I think a full toad scroll deck actually has decent matchups across the board. Besides Valiant, obviously it gets completely rolled by Valiant, but. I think it's actually quite strong against other stuff.
Track 1:I had a moment today where I was like, the problem with breaking a new set at LAIC is, uh, like something like Toad Scroll is just ready for judges to just make the wrong calls repeatedly. and like LAIC is where you go to have a judge be like, Nope. And, and the problem is like, I feel like the players might not have enough confidence that the judge is just wrong
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Hmm.
Track 1:and judges are just gonna be wrong over and over and over again. You know,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I don't know. I have enough faith. I.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I think, I think the, with the amount of attention the card's been getting, and also I think that honestly the card reads, like its interactions are pretty intuitive if you just read the text on the cards. Um, it's just, you know, some people, sometimes it's easy to take shortcuts and forget it's interactions, but I don't, I think its, interactions are actually pretty clear. There isn't really anything too confusing.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I'd agree with the, like, something like the poke stop thing is like a little bit weird, and I mean, primarily
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:mean, if you read the card, it's obvious that it doesn't, that it stops
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:but like the standard practice for pokey stop is like you never put the card in.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Right, right, right. Yeah. It's more the issue with Poka
Track 1:Yeah. Well, and, and,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I think.
Track 1:yeah. Well, and just like, I mean, your assumption that you're like, just read the card. I mean, it's an ic, like the card could be in many different languages. You have a Portuguese judge and like you're like, read the cards. It's like, well like that. So that's not gonna happen. They're not gonna read the card. So what are you gonna do like,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Although I'm confident, you know, obviously it's in a different language, but I'm confident the text on every, every variant of the poe stop card is discard all of them and then return items to hand.
Track 1:yeah,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:And I, I think if you read that compared to the toad scroll, like the interaction is pretty obvious. Unlike some other like slightly less obvious interactions that I, I feel like stuff that might get tripped up a bit more is stuff like, you know, I stra into my Iron Valley and does that place damage counters and like obvi, we know it, we know it does, it doesn't say before you attack on the ability, but that I, it feels like an area that has a little bit more ambiguity. It's, it's a little bit more, um, you know, a little bit more non-standard than like, PO stop says, discard the cards, then put them into hand and says you can't put them.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:just going by. The text isn't.
Track 1:I love that. I love that you guys are confident that the judges will get things right at L-A-S-C-I, you know, uh, it's important the players have confidence. Alright?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I, I, I mean, you gotta bring the best that you can
Track 1:welcome to the Trash Launch. It's the only podcast about the Pokegear trading card game. There are no others. Attendance is 133% cadence. Here. Liam's here. Mike's here. I'm here. We're sponsored by Dragon Shield. Nobody's left us a review in a while. You should leave a five star review. We know how many people listen to the podcast because there are things that generate data about this kind of thing, and you haven't all left reviews yet. If you're a person who hasn't left a review, you should ask yourself, what is wrong with me? That I'm like the last person to have not left a review. Um, Mike, uh, uh, this is less relevant for these two, but I thought it was worth taking a moment to acknowledge that, um, uh, we did not honor the occasion, but this is episode 155, apparently 155 ish.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:so we missed one 50, is that what you're saying?
Track 1:Uh, you know, I, I always thought like I, I told Liam this at one point, and like the count might be a little off because you have to kind of increment it by hand in the Buzzsprout system and like a little, I haven't always, I think, been super good about that, but I've tried to go back and clean it up sometimes. I thought episode like 1 51. I would like, we'd shut down the whole pod and go home or something like that. Like I always imagined that that was a, a important marker when you cross the, the 151 in a Pokegear podcast. But, uh, 155 is a lot of episodes. Yeah.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:It is,
Track 1:Uh, 156 is is 52 weeks times three. That, that's like, uh, I think we've been going for more than three years.'cause we took a couple of weeks off here and there, but that's like three solid years of podcasts that's still going strong. Alright. I, I think we want to talk about paradox rift decks, but, but we had a note from, uh, last week that we want to talk for two seconds about how many 30 fives missed in Toronto versus Peoria.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I have not, uh, explored this at all. I've actually been, um, looking at kind of doing something similar to what I did with Worlds. But, um, looking at the obsidian flames slash 1 51 tournaments, there was like seven ish majors. Um, so I'm gonna kind of do the same thing with, uh, a matchup chart, but then I'm also going to calculate expected win percentages based on those results. Um, and retroactively look back at each event and their metas shares and see which deck actually was the play for each event. So that's kinda where all of my, uh, analysis has gone over the last week. I'm kind of setting that up, so I didn't get to look at the 35 pointers, but. Table it again. We'll come back to it.'cause I think it's a, an interesting thing to look at.
Track 1:All right. Uh, another thing I wanted to get, uh, uh, Caden and Mike's reaction to is Um, I've been asking Liam, oh, are you going to this League Cup? Are you going to this league challenge for like the last two weekends? And he's like, man, we're already onto the next set. Ain't got time for that. Is that, is that smart or is that crazy? I,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I mean, I understand
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I understand it. I mean, I think, I don't know. I feel like, you know, I'm in, I'm a university so I have not been going to any locals'cause it's kind of inconvenient in a bit of a trek
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:you didn't go to the super busted Chicago League Cups this past weekend,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I did not, I did not. But um. I do think that, you know, I'm also not planning on really necessarily g going for my invite hard this year. Um, and, and so I'm not too concerned about hitting a bunch of locals. I think if you are going for your invite, um, know, I think it is worth going to locals so you don't feel, find yourself having to cram a bunch in at the end of the season. Um,'cause that's just genuinely no fun. And this does not mean test, you know, if it's in a previous format. Don't like this, doesn't mean okay, I'm gonna test a bunch for it. Like, just run what you're comfortable with and just see what happens. But, you know, I, think it is worth going to,
Track 1:Yeah. I, I feel like, I feel like Liam's
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:also, Liam, it's your call.
