The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast
Big Worlds Strats! Everything about how Worlds works and how it's gonna be... & more!
Welcome to the Trashalanche podcast. Chris Webbies Webster's laboratory is the theme song. My wife heard it for the first time, the other day, because she was like, do you guys need a theme song? And I was like, we have a theme song. And she apparently has never really paid attention to that. But there you go. Attendance is a hundred percent. We're kicking it old school. We've got Brit, we've got bike. We got me. The gang is all here. We're on Twitter too. So we're also there. There are no new five-star reviews, but if you leave a review, we will read it on the pot. It's fantastic. Dragon shield is our sponsor. They set a sleaze from time to time and we very much appreciate it because as every Pokemon player knows you, you need a steady stream of new sleeves to avoid getting random game losses at random times. Sometimes even that will not protect you. Let's kick it off guys. New season.
Computer Audio:Yeah. we got a new season. Things started like right after NAIC. I actually went to a challenge the other day. One, one thing that's been really awesome about living in Philadelphia is that leagues and league challenges often happen. On weekdays, which is super great. Like I don't wanna dedicate a whole weekend day to a league challenge. I'll do it for a cup, but not a league challenge. It's nice to just go play like four or five rounds, you know, after dinner and then and then be good. So I went to a challenge on Monday night. It was the biggest challenge at this venue. It was like 24 people. And I got second, which was cool. I played Chio Beca cuz it's the one, one of the few decks that I spent very little time on pre NAIC. So I really just wanted to give it a shot. Give it some testing. It's very similar to the list that Caden was talking about before NAIC. So it was a good time. And I know Liam went to one as well. did you go as well? Brent?
External Microphone:I did not go, but Liam and Walker both went. And I don't know if you guys had heard, this is the legendary league challenge that people had been tweeting about more than 50 people showed up. They played a six around league challenge. Well, well, neither a of my children got points. Walker did say it was the most horrible experience of his life and they'll never go to blink challenge.
Computer Audio:Did WA Walker is now a
External Microphone:He has aged up. It is a master. It is crazy for me to think that that both of my children are now theoretically masters. Yeah, I think he came out of AIC feeling really energized and he was like, oh, you know, maybe I'll try and grind out by invite this year. And then he went to that league challenge. It was like, Nope.
Computer Audio:That's really funny. I mean, this is like the time of the year where everybody's super excited, right? They're gonna, they're gonna go to everything. Like, there's also infinitely challenges throughout the whole year. So,
External Microphone:Yeah, that's what I told him. I was like, you will never go to a worst tournament than the first league challenge of the year. Like, eh, yeah. Literally everyone was there and they were all like trying to grind it out and it was absolutely brutal. But, but Liam I'm, I'm sure you guys have already heard, Liam has built a copy of pookahs CAS cube and is I'm obsessed with cubing now. So he tried to organize some cubing afterwards. But then I think he realized halfway through the tournament that this tournament is going to take all night and. I'm not going to happen.
Computer Audio:He's gotta get in touch with, if he is really into Cuban, he is Gotta get in touch with Spencer. You know, he doesn't, I think Spencer lives in Leesburg, so not too far from you guys. Spencer loves cuing. He also has a copy, basically of the Chaos Cube as well.
External Microphone:Yeah. Yeah. That said Leah Liam built that. And then he went through and swapped out like 12 cards to increase the viability of controlled ex. Like I said, it's not really good. Is that. Is there you actually making it better? He was like, people want delinquent. And I was like, I don't know. I mean, I love the liquid, but I don't know.
Computer Audio:That's funny. I was gonna say something else I don't remember, but Yeah. the new season started and obviously we don't know anything else. I know people have been posting a little bit on Twitter that leak cups and leak challengers are currently in quote unquote unlimited category, presumably because they just don't wanna tell us yet what the BFL is. I know in previous years, or I think just like the, the previous season or two, It was eight for the whole year. But before that it was two per quarter for each one. I really liked the eight per year though. I think that makes a lot more sense. You know, people can play more or less at various times throughout the year. Like Brent, I'm sure you're not gonna want Liam to play that much in the month of October and November as he's applying to colleges. But once college applications are gone done, then he can apply all the Pokegear money wants.
External Microphone:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it just seems much more humane. Right. And. And like sometimes you're in a groove with a deck and you can rip off like, you know, a three or four. Successful at like point to crewing moments and like the idea that they force you to spread that stuff out, just sleeps. Brutal. You know, I mean, if they told you, you could only win one re. Or like you only get points from one regional per season. Like. Eh, but there's still that like the BFL ish kind of element where you feel like you have to get, like, if you've got a second, you'd be like, well, maybe I can replace it with a first, like, that's the grindy part of the BFL. And the constraints around them is you feel like you have to get first at first and first and first and first, and you can't. Kind of like just be okay with anything less than perfection. You know,
Computer Audio:Yeah, I was trying to think if it really matters, like in the grand scheme of things, cuz just like thinking about it here, like, it seems like players, obviously It's better if you just have the whole year to sort of fill out your, your cards so to speak. You know, just plot your wins, plot your points here and there, but it would be better for the game. Like I would just, if if you limited them to the quarter, you would, you would get more numbers. Like it would, it would be a better average across the season, I would think. Cause you know, the quarter three, quarter four, when, you know, your core players already have their finish limits and stuff like that, like the, those attendances like surely drop off I would think. Like, but I don't know if I any of this matters like for TP c I at the end of the day, but it's just where my head head was going, listening to this.
External Microphone:Yeah, that's better for the players, but, and it's because it makes it more grindy, right? Like the whole point is you have to go to more events. So you're like, nah, You know,
Computer Audio:Yeah, it's just sort of like a micro version of the same thing. Cause just like when it's limited to the quarter, you, you still just stop, like when you get your finishes, whether, whether, whether it's, it needs to sort of grouped differently, but kind of effectively the same thing too. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see, like for me I'm not a hundred percent sure if I'm gonna go for my invite, but I'm still gonna play locally. But so like, there's a, there's a good chance that I could get eight League challenge finishes, like top four or better, which is really all that I would, I would consider, like there's a good chance I could get eight of them by like November if I'm just playing weekly local tournaments, which happen, you know, once a week, once every other week. So then I'd ha I'd have to like, do I wanna go. Keep going to these challenges cuz I like playing in person and I like, you know, hanging out with the people that go to these tournaments, but that'll be an interesting aspect for me. So we'll report back on that.
