blatantly cheating according to the rules as far as your play with time is concerned. But then you get into these questions of, you know, just at, at what point isn't my responsibility? And of course the rules directly, obviously, you know, maintaining the game state is. You know, you, you are, you know, maintaining your, your opponent's board state game state is your responsibility as a player. But you get into these scenarios just like, you know, in these, it, it gets complicated, especially in the examples they were using with just like between a, a control player and a non-control player. Like at what point, like, Do you, you know, have, I've established my checkmate as a control player. You literally can't beat me. Like is it on you to recognize that and then concede, you know, you know at what point who is doing something wrong? It gets sort of murkier and murkier and murkier. And I think similarly to like, um, or least this is something like Jay Hornung has posted a time or two just wondering like, why don't we just have chest clocks or something like that. You know, and I think there's something like that there. And I remember, I would remember when I was in chess club, like in, I, I mean I played chess club K through 12 basically. Um, and anyways, I would, I would, when my opponents sometimes would not hit, you know, for their turn, I would just not play. I would not play until they realized that they needed to hit the clock. And I think something like that obviously goes against Spiritomb, the game, like as me intentionally just sort of, um, trying to real shark them or something like that. And so, again, like, I think there's. You know, there's a strong appeal in that direction, I think. But just like, I don't know what the real solution actually looks like, but I, I think in general, like I don't, I definitely don't like, I, I'll be very honest and quick and transparent, you know, my opponents will be like, oh yeah, just show me the boss and we can go to the next game. And I'll just be like, I don't have the boss. I'm gonna have to dig for it. I, my odds are very good, you know, or sometimes, and then, or obviously just like if I do have it be like, yep, here it is. Or like, you know, here's the ultra ball for the Lumin and for the boss, or something like that. Um, but yeah, it's, it's hard to say, but I, I feel like just on the face of it, it's too close to the act. What? It's just so close to what actual slow playing is. It seems. It seems difficult for it not to be, you know, in, in UL's case here, it just seems difficult for that player not to really be doing something wrong. Like obviously on the other side of things, like maybe I, I just don't recognize that you've got game. Maybe I just, like, I am still, you know, I'm tunnel visioned and I, I don't, again, I just don't see something. It seems like the Azul position, so more or less is gonna always dele. Some of the responsibility towards the other person. Cause you know, that's literally what he says. It's just like, it's not my fault. Mm-hmm. Um, and, you know, that's obviously just kind of a weak moral position in general. Um, and so I I, I feel similarly about it here. Is it real? Is it verbatim? Textbook cheating? No, but it's just so, so close. It just doesn't seem like you should do it. Yeah,
Mike:I think, I generally agree. The, the most salient point for me was not really the, uh, I don't see it argument. I feel like that's like a cop out kinda answer. Um, but the point that actually did make sense to me, I think Sanders said it, is that like if you have game immediately with a, a nontrivial card that you play in your deck, But you have a way to win with a more commonly played card and you don't have that readily available. Then using these actions to dig for that, to hide the information of your more, you know, esoteric, uh, card. Um, I think that is, Like, gives you a competitive advantage going into a second or third game. Um, so I, I like that argument. That's really the only argument that I saw that I was like, okay, that makes
Brit:sense. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely agree, but even there, it just seems like I don't think we'll ever get this with the rules, but it, that even that I think feels like it almost just leads us to needing to answer like a moral question, like about, about the rules. You know, we could go back to. Uh, you know what happened, I don't even remember the regionals, but like with Raul, when he like lied about his Serena counts like in game, you know, is that cheating? Like, no. But again, it seems to, would need us to answer a moral question about telling the truth and, you know, lying. Yeah,
Brent:that's something bothers me. That really bothers me. And that, and
Brit:that, that's exactly sort of what I mean here is it seems, and the, the sort of, the way you control. Information, like, I mean, just use the same word is a very salient point. But then I think that, you know, again, just needs us to answer like, and at what point is that is controlling information. You know, manipulative. And I think that the, the obvious answer to that is that that card games inherently are about, you know, playing your information correctly. You know, it's just, it's just like any, any other game. Whereas sometimes you, you know, you, you need to bluff, sometimes you need to be transparent about sort of how strong the things are sitting on. So again, I don't think it's ultimately really a, a moral consideration, but, There's, there's errors of that sort of, or at least in, in the way we construct our rules. You know, what, what is fun, what is fair? How do we sort of establish that as, you know, as a definitional concern or something like that. Like, there's always all of these games, all these different things have different suppositions that sort of ground all of them. But
Brent:I, so, so let me give you guys a scenario cuz I, I feel like I have an argument that I don't think I saw on Twitter that I'm interested in you guys hearing. So, My initial reaction was, it's super cheesy if, if you have the boss in hand and you're like, I'm gonna pretend to dig for the boss for the next five minutes. So like, so he doesn't know if I have it or not, and then I'll just play the boss and win. Like, that bothered me. I did not, I did not like that. But, but then when I thought about, so let me give you a scenario that's really the same situation, but like the other side of the coin, let's say I am playing against a control player. And he doesn't know that I run an escape rope and I get down to like five prizes and he's got me locked up, except that my escape rope will give me the win. Mm-hmm. If I say I normally have a terrible matchup here and the first five prizes, it's a miracle that I took those prizes. If I play again, I will lose and we will tie. But like nobody would say that player's in the wrong for waiting 20 minutes to draw every card in his deck before he plays the rope to like ensure that he gets the win and doesn't finish the second game. Right, right. And that's basically the same thing, right? Like, I'm not obligated to win that as fast as I can, so the control player can lock me up game two and game three and get quick dubs, right?