Track 1:war. Yeah. Liam Liam's just implying he's outta guard of war practice, so like there's no point trying to take guard of war because, you know, he's, he's already like,
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:No, I ain't stressing about No, we bro. I could spend all that time testing for Paradox Riff and then trying to do well at like, you know, like an actual tournament that like, you know, I want to do well at beyond just my world's invite. And guess what that goes to my world's invite too, actually goes a
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:What are your, what are your local placements looking like right now, Liam.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I have a League Cup win and a League challenge win.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Okay. And, and so like, you know, you are obviously in good shape, in good shape right now. You have two wins. Uh, but you know, I think, I think it is worthwhile to, you know, make sure you hit those locals when you have the chance because they won't be every weekend. There's always, at least, if I'm remembering correctly, it always feels like there's more, there's more local tournaments at the beginning of the season than there are at the end of the season. Um, that might just be fully wrong, but that's at least what it feels like. As a player. Um, so it's, you know, I would, I think it's worth going to locals when you get the chance.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I think you should be trying to make the best of your regionals.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I agree. Now, are you spending now, now I'm not. Again, this is why I'm saying don't waste testing on the local, but I think, I think it is worth, it's still worth going to the local, spending a few, spending a few hours to just play some games. See if you can get points.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I am going to leak up this Sunday coming up because it is very close. It's like a, you know, I don't know, 10 minute drive from my house and I like hanging out with my locals. So I feel like those are the two bigger reasons. Uh, and I think one of my buddies, well I know like League tomorrow night, one of my buddies that's going to LISE, he's coming and we're gonna test and he might be coming to the League Cup. I feel like he shouldn't come to the League Cup, but if he does come to the League Cup, uh, we'll probably like play games in between rounds. So, of Paradox of Paradox
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:crazy dude.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:uh, yeah.
Track 1:All right. Alright. Uh, um, I mean, it sounds like, it sounds like Liam is, uh, ready and it sounds like Mike is ready. It sounds like people are ready to talk about some decks they should play for LAIC.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. It's still, it's gonna be really interesting because, um, I think the more that I play games in this format, the more I'm unsure of how good the old decks, or not even how good the old decks are, like how bad the old decks are. I, I, I'm not really saying this right. I think the old decks are actually a lot better than I initially thought. I feel like the new decks are like, okay. Um, but they're not gonna really push out much of the old decks. Maybe I, and I feel like the biggest thing that gets pushed out is probably lost box. Um. I dunno. That's kind of like my initial thought. Like I think Gardy is weaker, but I think it's still good. I think Mew is still very good. Chi Pal's obviously very good. Lugia not sure about that one. It's moon matchup is real bad I think. Um, but the more I play, I think the more, I think it'll be a really interesting mix of old and new decks and not at all completely dominated by new stuff.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I agree with this. I mean, I think there You know, I'm mean, out of, out of the old decks, I'm inclined to say, you know, oh, Mew is completely dead. But you know, this is what we say, the release, I think of basically every single new set and it's, it's never dead. So I, I, I agree. I think that, you know, Mew, I think most decks, obviously not really Mew as, as always, but most decks will be adding some new paradox Rift cards and have, find a few new texts here or there. But I, I agree. I think that most, if not all of the old decks are still at least tier one, tier two, and I, I, I think this is still shaping up to be a very wide meta.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Okay. So that's our high, high level thoughts. Liam, what are your high level thoughts?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I agree.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah, is there any deck? So like I kind of singled out, lost box is like maybe the biggest loser. Do you agree with that?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah. Yeah.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Um, roaring Moon I guess is like the, the new deck. Um, and then everything else is like, pretty much the same, uh, iron enhancer, chi pal throw or Lugia and tempo, throw iron hands in and then everything else. I think like it's
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:In Valiant.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:other deck gets way better though, as well. Like just because of Earth and Vessel, I think. I think a lot of EX at least, are playing that and like they just get way better, um, even though it's like the same market type.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:And like
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I think, I think Moon and Moon and Va, moon and Valiant are the two N decks in my mind. Um, and I think
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:is valiant good? Like I'm really unsure. It feels like right, it's just cheese, right? it's got like 90 tens and 10 nineties
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I agree with this. However, I do think it is, at least, you know, it is something that going into, if I were, I'm not going to LASC, but if I were going into LASC, it is definitely something I'm keeping in mind because, you know, there's gonna be a, probably quite a, quite a few people who decide to pick up valiant and play valiant for its cheese factor. And there will probably be many of them in day two at LAIC because, you know, they hit the right matchups and it has auto wins against a lot of popular decks right now. So I, I think it is, you know, while I agree it is kind of a cheese deck and it's not something that I would personally play, it definitely has sort of a, um, like a, you know, it, it has an impact on the meta.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I agree.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. It's like, it's like rapid strike, but well, like way more polarized which is interesting, like, like Rapid Strike could beat Lugia. Like it was a bad matchup, but it wasn't like completely auto lost, like it was like a, you know, 30, 70 or so. But like any valiant deck in tall Lugia is like a literally a 10 90. Like you can't, you can't win
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I actually, um, one thing that I think is kind of interesting is the Valiant Jolteon thing. Um, like, I, it, it, it obviously has like much better damage output into stuff like Lugia. Um, and like Moon Giratina kind of like, you don't have like the insane damage fall off after your turn two. Um, like the rapid strike version does, But I
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:you give up three
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:it still has similar issues. Yeah.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. Like Roaring Moon is just like, okay. All right. You do 200, I will take three prizes, Um, I haven't played any games with that version. It does seem okay though. Um, what other versions have you guys seen? I've seen the fire version. I've seen the, obviously the Urshifu version, and I've also seen the what, what version? Oh, psychic version. Yeah. With ZA too. I also played against one game on live where Dude was playing, uh, just sweet Koon v and Melony, so kind of like the fire version, but with Sweet Koon instead, which seemed worse than the fire version'cause you were relying on Melony instead of being able to play a better supporter and just magma, beason, the fire version to the fire version to me seems like the most versatile
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I agree with this. I think if I were to play Valiant, I would play the fire version. Um, I think, you know, like we've been saying, I think Sie has the, is the one with the most polarizing matchups. I think fire, the fire version is probably the best all around,
Track 1:So I, I don't know if you guys saw that, uh, Joe Bernard put out a list of like, he went through the nine online tournaments that have had more than 90 players and kind of pulled together the who, who were, what were the best decks at those tournaments and who did the best with them.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Mm-Hmm.