External Microphone:What would, what would make you decide not to go for your invite?
Computer Audio:More just like, well two things I guess. Like personal life stuff but I think I'm still at least a year away from like having a kid, for example I mean my wife is not currently pregnant, so, you know, minimum nine months. So like, stuff like that. And, and, but then the other thing is the organizing aspect slash judging. Like if for some reason, you know, I, I get to a point where I'm running these leak cups and I'm like, yo, this is actually really fun and I like this more is, that hasn't happened yet, but I, I it's not, it's not outside the realm of possibility. It's a very common story. You might, you might be surprised. Yeah.
External Microphone:But you would still want to go to regionals? I. Do you think, could you see a world where you're enjoying a running league challenges so much? You're like it's time to Krisha Mansky. This.
Computer Audio:Yeah. I, I, I don't see it like right now, but I, I will entertain the possibility if I, if I catch that bug. This year, this past year while we're talking about this, yeah. This past year I went to more region. I went to double the amount of regionals that I've ever been to in any other season before. And part of that was because of the lack of local events. Like I've always gone to like two, maybe three regionals in a year and then got the, got my invite primarily off locals. So that's kind of my plan going into this season, is just play a bunch of local events, cuz that's what I like more. And then go to the regionals that I can drive to and maybe fly to one. So like of the ones that have been announced so far, the only one I'm gonna go to most likely is Pittsburgh. Toronto's a maybe, but. Pittsburgh is very easy drive, so I'll definitely go to that one and then I'm sure there'll be someone one in New England and that'll be kind of the second one. And then we'll see. We'll see if I do a third one.
External Microphone:Although, if you transition away from, I mean, With, with new Mike Fouchet career of like, non-teaching your ability to take a Friday off and like, just go to regionals is way higher, man.
Computer Audio:This is true, this is true. Yeah.
External Microphone:Of course, maybe you want to use your vacation days for other things.
Computer Audio:Yeah, well so like something that I floated the idea to Kelly too is maybe we'll do L A I C maybe we'll both of us will go. Cuz it's much easier for her to take off time outside of the summer. So I dunno, once those dates are announced, we'll look into it. At least that could be fun.
External Microphone:right. What about UIC? Would she be excited to go to London?
Computer Audio:Yeah, Yeah. for sure. That's just so much further away, so
External Microphone:Is it. Oh, I, oh, I guess, I guess it depends on the dates they announce and what the
Computer Audio:yeah. Yeah.
External Microphone:Fair enough. I don't assume any of that stuff. Yeah, Liam was asking me. I mean, we've never done laic or O C I C. And he was like, you know, before I go to college, we could do these things to your point. I was like, I don't know. There's a lot of optimism wound up in that.
Computer Audio:O C I C is like, that would be really fun, but that's a much, much bigger commitment than even, than even going to Brazil. Like Brazil is what, like a eight hour flight maybe? Australia is basically the same as Japan, right?
External Microphone:Yeah. Yeah. I I'm sure I'm sure that like me, you guys would be like, you can't, you can't just go for like a, me, you there's always some, some people that are like, I'm going for five days, six days. no, no. Like if I'm going all that way. There's gotta be a slightly more ambitious plan. Right?
Computer Audio:Yeah, exactly.
External Microphone:You know, if I'm going all that way, then like the significant others probably going to come along and it's significant other go to the top of along then, we can't just go to Pokemon tournament and leave. And then like, you're just in for a penny and for pound. All right. Do we want to talk about the league that invitational and the craziness there for a second?
Computer Audio:Yeah. So for those of you that don't know, the Late Night Invitational, the big culmination event of what has it become the largest online tournament series of this past year? They had their, their invitational, which awarded, I don't know if it's a complete free trip or just a, a stipend, like a, a good amount of money to the winner. And they invited the, the top 64 consistent point earners from throughout the season. And they were always planning, I believe, to have a last chance qualifier. But they didn't really say like how many people were gonna get through. And then kind of last minute they said, oh, there's gonna be 32 players from two last chance qualifiers that will also be able to play in the invitational. So they invited 64 people the day before the invitational, along with the 64 people that have been grinding for the last like six months. And I think that put a little bit of a sour taste in the mouths of the people that have been grinding. And understandably, I think they dedicated a lot of their whatever Tuesday evenings to playing in these tournaments to, to do well and qualify for the tournament. And then, you know, 64 people just. Did well on in one tournament and, and they got the, the exact same chance. And I don't know if the person that ended up winning got through the qualifier. I'm actually curious. I thought they did. They did you think? Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Cause they, they won the trip and just weren't qualified pre at all, like previously I think is there, at least I haven't poked into doing this, but like anecdotally, I feel like that's what I've seen. Yes. Yes. An so Anthony Zang was the one it looks like he did get top 32 and one of the last chance qualifiers. So if I have something else that I wanna talk about with Anthony Zang, but do you guys have any comments on the, that stuff? It's the late night. I don't know. It's not terribly surprising for me.
External Microphone:Do you think. Maybe, you know, better than I do. Were there people who were like, I'm really grinding? Cause I want to win this trip to Japan.
Computer Audio:Surely I would think at least a lot, at least a couple players that were qualified in un, like I would be upset in, in most circumstances if I were a seated player and half the over half the field, unbeknownst to me was coming in from these last chance tournaments. Like it just feels like something I would've preferred communicated to me. Of course. Like at the very least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. If they had announced at the very beginning that they were, well, I mean, at that point, like I just play those, like I would stop.