Brit:Mm-hmm. Yeah. And look at the, the, the, I think it, you just keep compounding the point, which I think just fails your argument entirely, but it just like, Right. Like it's just, it's on you to sort of have this sort of omniscient knowledge of, of what, what's in my deck, what's what, what, what I can do to win, what you can do to win, and, and things like that. And I feel like, ha, sort of that, that level of requirement, these, these edge cases, like this one exactly like you, you literally never know. Like it's always going to be valid to like, um, you know, just assume that they have their 60th card is, you know, the one that beats you or something like that. Like, you know, is that a sound argument? No, but it, it's constructively always going to be a valid one.
Brent:Um, if managing your time gets you the dub, apparently that's like, in that scenario I was like, that's totally fine. So I don't know how I could say it's bad in the other situation.
Brit:Right. Yeah, I mean, I think like in a lot of ways, or at least this is, was not before any of this, but we were having good, it was from a League Cup or something like that. One player just kind of did something dumb and it was like, kind of a good question of just like, is this, is this person cheating? Or like, at what point? Um, does ignorance excuse you, essentially is the question. And I think this is like, this is like a good sort of important moral point. I think one that, um, you know, maybe we don't realize sort of, um, you know, without studying it or something like that, that we have this sort of question like, um, you know, the, uh, distinction between factual ignorance and moral ignorance. And so in the case of factual ignorance, it does seem to be the case that. You're not blameworthy, you're not blameworthy or praiseworthy. If you do something right or wrong and are just factually ignorant, you know, say I serve you a tea, um, you know, cause I wanna have a tea party with you or something like that, and just unbeknownst to me it's poison or something like that. Obviously if I had known it was poison, I, I wouldn't have served it to you. So I don't seem necessarily blameworthy in this case. But then when we turn that to moral conversations, you know, when we ask like, does moral ignorance work in the same way? It doesn't mean it's genuinely not understanding. You know, say, say I'm just a, you know, a particular kind of racist or something like that, does my sort of, and say I'm, you know, rooted in 17th century, 18th century science or something like that. And it's a science that is, you know, justifying my take. Does it work in the same direction? And I think the answer is clearly no. That, you know, the, the sort of an example I would use to demonstrate this is, uh, Huck Finn, right? So the story of Huck Finn is like, um, he, he does something he, he thinks is wrong, but it actually happens to be right. You know, Huck Finn befriends a slave and comes to realize, you know, that this guy Jim, is like, he's a fellow human being. He, he is worth worthy of like, equal treatment just like everyone else. But his society is, culture is, norms are sort of telling him that it's wrong. He's guilty about it, he's conflicted about it. And so in this case, His moral ignorance does not remove our ability to praise. Huck Huck is still doing the right thing, even though he thinks it's wrong. And so if it works in this direction, then it has to also be the case that. Moral ignorance does not excuse itself that you're still sort of blameworthy or praiseworthy in your moral ignorance, even if you're sort of like can't help it or something like that. Even if you have this sort of like responsibility to know otherwise, and that seems to be the case I think with like the rules here too, that you have to sort of like recognize that some of the, you know, this maintenance of the game state, or at least just being honest in the way we play, I think is sort of inherently bound to. Spiritomb the game and things like that. Or at least in a lot of times when we're arguing about card games between Pokegear and other ones, like I just always go straight to Spiritomb the game because I think it's something so sort of direct and spelled out and something it's, it's built into the rules, but it's something I. Deeper than just following the rules. It's, you know, we're supposed to have fun, we're supposed to be a community. We're supposed to sort of enjoy ourselves and the rules are constructed in such a way, you know, such that way. And that's why like maintaining the game state and things like that is so important for both parties. And I think in these arguments where you just deflect the blame a little bit, that's just clearly inconsistent with what, where the rules are grounded in the first place. And that it's just, I think, you know, we're all equally responsible in the same way that. It's not just the tournament organizers, um, you know, who are responsible for ensuring that it's, you know, a safe, inclusive and accepting space. It's on the community as well. And so I think similarly, um, you know, as a long roundabout rant, but that's sort of my take on these sort of, these rules, semantics. You can, you can do things that are questionable, that aren't actually cheating. But I think if you sort of are grounding your thoughts in something other than just the rules that there are clear right and wrong things to do, sort of, regardless of. What the judge might tell you the case is, you know what the verdict is.