Track 1:The, they had, um, a rapid strike valiant, uh, having 65 cp quote unquote, the ante valiant having 40. And then the, um, Jolteon valiant having 25. I, I, I don't know, like, I feel like the piece that's missing in that data they pulled together is, is how much were they played relative to those outcomes. But
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Right, right. And like when he combined them all, valiant was fairly low on the list, like right in the kind of like right in the middle.
Track 1:Yeah, it seemed, it seemed not super successful, right? Moon was the big hitter. Was that more a function of people just wanted to play the new deck than it being the best deck?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I mean,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I think Moon is gonna be probably, I think Moon is probably gonna end up settling at a tier one deck. Um, I think it's gonna be a major force in the Meta. I don't see a world where it doesn't, the deck is really fast, really strong. Um, I do think, I think, I personally, my belief, I think Valiant is gonna settle in more like tier two realm. Um, but it's gonna be, it's gonna be that deck that, you know, it's tier two, it's gonna have a solid meta presence at every tournament. And if you, whenever you hit it, if you're running a deck that like doesn't beat it, you're just gonna. You know, you're gonna face palm and be like, why? Why'd I have to hit valiant?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Sounds right. I, I will say, I think the, the valiant Roaring Moon matchup is actually pretty close. It's like, yeah. It's, it's a, it's a really, really weird matchup. Um, but I, I, I think that's easily like valiant's most complex matchup because you, you, know, the self damage aspect gives you a chance to catch up in the weight game. Um, and actually, you know, like get some damage on the board, uh, as opposed to like Pokegear or. So that matches a little bit closer. So I, yeah, I.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about Roaring Moon a little bit. Yeah, so it, it is the on Joe's list, it was by far the most successful, and
Track 1:Uh, that and last Giratina,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah, but like, okay, let me see. Uh,
Track 1:you saw a different
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:oh, oh, oh. So there's two, he has two things. So, uh, one, I guess presumably only included top eight, and Moon and Giratina were really close in top eight. But then when he included top 16, moon jumped like almost twice as much as the next deck. And presumably,
Track 1:here for top 16, you.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Hmm. It is presumably a function of popularity of the deck. Um, but like we said, the deck is really good. Um, I haven't played too many games with it, but I've played a lot against it. Um, basically every single list that I've seen gets turn one, if they go second, they get turn one attack every time, basically like 90% of the time. Um, which is super powerful. Um, I don't know exactly where the best, less best list is gonna settle, but the deck is certainly very consistent at what it's trying to do. Um, I think its biggest weakness is like, how do you, like what's the best single prize attacker and how do you weave it in? Um, dunno. What do you guys think is like the best single prize attacker for it to play?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:It is just easily gian Moltres like, Yeah. Well, I, I, I play a much energy, heavier list than I think most of us I've seen online. I play like, I think around like 10. Um, yeah, like you can just earth and vessel Moltres like at any point in the game when you play like that number of energy. Um, and like in the case where all your energy are somehow gone, like you, you of course have dark patch, um, maybe energy switch. You play that as well. Like, and then glaring Moltres is like like a really good attacker. I, I don't know what the more Pika people are doing, bro. Like how do you ever take a prize with that Like, it seems so awful.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Like it's really just good against, um, stuff like Char Art or Gardy, or Lost Box, right? Where you just use that turn one.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I, I'm not testing against Lost Box at all. Um, I'm testing very little against Gardy. Um, and like, yeah, it just seems mid.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:It is a nice pivot too. But yeah, I agree. I also like don't know. Does, how, how, uh, how much benefit does Roy Moon even get from a good single prize attacker? Because they're always gonna have two prize dudes benched. So it's really hard to even really prevent the opponent from going 2, 2, 2. Um, because like, you're gonna have squawk benched almost every game. You're gonna have the, even if you're attacking with Mults or, or whatever, you're gonna probably have a roaring moon on the bench. Uh, I don't know.
Track 1:mean, the path that gets you to, to. I mean, Moltres being a successful attacker, like you're, you're late in the game, like stuff's already happened, right? And you don't have nothing
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:it's not like you're not playing
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:it's like fine in the mirror, like I I play,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Okay.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:so yeah, like in like the mirror, you can.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. Yeah. That seems reasonable. Then I feel like, I feel like if you're going for that route, you, you probably do have to run the iOS.'cause otherwise, like I said, they'll just have the gust and it won't matter.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah.
Track 1:So, so Liam, it sounds like your build is different than kind of the build that you see people playing online. Um, is it, is it the, is the goat build, is this the best deck?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I don't, I don't really know. This was just like, what, what I thought that deck should look like, kind of like at the start of the format and like, you know, I've been playing the deck and I've been, I've been hitting my turn one raring moons. Um, and then like I have like a little bit of like, yeah, I don't, I guess I don't really feel like, um, I I don't know exactly what else the deck could be doing. Um, the, the Greninja water thing is I guess what other people are making space for. You play a bunch of energy switches, water energies, and yeah, try to make something happen with That Um.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:so, so coped to me.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Like, they can definitely pull it off, but I, I dunno how, how good it's exactly,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I, I played, I played a few games of it. I played a few games of it. Um, it's, you know, you can hit the Greninja. It actually, like, it works. just don't know if it's, I feel like you sacrifice a lot of, a lot of ability to do anything else. Like all, all you can really do is swing with Roaring Moon and then, you know, maybe one turning, one game of turn or one turn a game. You get off of Greninja and you know, if that's all you really need to do to win a, to win most games, like maybe that variant's right? But that's, that's all it can really do.
