I.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:We're also like not really supposed to curse on this, right?
Track 1:No, we don't care.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. I mean, like
Track 1:Do whatever you want.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:don't,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:I I
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:go off like a crazy man, but like,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Alright then, then you don't bring up the Japanese kid. That's the deal.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:I do, I do wanna, both of you played this guy. So I do wanna at least talk about the matchup. We don't have to get into the
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Oh, that's gonna be hard.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:the kid.
Track 1:Yeah. I, I think, I think the key, the key cornerstone of cursing really is. I'm on a podcast with my son. And, and in that way, uh, um, uh, uh, cursing is frowned upon.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Gotta be a good dad.
Track 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're, we're like, we're trying to do something
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:We had LDF on our pod and he like cursed and he is like, he's like, oh, can I say that? And Neil was like, yeah, that's fine. And I was like, no, I'm editing that out.
Track 1:I always feel like the correct answer to that is that Yeah, it's totally fucking okay. You know, like
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:funny.
Track 1:Welcome to the Trashalanche podcast. It's the only podcast about the Pokegear trading card game. There are no others. Uh, there's no five star reviews. If you leave a review, we will read it on the pod, and that's the thing that people do. Sometimes Dragon Shield sends us sleeves from time to time, and we appreciate it because everybody should use Dragon Shield sleeves. Uh, uh, without further ado, guys, there's like many, many people on the pod. Um. Who's on the pod? It is not Caden, and it is not Brit. They will be back soon. It's everybody else.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:and today we are joined by two very special guests. Uh, this is the first time we've ever had two guests at the same time on the podcast. Uh, uh, our, our guest list in general is extremely small, so, uh, we appreciate you guys jumping on. We have two people that, uh, are both friends of ours and, and kind of part of our testing group, and both did very well at LAIC. This past week we have Jeremy Gibson and Kieran Farra. Kieran, did I say that right?
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:No, Mike, you should be ashamed, man. You know how much of an issue that is.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, I know. I'm just troll. I'm just trolling. So, Uh, so Kieran, how about you say your name right? For, for everyone and uh, then you can introduce yourself a little bit.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, so it's Kieran's, right? But my last name's Farrah, uh, so no worries, no worries. Um, I was giving Chip and Aula a hard time about that when I saw them this weekend, so,
Track 1:Okay,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:but yes,
Track 1:and then it's Jira is also on,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Perfect.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Kieran needs no introduction, but Jeremy might,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Okay, so I'll just, I'll do a quick one. I'm, uh, I'm Kieran. I'm from Toronto. I've been playing Pokegear since like 2011. Uh, mostly the whole time. Took a couple years off. Um, I make YouTube videos. I, Kieran, TCG, and I have a podcast. My friend Neil called the Shift Gear. So shameless plug. Uh, so go follow those. Uh, but yeah, really happy to be here,
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:and Jeremy, you gotta give us more than that'cause nobody knows who you are.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Sure. Yeah. Uh, my name is Jeremy, uh, often known as the last guy Mike wants to play against at the regionals. Um, I've been playing the game a long time, like 12 or 13 years, but way less in the, the past few years. Um, I've topped forward regionals in masters pre-modern era for what that's worth. Um, uh, I just top aided LAIC, um, and I have a pretty good day two conversion rate. I, I consider myself a solid player, so it's good to be on.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Jeremy, you say you have these top cuts, but you don't remember any of them,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:No, I don't. I, um, funny story, like as we're going into top eight, there's like a survey you have to fill out with your recent accomplishments and I was like, frantically scanning my trainer club account to like see like when and where these top four regionals were. Um, and, and if they were in fact true. I, I almost texted you to be like, like, what was that? Regional? So I stopped doing.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:So Jeremy, Jeremy beat me. I remember this, uh, because it was my first, it was somewhat not, uh, memorable for me'cause it was my first big tournament coming back into the game. Um,'cause like I took a pretty long break from like 2010 to 20 14, 15. Uh, and so my first regional back, I, I made top eight and I played Jeremy in Swiss and lost to him and then also lost to him in top eight. And we talked about this, I dunno, maybe three or four months ago. And Jeremy has no recollection of this whole event, but I even have his deck lists from the event which, uh, is, makes it even funnier. Um, and then you also top aided or top forward one with, uh, Jimmy McClure, right? Uh, do you remember that one
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:we played it, we played in Swiss. And, and so actually part of the problem is that I blur those two together.'cause I was playing, um, evil toll in both of them. Um, that one was in Atlanta, one was in 20 15, 1 was in 2016. Um, so it was just like run dark types. Um, and I, I don't really remember that one much either. Uh, I just remember that's when I was like touring colleges. Um, and I think the, the funny thing was that, um, Jimmy played like Gettes and played his hand down to, uh, down to three cards. A after seeing that I had delinquent in my hand and I just draw delinquent and the game was over.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. That's funny. And Karen, you said we played at that same regional, right? The uh, the