External Microphone:Right. I mean, I guess the question is where, where people, where people. Grinding to qualify or where people just playing, because like, like, you know, the interim prizes along the way, like. Yeah, I guess the question is, do people go to regionals because they're trying to get their invite the world's or do the other regionals do like have fun win prizes, blah, blah, blah. Like. I assume it's a little bit of a mixed model.
Computer Audio:Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, Definitely, definitely mixed. I'm sure like nobody was playing like solely to win this trip. But, but I mean it, like, it, it was an incentive. It was a pretty big incentive
External Microphone:man. Especially with such a like asymmetric reward system, right? Like,
Computer Audio:Right.
External Microphone:There's only one.
Computer Audio:Yeah. It's reminiscent of the old gym challenges.
External Microphone:Yeah. There's a.
Computer Audio:so I do wanna congrats give congrats to Anthony for winning. He won with Fusion Mew. Pretty similar list to the the list that did really well in that. Big Japanese tournament And that people have been playing. Fun fact, Anthony was my last round opponent at NAIC that I didd with me to make sure that I got my invite.
External Microphone:And was he playing fusion MEO?
Computer Audio:he was playing Fusion Mew there as well. And
External Microphone:right.
Computer Audio:funnily enough, I don't think he really understood even how to qualify for Worlds. But he won the trip, which is, you know, awesome. Like at, when we were talking about it, you know, I, I sat down, I told him, Hey man, like if we tie, I get my world's invite and. He kind of like asked me like, how do, like how do you get points? Like how's the point system work? Blah, blah, blah. And so like throughout, we played like one game for fun and I was kind of explaining it to him. So it's kind of ironic that he ended up winning. I mean, he was a good player. He's just relatively new. So I hope that he takes this and is able to go to worlds and really experience it and catches the bug and then goes for the invite next, next year and, and everything it's, Even though he is not playing
External Microphone:yeah. Hold on. Yeah. So he's not qualified for worlds.
Computer Audio:No, no,
External Microphone:So he's about to get held up for a spectator fetch. For basically the value of the stipend.
Computer Audio:That's funny actually. Let's talk about that right now. Cuz I feel like people are really taking advantage of other people with these spectator badges. I haven't seen many people post publicly how much they're selling them for, but I've seen a couple people and it seems like people are selling them for like, Three,$400 each. Which I don't know, that seems like a little ridiculous to me. Yeah, I mean, like, it's like, it's a, it's a interesting problem. Like I don't, I would just give mine out. Like, I don't think that it's like a particular issue for me, but like, I, I don't necessarily think I fault people. Like, like, you know, if it's just like, Hey man, I'm your friend. Can I, can I have one of your two passes? Like, I wouldn't be like, okay,$300. Like, I think like, that's going too far, but I, you know, to sell to a stranger or something like that, I don't necessarily see as problematic. Mm-hmm. Because the, i, the world is going to be insane. Like, I, I don't, I just anticipate some of like, just intense amounts of chaos. The most, the most people I've ever seen in my life. Like in one concentrated area. And it's, people wanna go like that, that, that they're selling for. That is, I think, indicative of that. You know, I guess I don't necessarily know how consistently they're, they're moving and things like that. But yeah, I mean, I just, I know, like, I have people who, I know a handful of people friends and friends of friends who are not even, you know, six degrees associated with the community at all, but like, they like Pokegear and they want to go to Japan, they're going to worlds. And so I think there's a lot of people in that boat. Mm-hmm. And, and you know, similarly just riding off just where the game grew over, COVID and things like that, just as a general community, not say the competitive circuit or anything like that. But yeah, it's curious for sure. And like, I, I'm just sort of, I guess, of such a pessimist, but like I kind of. Dreading a lot of things at Worlds just based on the attendance that I'm anticipating. I just kind of don't see any world where it can go well, but hopefully I'm wrong. Yeah. I guess now that I think about it, the, the case that I am pretty okay with it is if like, you really are struggling to afford to go to worlds and maybe you're a competitor and then you're using this as a way to really fund it. And I guess that's, I guess that's okay. But I kind of had a situation where I had mine and I saw one of my, not like super close friends, but a friend that I've known for a long time and he was struggling to find Spectator passes. So I messaged him and I was like, Hey, man, like I'll sell'em to you for like what Arcanine was selling them for because you're someone that I like and, and, and I'm able to do that. So I guess that's coming from a little bit of a place of privilege, but I was also like very happy that I was able to provide that, you know, to him.
External Microphone:I think, I mean, I think to your point, like you can say it's coming from a place of privilege, but I think the real thing that We're expressing some dismay about is that there are people who are spectators, who were having to pay 300,$400. And like, I recognize if it were not for the, like, When, when Liam was the only person who had an invite. And my whole family is going to Japan. Like I was going to have to buy a spectator badge. If I didn't find a friend who would give me one. Because there's four of us. And like, if the, if the option is like, mommy, can't come in. Or like you have to pay$400 for a spectator badge because we weren't able to win a lottery to get a spectator badge for our entire family. Like, it just seems rough, you know? Like, like, so. Certainly some people are going to spectators because they're like having fun. But I, you know, I dunno, I recognize like there are situations where structurally. Like people, the spectator badges. And, and it just speaks to like, Is is, did Pokemon try to create this arbitrage situation you would assume not. So like there's some sort of, of like macro pricing problem. Now.
Computer Audio:Yeah, yeah, I guess I walked back, walk back a little of what I'm saying I forgot. Just completely went over my head and what I was saying earlier that, that it was a lottery system and that it was impossible to get it through those too. So yeah, that's, that's definitely shifting my opinion, understandably so here a little bit. But yeah, it's just like this is general problem. We just seem to keep hitting, like, why can't we, you know, the demand is there. Why can't that the demand be accommodated accordingly? Like with, maybe there just aren't venues of that size, like in, in existence. Like, I, I just don't know. But like, I feel like there's a world where they. can sell enough spectator badges. To as many people who want them without, you know, the scarcity and like, like Brun just said, like it's, there's no way they're creating it on purpose or anything like that.