Track 1:I mean, when I hear putting a bunch of energy switches in to try to hit the Greninja, I, I feel like that violates the mic rule of like, I'm gonna take out these good cards, I'm gonna put in these bad cards, and we're gonna see how it goes like.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I do think energy switch is like an okay card in the deck. It's not a, it's not even, even without the waters. It's not objectively bad in the deck, but there's probably better cards you could play
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, I think most of the lists I've been seeing across the board have in, well, this is my personal opinion, I think they run too few energy. I think that's a mistake a lot of people are making with the Roaring Moon lists. Um, and I think in a world where you're running heavier energy, I think Larry and Mew Trace is just like a really strong option.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Is brute bonnet ever, like the single prize attacker of choice? I guess you'd have to be, you'd have to be running multiple of the tool anyway, which I don't know if you wanna do.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I mean, I, I.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:It's one 30 kind of,
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Oh, oh, if you get the capsule on it.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah. I don't know if one 30 is any different though.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I don't know, like, at least in my experience, it's, it's like a super, this format's super two price heavy and like, uh, two price driven. Um, like yeah, I don't, I don't think hitting for 70 or like one 30, anything short of two 20 in this format is like super, super strong.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, unless you're Greninja hitting two. Two Pokegear one. Yeah. I, this feels like a very 2, 2, 2 meta, but yeah.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:All right, so we got Moon and Valiant. We've talked a little bit about them. Uh,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:you wanna touch on Gardy? I think it's worth touching on Gardy.
Track 1:I thought we, I thought we would work our way down, uh, Joe's list. Is that,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Okay. Okay.
Track 1:do it?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:let's do that. Um,
Track 1:his next one is lost Giratina.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:lost Giratina. I know Liam
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:This deck.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:opinions on Lost Giratina, so we'll let him go. Last, uh, Caden, what were you gonna say?
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Uh, I think this, I think it's cope. Um, I, I think, I think Lost Giratina is a, not a bad deck, but I think it is one of the most solidly like high tier two decks there is right now. Um, I don't think the deck's bad. I think the deck's good. I think it's a deck that a lot of people are used to, and there are a lot of people that just run, run, lost Giratina enough, which is perfectly fair because it's a. It's a decently hard deck to play. I think it's a, I think it's pretty good, and then you can get results with it. Um, I just think it, it is outshined by so many other decks in this format. Um, I, I just don't, I don't know. I think it's fine. I think the deck's fine. I just don't think it's near, it's near the best and has any hope of being the best.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I haven't played any games with it, but I've played a little bit against it. I mean, the big thing that it gets is counter catcher. Um, and so that's like the big thing it gets, and the big advantage I think that it has metagame wise is that. Loss box is a lot weaker, so you kind of like lose one of your slightly weaker matchups. You become kind of maybe the defacto loss on deck. Um, and you kind of gain a pretty decent matchup, I think in Roaring Moon like that. Match ups gotta be solid for you. Um, but yeah, I mean it's still Giratina, right? Um, all the, all the negatives of Giratina before are still, uh, there. You get to maybe not play, I mean, your boss, your boss spaces just go to counter catchers, so you're not really gaining any consistency necessarily. You're not gonna play vessel. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it seems, yeah, it seems fine. I kind of agree with Kaden, like it seems solid, but not amazing
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. I, one of the points that I, I disagree with, I guess that, that Mike said was, um, that lost box was one of your, your weaker matchups. I think that was one of your better matchups. The deck is like, like, it is so terrible against any other deck that runs io. Like as soon as that u io they don't set up an attacker for the rest of the game, at least against Lost Box. After you spent your first six turns of bit seeking, you were able to set up attackers because they don't play io. And you know, of course, the Roxanne versions that popped up in the Zamazenta builds at the end of the format. They just cooked you. They, they had the disruption was up. Um, but yeah, like it just loses to any deck that plays io. Um, I finally put it into words the other day. Um, why playing against that deck is so easy. They don't attack, like they can't set up attackers. Um, I had a, I had a Valiant game the other day. I. And like, this is valiant. And like, you know, he had two Giratina out. So I wasn't, I wasn't doing anything. I didn't, I wasn't dealing any damage, but it was okay because the entire game, he didn't find a Giratina VStar. He is three outs in deck, right? No Giratina, VStar. Um, he was just like sitting there bit seeking. So even with Valiant, like the lowest damage output, uh, deck in the game right now, I had enough time watching this brother just sit there a bit seeking to like, take six prizes. And like, the worst part is, is even after you get that attacker off, you know, you spend your like first six turns of bit seeking, you're down like three energy. Because every single time it's like chorus path, energy, energy and like, you know, goodbye energy every single time, right? And then after you attack, you lose two more ener. Like you lose all your energy, your attacker's disabled, and then they io you and then you like, you just, man, the deck is so bad. It, yeah, it doesn't be any deck with io. It's it's terrible deck. It doesn't attack.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I think, I think you're overselling on its weakness a little bit. Um, I, I, I stand by my belief that I think if the deck is solidly like mid to high tier two, like it was last format, um, and I think it's gonna stick that way for the foreseeable future.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Everybody who tells me the deck is good. They're like, oh, if you hit everything you win. And like, I'm like, hit everything. Like you have three quarters in the discard, I io you to like three and now you want like, you know, your one VStar and deck plus like Mirage Gate Super Rod off of this Iono like, it, it just never happens dude. Like the heck is terrible. And then like, even if that happens, you're at one prize and then I owe I own you again and now you have to hit like stable eye energy off your I Owno to one. You still have no chorus, like so terrible.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:The next deck. The next deck on Joe's list is Lost Zone Box. Um, I feel like the, the versions that I've played against mostly on live are lost zone with Roaring Moon in there. Have you guys seen these lists? Is Roaring Moon their answer to is Roaring Moon their answer to iron Hands?'cause that seems like a terrible answer to Iron Hands.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, it seems bad. Is this, so his, his next one's the, like Zd lost box, right?
Track 1:Yeah,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:uh
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Hmm.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Or
Track 1:yeah,
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:What?
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:right.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Oh,
Track 1:yeah. The next one has listed is the Radiant ARD loss box. I
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:oh, you're looking at the
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:oh. I thought we were looking at combined.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I was looking at combined as well. Um, but okay. But I guess Radiance Ard lost Box takes up 239 of the 2 79 Uh, if you look at the combined, so, yeah. Okay. So Radiance Ard, lost box. That's what I was gonna say next. So there's, there is the roaring Moon loss box that I've seen, but yeah, radiance Ard seems a lot better.