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, we do. I remember it.'cause that was my first ever regional as a master. Um, I remember you played the Dana or Dedenne and you're like evil tall deck. Like, and then that I lost you. I feel like I also probably wasn't very good, so I probably played bad, but I lost
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:you playing Evil? Tall as
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I was playing evil talk.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Oh, okay. So I got you, I got you With the Dedenne
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:then I got you a couple years later at World, so I got you back, which you didn't
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:played at Worlds. Which worlds? Which worlds did we play at? 2016. So that was night March year I played Vespa Quinn. What did we play day
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:we played day two.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Day two. And you were playing what? Tech.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:S Bitcoin vial plume.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Oh, okay. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:I also found out the other day that Kieran and I have played in
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. You
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Apparently I lost like my women into day two to him. Um, and no, I have no recollection of that either.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Damn. Losing a Wi a Wi losing a win. And in today too is, should be pretty memorable too.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Well, I mean, I, I actually remember this match like vividly'cause like I was 4 0 2 so I could just, ID into day two and I was the only person to get down paired. So I had to play. And then I remember Jeremy like flips over a seismic tote and I was playing gr on. I'm like, sweet. We made day two. So
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, I didn't even recall running Seism tote. I didn't think I had ever played that card.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:you just filled your brain up with so much useful stuff, that you don't remember all this useless knowledge. Okay. Um, well, so thank you guys for joining us. Um, I feel like the main thing that we should talk about is just, uh, LAIC and in particular Gardevoir. Um, so I had kind of, I kind of wrote some questions down. Liam Brent, if you guys have things you wanna interject as we're going, um, feel free to jump in. But, uh, I don't know. You guys played basically the same 60, the only difference being your rts. So let's start there. Why did Kieran, why did you not play the, the good RTS in
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Jeremy and I didn't even dis like, I didn't even know Jeremy played that rz'cause like we literally like the night, I just assumed he was playing four 70 HP rz.'cause I was just like, oh, like if I Iron Valiant exists, even Amir, Celia, like six is like kind of relevant. So I was like, I just want all my roles to be 70 hp. Uh, and I just, I don't know. I don't really think there's that much of use for memory. Skip like it used to be for Volpi mainly. And like, I don't think that card really exists anymore. So I dunno. I just thought four 70 made sense, but I didn't give it much thought.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Well, you also do have Scream Tale now for, uh, for Volpi. So yeah, that, that usage is definitely covered. But Jeremy, why did you play memory? Skip
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Um, I mean, so number one, the cloth matchup. I know you're big on that deck, Mike. Um, it makes cloth from like an a hundred zero matchup to like an a thousand zero matchup. Um, I think if you took a strategy of just only using memory skip, you might actually win, um, because they don't run that many switch cards and they don't run that many energy cards, so it's, it's really, really good into them. So like, even if you somehow miss an attack, like you just get another parent for free for nothing, um, it's also, and this is the main reason that I ran it, um, it can be good for making an iron hands need to pivot. Um, so if you're like playing against a ride on deck. And so you like, they get like an early iron hands. You can just stop amp, they can still use arm press. Uh, this actually happened against, um, uh, against Aneel when I played him. Um, but stopping them from taking that extra prize card is obviously huge. Um, and often it'll put them to, uh, three prize cards instead of, um, two prize cards remaining. Um, and like with three prize cards remaining, you're actually okay because you can often just like trade, trade, trade with Arceus, our Kana Shinx. Um, but if they go up to two prize cards, then you need to, um, or kana into scream tail squawk into Shinx with probably another gust because like, uh, the, the fluffy will still be active if you gust on the scrim tail turn. Um, and so just that utility against'em. Against Iron Hands I thought was very important. And like against other decks, like genow too, or Lugia, um, or, I mean, Lugia has Jet, but like Genow doesn't really run switch cards right now. Um, so being able to like disconnect the, just like chaining iron hands can be big. And obviously that does come to the expense of like, um, using like mirage stuff, which you probably want to be using. Um, but just having like those utilities on like, like going from like literally losing a game on the spot to like having a chance, if you can build behind the MRA step, I, I thought was worth like the, the sacrifice of having like a low HP Pokegear one that's worth, worth against, like valiant or like rapid strike stuff like that.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Makes sense. And that's a good segue. So you guys played no VIP pass in your deck. Um, and Mirage step, as you just said, is a pretty big strategy when you're not playing VVIP pass. So, um, I guess in general, how did you guys land on Gardevoir? And then more specifically, how did you land on the no VIP pass, uh, side of Gardevoir?