External Microphone:I'll edit and it's tough because you could say, oh, like they could fix this problem by saying, Hey, where are you going to, we're going to charge a hundred dollars for a spectator badge just to like price out. People who are just like grabbing them, like the kind of speculators or something, or you could have, have like a bidding system instead of a lottery. But the flip side of that is. And I recognize at the end of the day, like you want Pokemon to be for the kids. And. On the one hand. London was in the sane. And I'm sure, however to your point, Britt, like however insane London was, Japan is going to be a hundred times crazier, right? Like. I spoke about it as Japan. It's like, it's all happening. But, but like, You want to be able to like let the kids in. I mean, if some Japanese family wanted to go to the Pokemon world championship. I mean. The hangup I've always had with the spectator badges is like, if a, if a family with little kids that they just found out that the Pokemon world championship is happening and they want to go, like, see what it's about. And they get there and they can't get in. And that's sucks.
Computer Audio:Yeah. Yeah.
External Microphone:Like we definitely would not have done. Like we would not have been able to do what we've done over the last seven years safe. When we went to Washington DC for the first like 2014 worlds. We were not able to get in.
Computer Audio:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's gonna be that, that, like, that's gonna for sure happen in, in Japan, like a hundred percent,
External Microphone:I mean, I think it
Computer Audio:probably more,
External Microphone:now. I think it happened. It definitely happened in the IC, like. The, you know and I like in the Excel center is huge. And it was. It felt like it was like, I mean, I guess it was like big enough, but like they could have made it bigger, you know? And NIC. I don't know if we talked about this. This is like important posted AIC news. So I had a reservation at the Pokemon store at 10:00 AM Friday morning, cause I was like round, one's going to start and then I'm going to go in. And it'll be totally empty and it'll be like delightful and I'll hit the Pokemon store, sold out a t-shirts.
Computer Audio:Mm-hmm.
External Microphone:And sold that a backpacks and sold that a deck boxes and sold that a mats. There's 10:00 AM Friday morning.
Computer Audio:Like daily supplies, right? Like, it wasn't that they sold out of everything immediately. It was that they had like a daily quote, the amount that they could sell daily, and that that was what was running out. I mean, it's the same, same sort of end result either way.
External Microphone:I think the way I heard it described was it was like 85% went in Thursday and then they had like 5%, Friday, 5%
Computer Audio:Okay. Yeah, that's much worse then.
External Microphone:they kind of tried to preserve saw a little bit, but
Computer Audio:that's even with limiting, like. customers can only buy like one, one of each thing or something like that too, I would assume.
External Microphone:Yeah, it was one or two, but like, I mean, I don't know there. It is 10:00 AM, Friday morning, and they're already sold out of t-shirts. You know, Hey, here's the head guys. Any more t-shirts. And I don't know how many they bought for Japan, but like, they're going to need a lot more.
Computer Audio:Yeah. It's gonna be, it's gonna be just as crazy there.
External Microphone:Yeah. Like, like it, AIC was Not crazy. I felt like, I don't know if your reaction was different, Mike, like. Th like the event was gigantic. But it was it was like appropriate scale and they obviously like vastly underestimated the amount of Pokemon store stuff they could sell. I think
Computer Audio:I didn't, I didn't,
External Microphone:Yeah, I think this is actually going to be crazy. When I think back to like my London experience, I'm like, it's going to be crazy. And I mean, they're going to need. A million times as many t-shirts.
Computer Audio:I was talking to Kelly the other day about this, like I, in my head, I don't know how world it, so the, how world is gonna be cuz it's in Japan. So the, I was trying to like, create some analogy like imagine if the World Series was in Philadelphia, would. Like, there's lots of people that are very into baseball and you know, Philadelphia's gonna be swarmed with baseball people, but it's not gonna make like, like, yes, it'll be crazy, but it's not like ridiculous. It's not gonna make this city like, you know, fail basically. But like, much busier than normal, A lot more baseball people than normal. And I don't know if Pokegear is like that in Japan, where it's like, it's gonna be like just a little crazier than normal. Like, there's this big event, like a lot of the big Pokegear people are gonna come. People that are like, are really into it. Or if it's gonna be like, way crazier than that, where like everybody in Japan loves Pokegear and everybody's gonna want to be there. Like I I, I don't know if that makes sense, like trying to conceptualize the scale of this is, is, yeah, I don't know the, the, the scale, but I, I would, I think it's definitely more of the second one. Like, you know, not, not to generalize j all of Japan like that, but like mm-hmm. I think. The interest is there. And like, like, you know, I guess just to draw from the anecdotal data that I have, like these friends of friends that have nothing to do with Pokegear that I know are going, like, that's probably the case for every country with, you know, people that travel the world for their vacations and things like that. Like, I would just, I would just wage your good amounts of money that's similar, exact, you know, exact same, you know, representative people of that, of that sort of group from, from, from Spain, from England, from, you know, all, all over Malaysia, Singapore, so on and so forth. Like, Yeah. like, it, it is gonna be crazy. I mean, there's, there's just no way I'm wrong here. I, I just don't think, like, I just think it's going to be like, like thinking about it, like it was at worlds in Nashville. There was like a Taylor Swift concert that got out like the Saturday night. We were all out in bars and stuff, and I've just, I've tr it was like a stampede of people. I have never seen that many. People like so close to me at once. Before it was really sort of like a like awe inspiring moment or something like that. It's just truly like hard to internalize as you're experiencing it. And I just think it's gonna be that times 10 or times 50 or something. Like I just, I just don't see a world where it isn't just wall to wall. Like, I don't know too, if another of you would've probably have seen it too, but adjacently, at least the anime expo, the big, you know, huge anime convention in LA happened and it was like, Stampede, there was not, there was not enough room for people. People are like getting pinned to the walls and things like that. And I just like, and that's, you know, the anime in general has seen, you know, comparable growth in the same way that Pokegear and things have like over Covid too. Like it's just huge in terms of what their conventions and things like get now in the same way that regionals are so big. And I just like, that's, you know, again, just anecdotes here. Nothing like really being argued, but just, I just have this feeling, this gut feeling that it's just going to be hard. Yeah.