Track 1:Yeah.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, I think,
Track 1:loss box is like way, way, way down. It's bad deck.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Okay.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I think C ZR is um, better than Giratina. Uh, I still think it is probably outshined by a lot of what the Dexus format, but I think, you know, like we talked about, this is a two prize, a two prize or format. Um, so I think there's something to be said for If you can lean pretty heavily into one prizes to swing that can KO two prizes and just take those two for one prize trades, like you're in a, you're in a great spot. And, and obviously that's one thing that Zd Lost Box is good at. So,
Track 1:Yeah, it reminds me of, of the like prior format where like when, when Radian Ard was good at the kind of beginning of the last format, it was like, uh, if you get, if you get two attacks off Radian Ard, you're like in pretty good shape and if you get three off, you win the game. And like, it's probably still like thats.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:yeah, I agree. I, I don't think much has changed.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:and valiant.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Well, yes, obviously, I think, I think you have a, the potential to win against hands, um, I think Valiant, you're just done
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:What, what do you do when the Lugia player attacks with hands on turn two? Like how, how do you win that game?
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:oh, if they attack'em, turn two, you're done for.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah, you're cooked
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:No. Yeah, if they, if they get turned two, you're done. no, there's no doubt.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Two's like not that hard for them, bro. What if they attack with it on turn three, bro, and now they have two prizes. You put another one 10 on Olivia, like, what do you, at that point, we have four prizes left. You two prizes. Next you gonna hit the hit.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah.
Track 1:I guess the key question is when you look at these results, it doesn't seem like luie is a big part of the meta.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah. But I think the same could probably be said about chi Pow. So I think this is an interesting point with iron hands decks in general, like against a, against a our deck, you probably just don't wanna take a single prize KO, right? Um, you just wanna wait. And even if you can, you just want to chill until you can go hands from six to four and then they can't do anything about it. And then you go four to two, and then you win the game.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:the, the Han DT numbers work out for them. I wonder if that's what's like in endless. Um, but yeah,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Han DTE doesn't, uh oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:but, but those cuts are bad and you don't hit that ever and like Yeah,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:probably doesn't.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Um,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I agree. I think, I mean, I think, I think Lost Box as a, as an archetype will kind of be fallout of the meta over as, as this format progresses. And I think I just, you know, because it was a prominent deck at the end of last format, I think it's worth going over. Um, Coyo loss box, dead right, Dead,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:probably,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:dead in the water with the new pace of the format.
Track 1:It's not even on the list here.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah, it's probably not good enough.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I dunno, like all this stuff seems fine. If, um, all, all, the like aggressive anti one prize stuff, which is like hands in valley and get like completely chased out of the meadow by big two prizes, like,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Right.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:But like, yeah. Did I, I post about that on my Twitter. It's like a really weird triangle I guess.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah. I think this is the strongest triangle format we've had in a hot minute, but yeah. Um, so next one, Mew Fusion. Mew. Um,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:And there's not too much to say, right? It's Mew. I feel like Mew, I feel like Mew into Roaring Moon is like not that bad, right? Because
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Ooh.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:if you go, like if you go second and get the term with me, like you're chilling, right?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I, I found that's not the case because you have to give up three prizes after they kill the Melmetal, like the next turn
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:And then they just boss a gensec to win.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:and the bus gen.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Like, is that what you mean? Or I guess it, it doesn't matter.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Like they were, they went in three
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:No, yeah, yeah.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:but you went in three attacks too, right?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. I, I dunno, I, I was playing the matchup and it horrendous. Was just getting cooked, bro. Like, maybe I was getting them off prizes or something. Like, I, I have no clue. But yeah, I was just like attacking the Roaring Moon. And like, they, they don't, they don't always hit the Kale for the Roaring Moon. They need like two tablets from,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:that's what I was about to say. You do need two tablets, right? And you do need, even if you get turn one Mewtwo, atta, you still need a tablet. So actually you don't have
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:you, you have like Boss Squawk, but like, I don't know, I, in my testing it was Roaring Moon was like way better. And like every time Roaring Moon, like Roaring Moon always chooses to go second and then they, they're just always winning.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah, that's true.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:so like,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah, rolling Moon is way more consistent of getting the turn one attack going second, which is crazy, right? Like Mew is supposed to draw so many cards and whatnot, but Moon is just like way better at it, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, I agree.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:sense. Um,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Um, next up we've got Gardy Gardy time. So Gardy, I think that the, the biggest thing GDI gets, which I think. Okay. Personal opinion, I think it's worth running. Is the evolution tm, um, tm. Good card like that? Like that card. Um, I think it's worth running just to maybe slightly give you a chance against Valiant if you're going second. Um, also it's just like, I don't know. It's solid. It helps you set up, I
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:so many things I wanna try, man.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:dude, that, that does not give you a chance, bro. You're.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:that might be the case.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:can, you can only, there's so many things I
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Going from 70 to 80 isn't, isn't really relevant
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. Like
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Well, I meant more you're, you're faster to get to.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:sure. But it doesn't really matter, I
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:All your stuff is gone instantly ro
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. Like Gardy has so many interesting things, ways it could be built now. Like, uh, you could run a heavy scream tail version. Uh, we saw that there were a couple of lists from Japan that did that, where you could run the tms. Um, if you run the tms, maybe you run a heavy clef key. Maybe you just run one or two clef key. Um, like clef key is the way that you would beat Iron Valiant. But you have to either open it or go first. Uh, yeah, I mean, going second into Valiant is like not that bad. Like you can get looped,
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:but you just have to open with so much and like you can never mute on the collect D and if you don't get like more than two, Kirlia is down or. When you have the clef active, you also turn off the man. You're open to rapid flow turn, so like you just have to.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah, that's true.