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh, I mean for me it was like I was so dead set on Chen Pal. Like I literally didn't build any other decks when I went to LAIC. And then I was just like, I didn't realize like how close the Guardian matchup actually was for Chen Pal. And like, I knew Guardian was gonna be massive, just like that was just the whispering from like all the top players. So I'm like, okay. Like something I thought was my very best matchup is like not that free anymore. Like it's still good, but not free. Uh, and then I was just like. I should just be playing the best deck because LAIC like ics are just like, you need to get points at ics. Um, so I'm like, Hey, like the safest deck that'll get me points no matter what. Um, and then what's it called? Lucas Zing actually shared with me, like his guard of our build and his build was like, no, VIP pass. And like I just trusted that him and like his group are like solid. So like, the list looks really good. Um, and then we just made a few changes to it. Uh, and like I didn't, we didn't really like test the list like I played Gardevoir before, so like I kind of, I like knew how the deck works, but like a little bit different with like all the new tools. But that's kind of like how I, I ended up on it. But Jeremy, I think you, you were pretty set on Gardevoir, but you kinda like switched right?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, so, so Gardy was my number one choice for like, uh, a lot of my preparation for LASA. Um, and I was actually on a list that did run, VIP passed is um, I was big on running three rare candy'cause I actually really liked the option of foregoing mirage step. Um, getting an early guard EX because if you just get guard eex in, you can do a lot with cress and scream tail. Um, even if like you are able to like mirage step, get three Kirlia in play, it's not as good as it once was. Like,'cause in the past you could just mirage step and then just knock out three vs. And that was fine. Uh, but now you have like much more intricate like game plans and prize maps a lot of the time. So I, I was less leaning into Raj up. Um, but the night before, um, I was like really trying to figure out how to like fit all these cars. I wanted to my deck, like I wanted Turo, um, I wanted crass, I wanted scream tail. Um, I was adamant on the fish, um, collapsed, all, all this different stuff. Um, and running the no VIP like ball card package actually generated a few deck spaces. Um, so that's what was really entice enticing to me, um, because it was like, oh, you can run this. You still have, you're still able to like set up'cause you can rush it up a lot of the time. Um, even when you don't rush it up, it's still okay.'cause as long as you get a Guardi X, you're like fine usually. Um, and the it like had all the good cards I wanted to in it. Like I had the tarot, had the PAL pad it super cool. Uh, two counter catcher wanted all that stuff. Um, and another thing that's like underrated with Guardi two is like, um, I. Without having v IP pass, you're gonna have more like things where you just like lose very quickly'cause you just like don't get set up. But like, losing fast with Guardian is good because you can actually still finish a best of three in those scenarios. And I did that a bunch of times versus like, um, in Toronto, I basically just tied out of the tournament because I was like setting up for like winnable games, but then just eventually losing them. And I had like four Pybas by the time that like, uh, I finished like 2, 2, 4. Um, so, so losing fast with Guardi good. Um, you make some sacrifices, but get a few more deck base and just win the games that you play.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:So the, the list that you guys played did run two rare candy. Um, and I feel like I've seen this divide of like lists that play VIP pass run three rare candy and lists that don't run VIP pass run two rare candy, which seems a little unintuitive to me because, um, VIP pass more reliably gets you basics that you can then evolve to Kirlia and you don't have to mirage step as often, but, uh, with, without VIP you have to mirage step more often. And it seems like you would, uh, if you don't hit the Mirage step, you're more reliant on rare candy than the VIP pass version would be. So, uh, talk me through like, why'd you guys end up on two rare Candy
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, I'd say like, uh, the VIP list, like one thing I think to mention that we don't is we don't run Mew and like the VIP list, they all still run Mew, right? So it's like if you run Mew and like you get that in the act of turn one, especially like a matchup where they're not gonna knock it out on turn one, like you get like a chance to fish for the rare candy, like with, uh, whatever's mysterious tale. Um, and also it's like with that build, like when you play VIP pass, like you're gonna get, like if you want, like you can just put four routes on your board so you can just get like triple refinement plus for your candy guard. Like that happens a lot when you play that build. So with our build, like you like. Every game Mirage step is not prized. Like you want a mirage step. So like, yes, there's like nine to 10% of games where like you don't get to mirage