External Microphone:You know, I was just, I was just Googling, trying to find some pictures. That I could text to you guys of the lines for the Pokemon center at in London. And like the first thing that pops up was an article in video game Chronicles. On like On that Thursday. And they're talking about the, despite the fact that you were able to book a time slot, there are five-hour queues to get into the Pokemon center. And this is like, In London. I mean, what I think about to your point, Brit? When I think about what that looks like in Yokohama. I mean. You can I, you know, I mean, I assume that they're working assumption is they have to build a 10 times bigger Pokemon center. But I do. I think the crowds could be 10 times bigger. Oh yeah. I totally think the crowds could be 10 times bigger. Yeah, I mean, How big a store can they build given that like they already have Pokemon centers in Japan. Like people are going to expect fricking Disneyland. And they're gonna, and they're going to come thinking Disney late is there. Right? Like they definitely think it's going to be Disneyland. And, and like Yokohama is close enough to Tokyo, like, like Xcel's. Yeah, it's a little bit of a hassle to get to for blind. And like, you can have as a little further from Tokyo, I think, but, but like equally accessible. Like you hop on a train and you're there. Yeah, it could really, really be pandemonium, but it's a, it's a great question. Like. Is it. You know what. What is the absolute level of pandemonium? But yeah, it seems like Pokemon has consistently. Underestimated the sheer amount of chaos that could. You have post COVID that Pokemon tournaments apparently bring. All right, guys, let's stop for two seconds about About like, World's Like the plan for worlds and all that stuff that you guys, you guys put a bunch of good stuff in the rundown. Let's let let's run. Let's drive through this really quickly. Going to start.
Computer Audio:Well, so Brit and I have played in a number of worlds. The world structure changed pretty significantly in, was it 2015. It was, it was the year after the DC world. Yeah. it was 2015. Is is kind of where, yeah, where, where we have our, our modern day structure. So I guess like we should really only talk about from then on. I played in 20 15, 16, 17, 18, and then nine, not 19 or, or this past one. All four times that I played, I got a day one invite, and then three out of those four, I made it into day two via day one. And Brett, what about you? 15 and 16, I had day two invites and 17 I iqu I made qualified for day one and made it through. Okay. So. Day one for the listeners and, and I'm sure everyone that is qualified for day one knows this, but for, for those of you that are a little unfamiliar, day one, you have to go x and two. So however many rounds they do, you need to win all except two of them. So it's changed over from year to year, depending on how many players are in day one. The smallest one was 2017. I don't remember how many players were day one. But it was the smallest ever by, by a lot. Maybe like 200 or two 50. There was only six rounds that year, so you only had to win four games. You had to go at least four and two. And the biggest, I believe was. 2016 San Francisco. There was eight rounds, so you had to go six and two. I actually was one of those weird people that ended up going 5 0 3 to make it in. Don't recommend doing that at all.
External Microphone:You start out 5, 0, 1. A double ID, I assume you did not.
Computer Audio:No. I tied my very first round against a friend. Yeah, it was against Michael Diaz. And so we, we took, we, we ended up tying and then so I, I, I went 5 0 2 and then there was only, I think there was three five oh twos. So so also people should know that they drop you as soon as you get to the threshold. So like one of the years, the year That there was only six rounds, I went four and oh, and then I was done. They just drop you from the torment cuz it doesn't matter what you do the last two rounds. So at five oh and two we were basically like, there was, well if you had gotten six wins you would've been dropped. So five oh and two was like the highest seeds, Right. That were still in the Yeah, So there's three of us and one of them got down paired. to like a, a, a regular five and two or five 11, something like that. And so they couldn't, ID, I don't remember if they made it in, but, so. I got lucky. Myself and Mike Mwa got paired against each other in the last round at five oh and two. So we were able to, ID in But the other years I went, I, I went X two. So this year I'm guessing it's gonna be eight rounds again. It's possible it could be seven. It's possible it could even be nine, but my guess would be eight. So probably gotta go six and two. So the, the main takeaway that I wanna say from all this is like, tying sucks. Tying is really, really, really, really bad. Unless you're crazy and, and end up tying three times without taking a loss, a tie equals a loss. So I'm really interested in exploring how that might affect the day one metagame, especially in this format. You know, it, I think it's had some impact in previous day one worlds formats as well in terms of deck choice, but I don't think anything quite as significant as we might see this year, because the best two decks in the format, Gardevoir and lost zone are slow decks. They're just prone to tying and we haven't really had that. Such a dramatic effect from the, like, the best two decks in, in quite a while. So I, I think there's high potential for like the day one metagame to be really different, to like, Gardevoir will still be like, I think guard DeVore's a little bit better in time than Lason is. So like Gardevoir will still be like fairly popular, but I don't think it'll be 25%. Like NAIC. I think Lone will probably be about the same. At n as NAIC, maybe a little bit less, maybe like 10%. I think Archeops will probably be like the most, well repre, most well represented deck because they you know, they're not gonna go to time as often. They're very powerful. Stuff like Lugia gets a lot better. G Pals a little bit better. I don't know. So I feel like there's a, there's a, a world where the Metagame is completely different from NAIC and people really need to, I think, think about it that way. And then day two is kind of a more like regular tournament. You still have to do very well to make top eight. You know, X 11 is usually what you need. So like tying is still not great, but it's, it's, it's a different beast. And so I, I dunno, I think there's a pretty high potential for day one and day two meta games to actually be like really, really, really different this year.
External Microphone:I have one or two comments. Obviously, this is gonna be the first time I've had a master in a worlds. My kids were all only juniors and seniors previously. I think Liam de tude every year, except for one. And we had a bit of any number of like, I can't even keep track of how many, like day two passes we got for Tufts 16 because juniors, seniors. That's great. But I can't remember any of the day ones where like junior Cedars play faster. I don't think we ever had a tie.