Track 1:yeah. I don't know if You saw at, at Ethan, uh, Hege posted all of the winning lists from Japan City Championship, uh, this past weekend. And there he posted like, it was like two tweets worth of Guard of War lists. There were like four different or eight different lists that all did well. Like it was the only one where he was like, you know, continued, continued. Like, and, and it was, yeah, it was a random collection of like, some people ran two counter catchers, some people ran one counter catchers, some people ran No counter catchers, people ran shichi, people ran, like, it was just all kinds of crazy stuff. Energy counts were all over the place.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yep. So, yeah, counter Catcher. This is like one of the big decks where counter catcher's extremely good. So just like Giratina, how you can kind of go like io counter catcher, uh, s eye, their biral, something like that. With Giratina you can go similarly with Garko io, counter Catcher, Koko, back to Caliber, Koko Biral, something like that. Um, so counter catch is really big. Another question is, do you play any Earth And vessel seems pretty good in the deck, but I don't know if it's worth the spot. Do you play the, uh, the AZ card, the Professor Turo? That also seems pretty good in the deck. Like it gets a lot of interesting cards. I just don't know how you fit it all and like what direction you, you go in. I think it'll be really dependent on how the meta shapes up. So I feel like Gardy is like maybe not the best play for LAIC, but I still think it'll be solid in the format, just depending where everything else goes. And you can kind of decide actually how to build the deck. Uh, yeah.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I played a little bit with it. Um, the screen tail version, not like heavy screen tail. It was literally just one screen tail. Um, I think, I think that's all you need. Like you have super odd still. It's, it's fine. Um, like, just like Lia last format was really, really good. Like, I don't you, you didn't really need to cress. Um, I don't think you need to screen tail. Um. Yeah, it's like, it's just kind of a better Kirlia in a format without, um, like um, being super prominent. Like you can, especially against Chimp Pal. And I, I think it actually makes the chimp pal matchup, especially if they go down to one super rod, like pretty close. Like I, I, I think at the sort of a format, obviously Jake was like, Jake, like, you know, uh, a Gardevoir is completely dead due to hands backs or something. Um, but yeah, like all you need is like Gardevoir fog crystal, and then you instantly ka the backs on the bench, maybe pair with iono and like if they only have one rod, it can be pretty hard to, to deal with that. Um, so yeah, I, I think screen tails like, uh, definitely really good on the deck. Um, probably, like enough to, to make it like at least a viable contender.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Cool.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yep.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Charizard Char, RDX,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:SAR feels like it's in such a weird spot for me right now, at least in my head. Like, so obviously it has similar, similar issues to Dy against Valiant. Um, you have a near Auto Lost Valiant it, it, but I don't know, like the deck feels, I've seen some interesting builds of ARD floating around. You know, obviously there was the list that did well that ran the Toad scroll. Um, which I think we'll talk about Toad scroll in a bit, but I think Zd has lot of different ways to be built right now and I'm not sure what, what the best way to build ARD is yet.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Well, and adding onto the iron valiant comment of all the evolving index, I feel like Charizard probably has the best valiant matchup because like if you, know, bench three routes and two of them die, I. You lose the game. If you bench th two fridge and they both die, you lose the game. If you bench three charmanders and one of them lives and you get a char RDX, the next turn, that one Char, RDX, can actually just win you the game. Um, because they've taken a couple prizes or one shot valance. I don't know if the matchup is like favored, but of all the stage two decks, in theory it has the best matchup there.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Your coat, dude, like that, that matchup sucks, man. Like into
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:can't say it doesn't have the best one though.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I, I know if they're bad.
Track 1:The, the Liam's like Iron Valley at tier one. Let's go like
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I also think at, at least, no, no, because, because I was playing the rapid strike version, like the Gardevoir version. Like if they, if they get a, a stage two out, you like definitely lose, like, um, and like kind of same with uh, with backs, eh, backs a little bit less. Um, but like Charles word, when they get a stage two out, like you're trading, you're like trading, uh, two hits with
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Uh, okay. Okay. That's fair. Against if, if we're talking about fu Yeah, that, that makes sense. I'll give you that. Um, charar, the matchup char art's matchup against Rory Moon is also like, kind of sketchy. I don't think it's like an auto loss or anything, but it's probably slightly unfavor. Um, we talked a little bit about how it should play out in our chat the other day, and I, I need to play the matchup better from the Charar side for sure, but it still seems like pretty annoying that they can just blow you up.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, I mean obviously like, like last one as well, but even more so, you know, radiant Czar is your crutch. It's, it's the thing that give, I think, gives C Zd a chance in this format.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:right?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Terrible.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:It also sucks that like it's um, the one stage two deck that really wants to go second when every other deck wants to go second, you know, like at least Gardy and Q and pal, you're kind of like, okay, I'm okay going first right against some of these other big decks. But Zad is like, man, I really want to go second two, just like every other deck in the format.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. sense.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, I agree with that.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Um,
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:All right. What was, what was next? What have we got?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Uh, uh, let me propose something real quick. We've already been going for quite a while, so maybe we can just talk about like chin pow a little bit more and then,'cause I feel like that's like the big deck that's still on this list. Um, and then we can talk about for a little bit some of the more esoteric cards.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Okay.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Chi pow, go for it. What do you guys think?