Brent:No, that was a really good rant. That was great. That was great. The, I mean the, uh, uh, you know, the bounds of uh, uh, moral ignorance is probably not something that other podcasts have covered. We are breaking new ground here.
Brit:Yeah, I'm not, I'm, I won't be as, uh, good of a player as, uh, Azul ever, but I will, I've got this insight ready to go at all times.
Brent:Alright guys, I have a great, would you rather this week? And I feel like it's right in your wheelhouse at this very moment, Brent. So let me give it to you guys real quick. Here's your choice, guys. Would you rather be the smartest person in the world or the stupidest person in the world in both scenarios? You have the same level of intelligence you have Now,
Brit:I, this is a, I mean this is just a classic philosophy question. This is just, this is right. You
Brent:realize I do, this
Brit:is just mill. This is just John Stewart Mill. Would you rather be Socrates dissatisfied or you know, would you rather be the, you know, the, a pig living its best life? You know, something like that. Just a pig that's just like, 100% euphoric, like at all times. Just like ha has the best slop. It flops around in the mud. Um, things like that. Um, you know, and it's this question of higher and lower pleasures essentially, and like what mill wants to argue with it, cuz Mill, you know, mill of course consequentialism, utilitarianism. What makes something right is just maximizing the outcome for, you know, the, the what makes the most amount of people happy. Possible. And so here it's just like, well, not every happiness is equal. You know, you enjoying McDonald's, can't possibly be on the same level as me going to the opera or something like that. Like that, like that, that's where he wants to go with it, of course. And you know, the 18 hundreds and things like that. Um, but it's a good question. I mean, one, the, I think, you know, students of different intuitions and things like that, I think you can really sort of go. Both ways, or, you know, the other sort of way to phrase it is, uh, Robert noic and the Experience Machine, it's just kind of the same question, but just like, what if there was this like utopian, you know, VR device or something like that. You just, you know, you hook up into the Matrix and it's, it's literally perfect. You can be, you know, whoever you want, the superstar celebrity, you know, you're always happy in the same way that the pig is always just blissed out too. That's, you know, kind of just the same thought experiment. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I guess to give my answer then I think that, Um, you know, it's not about happiness at the end of the day, or at least like, it's, it's a particular sort of kind of happiness. I think it would much rather be Socrates miserable than a pig living its best life possible. So
Mike:you'd rather be the smartest person, is that what you're
Brit:saying? Um, I forget exactly. I heard, I lost track of what brand
Mike:was the smart, smartest person in the world or the stupidest person in the world. Uh, but either way you have the same intelligence you have now.
Brit:Oh, okay. So yeah, this is sort of like an I Idiocracy spin on it or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike:Right.
Brit:Um, I would not want be the smartest person in the world. I, I'm, um, I think pretty in tune with. Myself and like, I think I'm above average, but I'm, I'm far from a genius on any subject, basically. And so I don't think the world would be very well run if I'm the lead, lead academic, lead scholar or something like that. I, I do my best, but I, I certainly am not the, the 1% on any of the things that I enjoy. Yeah,
Mike:I kind of have a similar response of like, I think if I was the smartest person, my own happiness might be. Greater, but I think if I was the stupidest, the world would just be in a much better place overall, which, uh, seems better. And I also might be taken care of. If I'm the stupidest person in the world, they might just like, feel bad for me.
Brent:Uh, yeah. Yeah. Uh, my, my uh, uh, immediate knee jerk reaction, that was the, the cop out answer of, of my wife already thinks I'm the stupidest person in the world. So we're already living in that. Yeah, it seems fine.
Mike:Brent, you've seen that movie Idiocracy? Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Brent. Have you seen that? I, I,
Brent:have I seen that movie? I don't know. I read the book by Gary Steinhart, which was a great book.
Mike:Oh, there's a book I didn't know that. Although I think
Brit:it's, uh, the movie is Mike Judge. It's, yeah. The, the book
Brent:is actually a different thing.
Mike:Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, the, the movie is like da, it's like kind of stupid, but like, it's pretty funny.
Brit:It's a movie that I feel like people, Appeal to like too much. Like they'll, they'll just, ah, it's real life. It's just like Idiocracy. And it's just like, I don't think it's quite, I don't think the link is quite as strong here. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, I definitely like, um, iconic comedy of the early two thousands. Mm-hmm. I would say,
Brent:All. Alright guys, let's, uh, let's put a lid on it. We, we gotta kick off our day, the, the first ever morning podcast of the Trashalanche. We'll, we'll get that out to the people, just, uh, as soon as we can and, and I'm sure next week we'll catch up with Caden and see how he slept. Yeah. Fantastic guys. Yep. Good, good luck in, uh, Hartford, Mike. Thank
Brit:you. Thank, you'll finish your invite. That'll be easy. You've got a handle on the format. I'm
Mike:just gonna win. I'm just gonna win Hartford. And then I got my invite.
Brent:That's the answer. We like that, uh, that that'd make for a great podcast. Next week guys. Great podcast next week incoming. Alright,
Brit:bye. Hey guys. Thank you.