Computer Audio:Hmm.
External Microphone:And, and yeah, I look at this year and I think my God, there's just like, there's going to be ties left and right, right.
Computer Audio:Yeah.
External Microphone:Mid Japanese kids play fast. They're still going to be like ties left and right, right. It's weird.
Computer Audio:So. Right. Do you remember how, how did preparing for like day one differ from the two years before when you were just preparing for day two? Or did it Not really. Yeah. I don't really, I don't really think the overall. Preparation itself was all that different. You know, naturally you, you have this, you're in this sort of privileged position where observing day one is very helpful in terms of what you can do. And like, that's, it's, it's cool. You get to sleep in, all your friends have to wake up and go play, and then you, you have it, you really nice sort of rest. You get up and then you start just like looking around the top tables towards the end of the day to try to get a sense of what's been going on and things like that. But I don't really think I'm, I'm really trying to think of, I mean, especially these, both of these years that I made day two or I was just seated directly into day two, I, I did well both of those times. I'm really trying to go through my memories here and just kind of really think about what, what was my prep like those two years. And I, I remember very distinctly in 2016 I was in San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Mace Curtis, Curtis Leafeon, and like a bunch Benji a bunch and a bunch of other like German. In Netherlands players, we had an Airbnb in Berkeley for like two weeks before, beforehand, and we just, we just, we just like grinded games the entire time. And like we had, I think we had a pretty good sense of like where we thought the meta game was going to go. And of course, like as, as it is right now then it would've still been US Nationals, I believe. But just like that, that's the last tournament. That's sort of your, your biggest you know, biggest data that you're working with in terms of understanding where it's gonna go and things like that and like Yeah. You know, the story of 2015 Worlds obviously ends up being a lot about Blasty and Blast. The Archie's blasto as a deck, like was, was a surprise. Pretty much like it, I, I remember it did like someone made top 32 with it at like US Nationals and like that was kind of it. And then, you know, everyone showed up with it and made it through like huge group of players made it through day one with it. Obviously Jacob wins with it in day two and you know, lots of people, Sam Han, I think made top 32 or top 16 with it that year and things like that. And it doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like we have any, any decks like that right now that you know, have, even though there's always that possibility. You know, lots of worlds have this story where there's this sort of sleeper hit that ends up becoming the most played deck for worlds. And, you know, 2011 Russia Anti Flown was, I think a good example of that. Like did okay. Did pretty well at nationals, like top 64, top 32, but just like didn't win and didn't have a lot of people's attention, but it was just like refined and iterated. At world and was just the best deck outside of, you know, having an auto loss against the truth and things like that. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I would say that I just, we just had, we worked a lot. I remember spending a lot of time on like counter decks that were like just almost good enough. Like we built a there was a shiftery that we were trying that was like really almost okay. It was, it was dark, but its basics were grass, so you could use forest of giant plants. Mm-hmm. And I forget everything that like went into it, but like, it was, I think it had like a disabled attack or something like that, you know, your classic like torment more, more Pika kind of thing. And I remember spending a lot of time on that. And then we built something real, basically identical to what Sam Hoff taught forward with that year. And we didn't think it was good enough. We like, it was like verbatim the same deck, like very, very, very few cards different. And we tested it and just like, did not beat night March consistently still. And yeah, so I just remember a lot of
External Microphone:most consistent towed bats list in the world. Right.
Computer Audio:Yeah. Right. And we, we pivoted the toad bats at like the last moment at that world. We were on grout on for, for day one. As, as a lot of people were, it was like a really, I think, a kind of a hot play that ended up not paying off, if I remember correctly, at that world. Like, I don't think a ton of people converted with It but like was just some of the best testing memories just talking about this. like we had, like, at one point in our testing room, we were grinding, grinding the ground on mirrors with Yama. And like, like, it was just like, it was just a very strange collection of players and I would say proud to brag about that. I was able to be in a room with these sorts of players. Cuz yeah, Curtis, Curtis had qualified that year. I forget that he just forget the seasons that he played, but yeah, now I'm remembering he played ground on day one and like almost made it, but didn't quite, and then basically because of that we're just like, it's just toed bats. We're just gonna play like the, the most vanilla toed bats. What's going forward. But yeah, to try to get back to the original point, I don't really, other than the privilege of being able to observe the field, and you obviously you have to guess and predict how that knowledge, you know, how other day two players use that knowledge too. Mm-hmm. But preparation wise, I don't think it's all that different. You just, you just get to make your decision a day, a day later essentially. And, you know, adjust accordingly. But I, I think it's the same prep.
External Microphone:So here's, here's the question. I think both of you guys have been a part of teams where you've had people in day two and people that have got to grind through day one. And I feel like there's always, people always kind of talk about this organizational tension of like, You got the secret deck and you're like, are we supposed to save the secret deck for day two? But like the problem is secret texture, good deck. Like what are you going to do with that? Not played at day one. I mean, the answer is always. There's only one deck and you play it day one, right?
Computer Audio:Yeah. like I, you know, I think it just comes into, we'll adjust accordingly, you know, if, if it goes well and maybe we just still, we run it back. No, no cards changed. Maybe we have to change a different deck. But yeah, I don't think, at least specifically here, like this, our grout on list was weird. It was playing some pretty unique cards in it. I don't remember exactly off the top of my head, but I remember Yamato had some weird cards in his list and we ended up taking a couple of those changes. But yeah, I don't think there was ever any just like, we need to hide this. Like, no, we want our buddies to make day two as well. And you know, like I just said, we'll adjust accordingly after that. But Yeah. at least for us personally in that scenario, like it definitely different if you're, like, your whole group is in day two or something like that.