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Um, I think Elle's in a good spot right now. I've done some testing with the deck. I think that a lot of people are, you know, building a little too heavily into the iron hands than I think is actually necessary. Um, it's definitely, I, I said this a while back as well, but it's definitely a type of thing that you just like, you know, splash in a little bit. If, if the Met is right and it seems like a right call. And I, I think for LAIC it's probably right, splashing it in. Um, and by splash it in, I mean, you run, you know, one iron hands, one earth and vessel, one to two lightning energy and leave it at that. Um, I don't, I think anything more than that's unnecessary. Um, I think the PE cutting cross switchers, Feels like a mistake. Um, maybe you can cut the cologne, but even that feels a slightly iffy. Um, I think the deck's really strong. I think it's in a great spot. Um, I think it has decent matchups across the board. Obviously bad matchup against Valiant, that's that being, it's probably by far it's worst matchup. But um, also, you know, as always struggling against Mew. Um, so Mew and Valiant in my head are the, probably the two worst matchups for Chimp Pal. But yeah.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I, I agree with Caden. Um, I think you, you have to stay at two super odds. You have to play switchers in at least one cologne. Um, and like if you cut back on any of those, I think any, your matchups take like a serious hit. Um, like yeah, you you no longer have the ability to just beat anything once you've set up. I think once you cut those cards. Um, and so I, I, I think you have, you, you have to keep them, uh, and then try to fit in the iron hands elsewhere. And like at that point it's, it's something that really is meta dependent. You have to think you're gonna get a lot of value out it if you're gonna find other cuts to.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Cool. I don't really have anything to add. I think I agree. I, I guess I, I totally agree on keeping the switchers. I guess I'm less confident on keeping the one cologne. Um, but I could see it. I can see either way.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:I, I haven't tested enough to figure out exactly whether or not you can afford to cut the clo, but that testing will will happen. Um, do you wanna talk about Toad scroll?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Sure. Let's talk about Toad School. You go. So, toad School for the listeners is a stage one from Paradox Rift that, uh, its ability prevents your opponent from taking cards from their disc card pile into their hand via the effects of their trainer cards.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, so, so I think, I think it's worth, you know, some obvious matchups where this is, uh, this was run as sort of a splash tech in a ARD list at one of the Japan tournaments. I think that's where, you know, Twitter first picked up on this card. Um, and, you know, obviously it. Makes for a, for a lot of decks, um, ow it cripples ow, you know, not having access to SER and ba. It also cripples, um, gold go for what? For what it's worth. Um, both of those decks are heavily SER reliant and, um, this card just cripples those two. That's, that's primarily what it's for. Um, I think it's worth mentioning, you know, some, some of the other impacts it has, most notably on pokey stop. Um, pokey stop, of course. Unintuitive and what we were talking about this briefly before the pop, but, um, pokey stop discards all the cards from the top of your deck and then returns the item cards that were discarded into your hand. So, um, toad scroll will block that, notably only if it is your own pokey stop because Toad scroll reads, um, from, from your cards. Then if your opponent plays down pokey stop, you can still use the pokey stop and get the full effect. But if you play pokey Stop, toad scroll will stop you from getting the items. So worth keeping that in mind. It's a little weird, but, um, I think the card's good. Um, outside of stopping SERI think it's value is a little niche, but yeah,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I guess it would stop Clara, right?
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:this is true. But, you know, a lot of, a lot of like lost box stacks are already leaning a little heavier on the broad over
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah, yeah, for
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I think it's, it's effect against chimp power is, is definitely being like overestimated right now. Um,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Because you can cologne it
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:like, yeah, it's like a two rod cologne. Build it. Like, it just never like. Yes. Like sticking the, the toes rule in play is, is so hard to do. I, I think I said this at the start, like, um, like when the step first came out, uh, like you have to make sure that you're doing everything else, um, to, to to like mess with chimp pal, uh, like ing the failing the fis. Um, you know, like you have to do everything else that you'd already be doing while setting up the, like, the tow school to try to keep it in play. Like it's only good when you think about it if like you're, like, you suddenly catch them with like all of their energy in their discard. They no longer have any rods and like you're like, boom, tow school now you lose. And like every other situation that like, they have some sort of counter play around it, so you have to make sure that you're like hitting all of their resources just as hard as you would be without setting up this toad screw while trying to set up the toad screw, which is like pretty hard for.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah. I think it's also worth noting if, if you try to like play this down late, um, when you know they already have burned a lot of resources potentially and are more SER reliant, like chimp the, you will need to have, unless you're running Thornton, the Toad School will be down for a turn the chimp, how player will know that Toad School is coming and be able to play around it by, um, like preemptively playing SCRs or whatnot if, if possible.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Mm-Hmm.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Or
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:so I, I agree with Liam. I think, yeah, I, I think this card is, um, not as good as Twitter makes it out to be. But, um,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:about Toad? Scroll in Zoro box. Then you can just, we
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:That's a little better. That's a little better.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:that is actually, that is actually a little better. I mean, I think it's still, um, it might be worth running. It might be worth running one, it might actually be worth running one at that point,
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I, I, think it absolutely is.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:yeah.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:gonna place a.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yes, if you're playing Zekrom Box,
Track 1:like, Zekrom box is what I'm taking to, uh, San Antonio regionals then, then you should put a toast Cruel in
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:yeah, I agree. I agree.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:so speaking of other, speaking of bad single pres deck, like zuro bugs, my favorite deck for sure right now. Is cloth electrode. I love playing this deck. I don't know, I don't think it's gonna be like great metagame wise, but, uh, it's been really fun to play. It's, uh, it, you know, it runs the brute bonnet and spicy season curry to uh, get some special conditions on, on the board. And then you hit hard electrode grass typing is not bad. You one shot Roaring Moon really easily. You one shot charge RDX really easily. The cloth gives you a decent single prize attacker. Um, the math is just like a little awkward. You can, you can do two 20 and two 30, so like, you can kill the, the, the chi pals with electrode and like a Lugia V and like Vs. But anything like that gets to a VStar range, like Lugia VStar or Mew VMax, things like that. Those matchups are. Much, much, much harder.'cause then you're two shoting them and you know, that's not great. Um, but it's super fun deck. It's really consistent. Um, and just like other decks in the format, you want to go second and you pretty consistently get a turn one attack off. So it's a deck that I'll definitely be taking to local events. So I don't know if I would take it to a regional, but super fun. I dunno if you guys have played any games with it,
Track 1:I mean, you, you successfully picked the deck that got dead last on Joe's rankings, right?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Sure, sure. But that means it got some points.
Track 1:that, that's right. Dead. Dead last is not zero. Right?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah, yeah, yeah. And it hasn't been played like at all. Basically like if I, if I go to, uh, I, I was actually looking at it earlier today also. Everyone's lists suck also, but it was only, it's only been played by, uh, like, dunno. 15 people or so in, in all of those tournaments and all of their lists suck. My list is a lot better, so
Track 1:That's the spirit.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:super fun.