External Microphone:Yeah. That's
Computer Audio:that's what I was gonna, well, that's what I was gonna say, like maybe your group is like, like let's say four out of five are in day two, and there's one guy that's trying to make it through day one. I feel like that's what happened with the tour group in 2019. Like they were all day two except like Philip, basically. And so they gave Philip like the bad list of their fire deck where that still had fire crystals. And then they, and then they all played like the good, the better list. So that's like one way to do it. But I mean like 2016, that same year when Ross topped forward with the, the ves between equal Tall deck he, I'm pretty sure he was auto day two that year. And none of the rest of us were, and we all played it day one. I was the only one that made it through, but like
External Microphone:Yeah, it's better to get the information about how much your deck is sucks or is good. Than it is like the information that you give away by letting people know that you're like at this thing, right.
Computer Audio:Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
External Microphone:All right.
Computer Audio:had some. I had some follow up there, but I don't remember.
External Microphone:I mean, world, world stories are some of the funniest stories like, yeah, man.
Computer Audio:Yeah, yeah, yeah,
External Microphone:We played some terrible, a Dex. We played some great decks, like it's all been good. So let's talk about the world's discussion tips for two seconds. Keep yourself competitive stuff, guys.
Computer Audio:Keep I, I saw, I like immediately pawned off all of my world's kits and that's like immediately pawning off my boxes of evolutions and legendary treasures and things like that. I just, I just lit that thousands of dollars on fire and it will, it will haunt me till the day. Not really, but I, I think it's worth sitting. And equally there's sentimental value. Like I, I've tried to rebuy, I don't, I, cuz I, I also sold the like top 32 bags that I won both of those years. And I've, I've. I can't find them. I, I have actively tried just be like, I think I would want that back. Anyone got one? So if anyone, anyone hears this, anyone sees this or anything like that, hit me up. But I regret all that stuff. I, I don't necessarily regret, you know, losing the plushies and, you know, I sell stuff that you don't want. But overall, I wish I had kept a lot more than I have from the, the years I've qualified.
External Microphone:Yeah, I'm sympathetic to how like some people might say, and I, you know, And given my financial situation, I need the money to finance stuff, but like also that's the thing you'll remember the rest of your life.
Computer Audio:Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's the only thing, like if you, if the only way you can really go on this trip, or it's a way to turn the trip from a five day trip to a, you know, 10 day trip. Nah, it's probably worth it, like the experience of, especially this year, like the experience of hanging out in Japan for 10 days versus having to go home immediately. And if that difference is selling your champions festivals or, or whatnot, it's probably worth it.
External Microphone:But, but like when, when, when you think about the souvenirs that you'd want to buy on that trip, like, that's the souvenir dude, that's the souvenir.
Computer Audio:yeah. Yeah, that's true. That is true. So, and, and I think Brit, that's a good, like medium. Like try and sell the things that you don't really care about or sell everything except like, you know, two or three things that you think are really cool.
External Microphone:Yep.
Computer Audio:I have most of my, I have, I still have most of my world stuff. I didn't sell that much. I've sold some champions festivals, but other than that, I have most of my stuff.
External Microphone:Yeah, I think I'm the same way I live in absolute terror because I feel like I'm a guy who's always up bought high and sold low. I'm the worst at this kind of stuff. So I live in absolute terror that I'm about to be ripped off at every single moment. So I never sell anything. And that's stupid too, but you know, I recognize my, my shortcomings. All right. Anything. We talked a little about the metagame. I know we've been going for about 50 minutes, so we should probably declare victory. Anything else that we want to get off our chest before we get a call it a pod for this week, guys.
Computer Audio:You mean any sort of like cursory thoughts on where you think the format is gonna go? Like I had some stuff just relating to helping my student prepare like on On those talking points. Yeah, go for it. Yeah. At least for me. So like I think just trying to predict or helping, at least trying to get us into the position where we can start really thinking about Dax as first, trying to figure out like the meta game and where we think it can go. And at least just sort of like off the cuff, my biggest takeaways at the very least from NAIC or our. Higher the higher counts of rcs than inspected both lots of Giratina as well as the, the, the Arceus ADUs and things like that. And I, I anticipate that to about hold similar numbers. Like I, I don't think it's going to go down in play. I don't think it's going to significantly increase in play, but I, I think respecting rcs more than it was respected at NAIC is, is, is a must for the, for the next meta game. I think that, you know, chin Powell obviously, you know, we knew it, testing circles, knew it. It's a legit deck and I think, I think it's worth respecting as well. I think that the, the Cologne version is very strong and has some pretty solid matchups too. And then as well, finally, I just like, I think m is bad. I don't think Mio is a good, I mean, I think there's a scenario where it, it sneaks in and like Wednesday two or something like that. Like as, as that so consistently happens, but I don't think Mio will be a good play for day one. I think it's a, it will be a very bad play for day one. Somewhat based on some of those facts. RCS decks as well as Gardevoir decks, playing spirit tune. But I, I just don't think there's gonna be a good metagame from you currently. But I certainly could be proven wrong, like maybe the fusion strike sees a lot of play and handles the RCS decks a little better. But I, I think as far as I can tell, I feel like it's finally time for me to go away. But the famous last words as well, it also wouldn't surprise me that it just wins here too, based on this. Yeah, I've been like tossing around theoreticals with some of my friends of, okay, what if like, Lost box is what if we just take a hard L to lost box on day one, because it seems like the deck that people are gonna shy away from the most, if Arceus is really popular, if it, you know, ties, what does the metagame look like if everybody kind of accepts that lost box is not tier one as a premise? And I'm not saying that's necessarily true or not, but it's an interesting thought experiment because, because of lockbox specifically being such a and stabilized more specifically of being such a A punishing and gate keeping card for so many other types of decks. Like if you accept that as a premise and as, and assume other people will accept that as a premise, how does that change the meta game? And like, kind of like thinking, thinking through like the different steps of that. I think it's probably worth the time of people whether you end up like taking that as what you think will actually happen. That's kind of more up to you. But I think that's an interesting thought experiment to put yourself through if you're preparing for day one. And that's what I'll be. Yeah. And I think too, just like on a general note, preparing for worlds and something I've relayed to my student almost, one of the first things I said is it's like, it's also like the tournament to go big or go home at. So like, yeah, you, you know, you make a gut call, you say, no one's playing lost box. I have a 90 10 matchup. I let's hope for the best. And you oh three drop. Like, that's fine. Sometimes, like you know, you don't do that when you're sort of scraping for points trying to qualify, but there there's no, there's no event in the season.
External Microphone:In fact, if you're going to bomb out, like it's better to buy them out super quickly. So you can play in the open. that's how you, I mean, if you're really trying to arbitrage forward, here you go. Right? Like,
Computer Audio:Yeah. Yeah. I'm really gonna try and I feel like our. Testing group has kind of always been this way is like throughout the year we kind of just play whatever we test a little bit here and there, but then worlds we try and like really come up with something cool. And that'll definitely be the goal this year. I do think there'll be a number of players that don't really do that and you know, they kind of just play with whatever. And if that's you listening, that's fine. If that's kind of just what you wanna do. But I do encourage you to prep for this tournament in the same way or, or more so than, than anyone you have before. Like that's the whole point. You qualify for a world like try to win.
External Microphone:Yeah, there's only, there's only one tournament that you can win and be the world champion at.
Computer Audio:Yeah.
External Microphone:I've two or three questions about the metagame really quickly guys. When I looked at the late night invitational, but a trip to Japan and tournament results. Aye. Two things stood out to me that I thought were in shade. One is. CIN powers like nowhere to be seen. Is that not a deck you can play online or am I like, am I missing something?
Computer Audio:I'm surprised at that a little. Let me,
External Microphone:I think the number one, the 54th, two to one drop is the best performing 10 pound deck.
Computer Audio:Well, it was also very, there, it was very little played. It was only 5% played.
External Microphone:Yeah.
Computer Audio:Yeah. you are good though. 2, 2, 1. I mean, the good lists are out there now. Like the, the, the, the list that did well at NAIC, I think are all pretty good lists. I haven't really tried the Arceus version of it all that much. I don't love this, like, I think there was like two lists that made top 32, right? One of'em I think was top 16. Yeah, the one that got 12th is much closer to what I've been playing. It does run Arceus, but other than that, it's like super Turbo. Runs like poker stops, double canceling, clone, blah, blah blah. The other list that did well was Jared Grimes. He was top 32. His is a little bit slower. I think he ran like the Lost Cities. He ran Arceus and Biral. He ran some no cross switchers. So his list is a little bit slower. And it seems like a lot of the lists that were played in the event were like more like that, a little bit slower. No cross switchers, less pogo stops. I dunno. I feel like the Turbo version is kind of the way to play it. But I don't know, maybe people just need more time. Like it's still a deck that I think could use a lot of refining. And Brett, you were talking earlier about like Archie's Blastos as an example of a deck that did like pretty well. At Nationals and then was super good at Worlds like Chi Andow has that possibility for sure.
External Microphone:Yeah, I can see
Computer Audio:I think it's strong. I like, like if I could sort of, if I could pinpoint a sleeper, pick myself, I, I really liked Jose's Ting Lu deck. Like he got wrecked in his winning in on Stream by double Cologne, chin P. So if that's like, you know, something you're very much predicting. I, I don't think this is a good play, but like, it's interesting to me, I think, and I, I think you could improve his list. Jose's a great player. His lists are always a little goofy a lot of the time. But, and there's a lot of stuff like I, I spent you know, similarly been thinking about Charles Art again was just going through Pedro's comments on it. And things like that. And like, he seems to think it's well positioned and like there, there's part of me that agrees, or like I, I wanna explore it more and haven't had the time, but like, if I go to locals, I'm gonna be playing Charles art ideas for sure. For the, for the next, for this quarter, I think. Mm-hmm. And some of that is, you know, based on how I'm predicting the meta game to go, like in a world where rcs is super power is super popular, like that's a free matchup for you as well as like, he beat the guard of wars that he played. So I'm just like, at this point I just think I just play that matchup terribly or just like have not had a full size to understand how it works. But yeah, that was something on my mind, like heavy loss city is tough of course. Like, I don't, I don't have a solve for that yet, which is a big part of how the rcs Ds are built right now. So like, maybe that just rules it out. But it's, it's worth considering, I think they, my, my head Ted is telling me that. the Metagame will develop in a way that it's, it's buyable. Mm-hmm. Perhaps in a way that it wasn't in aic.
External Microphone:So the one other deck that. I wanted to ask you guys about that I feel like it's like, it's not super on the radar, but it seems like it always has a result. That's got a decent is last Tina.
Computer Audio:Hmm,
External Microphone:a real deck, or like, is that a fake deck?
Computer Audio:I think it's real. It did win both of the late nights that just happened like yesterday, not The Invitational.
External Microphone:Right at the, at the invitational, he came in 16.
Computer Audio:yeah, something like that. I dunno, that's actually the deck that I told myself I'm gonna play around with this week. It's another deck that I haven't played with in a while. But like Henry Brands list is pretty interesting. Some of the other lists are a little more straightforward, but I just haven't given it, you know, any time since basically before U I C. And Jet Energy is obviously quite good for it. Iona is pretty good for it. So. I dunno. It could be, I'll let you know, in a week or two. I mean, I think it's just the lost buck variance. It's the lost buck variant excluding Charizard with, you know, at least compared to chiro Turbo that has the best RCS matchup and like, it, it can be fine against Cardi War too. Like, I, I think that's why it's, it's a well positioned deck at the moment. Is it? It's, it beats rcs in ways that Turbo and Chiro can struggle.
External Microphone:Yeah. Yeah. That's how I look at that, but I think it's another deck. Similar to shin pal, where like, if people built the optimal list, Maybe all of a sudden that's a good play, right? Despite the fact that it's a very under the radar. And I think when people are thinking tier one necklace right now, They do not. That. Yeah. They don't even put that on the list. Right. All right guys. Absolutely incredible stuff. Ah, hopefully I feel like this is a super good episode. People should enjoy this. We covered the good stuff here. All right. The John Paul's our outro. We'll be back next week with more getting ready for Japan.