Track 1:So, so, uh, the, the one prize deck that was at the top of Joe's rankings is Snla stall. Is that worth discussing at all, or is that just bad?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:that's the, that's the deck I tell people to play when they're, they say they aren't enjoying the game. Um, yeah, like, you know, if you, if you want to get like a real game of Pokegear that lasts more than four turns a good deck. Um. It definitely prolongs the game, but like it's, it doesn't actually have like a high win rate. Like it is, it is the deck that like, I think is an example of a mistake a lot of people people make when they're like trying to build, um, heavy decks. Is that like, they overemphasize on wind conditions, um, and deemphasize on buying time or, uh, like underemphasize buying time, just like buying time in and of itself. That deck does a really good job of buying time. It does a terrible job of doing anything, uh, while you both are passing. Um, so yeah, that's, that's what I'd say about the deck. It's like pretty rare in that sense, I think. Um, but yeah, it's, it's.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I figured out how to beat it with my cloth
Track 1:working assumption when I looked at Joe's results was, uh, might as well give people the strats, drive it outta the
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So, so I lost to it one time. My, my cloth deck plays for switching cards. So the first time I played against it, I was like, maybe I can just like, you know, algorithm them down and use my switch cards to, to win the game. But that didn't work. So then I cued against it a second time on live and I was like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm just gonna poison myself and let, and let it die and let things die.'cause then they can't counter capture. So I just like let the poison kill my Pokegear over and over and over again. Then they couldn't lock anything and I eventually won the game.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:hilarious.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:It was very
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:funny.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I'll say that shouldn't work dude. like that shouldn't work around. They, they should definitely be playing Echos Born or Erica's. They should also be playing, um, obviously heel cards, like maybe Serena and maybe Penny. Uh, they should be able
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah. Yeah. I want them to heal their Pokegear. They can heal their Pokegear. My Pokegear need to die.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah, yeah. So they can't play counter catcher.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah. I just give up five prizes and then I can just attack
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:They should be playing one boss. They should also, and then, yeah, they should delete all your switch cards while you do this, like a long, long process. And then they play the boss and win the game.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just funny though. Um, okay. Are there any other interesting, but maybe not. Oh, what do
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:is a neat,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:the, uh, what do you guys think of the, uh, the deli bird card? I forget what it's called. The one that, um, you can discard it and switch their dude. You think that has any application in anything?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:it's such a cool card, but yeah, I mean, decks have to stop playing like four rope before That card gets any value.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I don't know, like Fiona was played quite a lot, right?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:No, no, no. Yeah. Like what, what I'm saying though is like the deck that you would like want to throw it in would be something like iron valiant that's already playing like, or like could make, that's like a deck that would give value out of playing like techno radar. Which is like a card that's synergistic with a deli, bird or whatever, iron Bundle. Um, but like that's, that's a deck that's already playing four ropes. You have access to that effect like constantly. There's, there's just no reason to play. I, I had it in my like first list because it's like super cute of course. Um, but it doesn't, it doesn't do anything like you're, you already have ropes and I, and I think a lot of format already have ropes as well, so it's.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Hmm.
kaden_1_11-07-2023_170423:Yeah, I feel, I feel similarly. I think the card's mid. Um, yeah, I feel like we've gotten a good, I feel like we've gotten a good lay of the initial lay of the land for Paradox Rift. Um, I think LAIC is gonna be very interesting, uh, you know, as is the case with any sort of three-pronged meta. Um, we've had a lot of these in the history of Pokegear, but as, as is the case with any of them, you know, meta is key. Trying to get an accurate read of the meta is a kind of everything. Um, and so I'm very, you know, if you're going to LAIC number one thing you should be trying to figure out is what everyone else is gonna be playing. Where, where people are leaning, what decks are taking the reins of the format. Um, and if you're not going to LAIC, you know, a lot of it's gonna be, you know, look to LAIC, see what did well tried and try offer that, trying to predict. You know what's gonna be popular at San Antonio regionals or whatever's happening next. Yeah,
Track 1:Mike, there's still time for you to decide to go to San Antonio.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I cannot go. We're doing something that weekend.
Track 1:We are also doing something. We're gonna San Antonio.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Uh,
Track 1:It's the River Walk. Everybody loves it.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I
Track 1:All right, guys. Mm-Hmm.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I, I am play. I am playing and running. my cup the weekend of LAIC. So I will be playing Paradox, riff format the weekend it comes out. So I am preparing for a lead cup.
Track 1:All right. Wait, are
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:you have any events in paradox?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:what'd you say?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Are you doing any events in Paradox?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Like major events?
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Yeah.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:I don't know. We'll see what the new year brings, but yeah, definitely got the, got a league cup that I'm playing on Saturday the 18th or whatever. And then I'm running my league cup on the 19th, so if you guys wanna come up that Sunday for my
Track 1:spicy?
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:or
Track 1:I,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:you could do it.
Track 1:oh no, the 18th and 19th.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Mm-Hmm?
Track 1:That's problematic. That's problematic. I, I am, I'm taking the, uh, the little lady away for a, uh, quick weekend.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Hmm.
Track 1:Uh, you know what? We, we would've to discuss whether or not Liam can just stay at your house all weekend.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Hmm. Could do that if you want to come.
Track 1:Liam Liam's. Like, that's too, that's too much for Liam
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:No, that's not too much for me. That's not too much for me. I know it's too much for.
Track 1:Alright guys. The John Paul's are our outro. That's episode 155 in the books.
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:Boom. Sweet.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:Mike, how do you, how do you find any motivation to play the game if you don't have, um, like a tournament coming up? Dude, like, it's like an absolutely crushing feeling for me. Anytime. I'm like, man, any, any work I do with this format is just gonna get like, shipped off to some European player or something, bro. Like,
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:My favorite part of playing like, is this part, like, I don't even, like, I don't love playing in major events. I just enjoy like building decks and talking about ideas.
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:yeah, I do too. But like, I build these decks and like the good feeling I get is like in anticipation that this like deck will be used and like, you know, I'll be able to like, use this later
mike_1_11-07-2023_180423:well, well, I am hopeful that like, you know, my friends will at least benefit from my testing and yet, and not a random person, but yeah, I under, I understand it it a little bit, you're saying,
squadcaster-6i70_1_11-07-2023_180423:I I just give up as, as soon as I reach the end of my format, bro. If the next set's not out on TCG Live yet, I'm done. I play Fortnite for a few weeks, bro.