step, but then like you just kind of like have to like manually evolve all your curliest to refinements and like, you probably don't get to attack turn two, but it's kind of like this a similar board to if you just like mirage step, just like worse'cause like you have less routes left over. Um, and like it's just most games like I'd say like 90 or like maybe 85% of your games, like you are gonna mirage steps. Like you don't really need to wear candy right away. You're just gonna evolve them manually and like you'll draw a rear candy through the flow of the game, like eventually to just use it. So I think that's the main reason we only played two. Um, again, like deck space and like our deck is just less aggressive. Like we don't have like the Mew to go super agro at the start to try and like turn to Gardevoir.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. I mean, it's having two rare candy is like enough to play the rare candies that you want to throughout the game. The third rare candy is really all about finding rare candy and then going turn two guardi. So that was like the list that I was testing like, um, prior to switching to the no VIP package. Where like you did wanna turn to go Candy EX, double refinement Kirlia. Um, versus like Karen said, with, with this, like, you just want a mirage step and then like, you'll play like the other rare candies like throughout the game just to like, keep continuity and like keep getting guardians in play. Um, but you, you just don't need to find it as early. So, so I agree with you. It's un-intuitive. Um, but that's kind of what makes it okay. I mean, I, I think Karen would agree we'd both love to have three candies, but, um, you gotta cut something. That's, that's kind of what defines guardian days is just like, what did you cut?
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Um, and so I gotta ask who I gotta ask about the one Nest ball. Um, so did you guys just have 59 cards and you're like, uh, what goes in here? Um, yeah. Talk us through Nest Ball.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I mean, when you cut VIP pass, like you cut like four cards that can find Manaphy and Greninja at the start of the game, uh, since they're not psychic Pokegear. Um, so like, obviously fog crystal's like really good, like getting psychic energy like to refine is good. But just like having that one extra card to help you get Manaphy or Greninja at the start of the game, it's just good. I thought, um, and like, honestly, like I didn't really, like, I don't think there's a single time to tournament where like I drew nest ball where I'm like, yo, I needed this to be like fog crystal for energy. So yeah, it just gives you an, an extra out to Greninja mainly and like, yeah, Manaphy if you need it.'cause there's some matchups like Chen, pa, um, where you need to get even like near sometimes, like you have to get vanity down like right away. So.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Mm-Hmm. Do you think it could be like. Could it ever be like a forest stone, because like you guys played lumon and Zacian. Um
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I mean, probably not. I, I just, I don't like forest stone like,'cause I just feel like you have to put like one of the VS down to use it. And like, there's a lot of times where I'm like, I do not want AV on my board. It like ruins my prize map. Um,
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:mm-Hmm.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:'cause like I feel like forest is good in the games where like you have to luminate on early, but like exhaustion usually like never comes down until it's like the very end. So, uh, I personally prefer the nest ball. I use it a lot. Like I think if it was a forest stone, it would've been worse for me this weekend.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Karen talked me off the, uh, the, the forest stone. Um, part of the reason is just like with this build, um, past guardy builds, like you don't actually have a vn play a lot of the time. Like in the past, like, especially like Lugia matchup, it was like super common for me to like have like a Shinx on the bench with a forest steel stone that just checkmates the game. Um, but now like the Shinx and the lumion always come down on the last time, that's like when they come down. You don't normally just like have a Shinx sitting in play. And also like forest steel stone's better if you run at least one VIP'cause you can find it with that.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:So speaking of Zacian, you guys played Zacian, um, and not the Cape, which, uh, a lot of people did and some people even played both, um, I think toward Rand, both. Um, so how'd you, why'd you guys play Shinx over the Cape? Oh, oh. And just not play the Cape in general.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I mean, like Jeremy and I both were talking about this like the night before. It was just like, Sasha and Kate kind of do the same thing. They just enable like a, a basic to take a big knockout. And I'm like, well, Zacian I can find with Ultra Ball or Fog Crystal Cape, we don't play any search for Cape. So it's like kind of hard to find the Cape. And the other thing is like you actually use Scream Tail like a lot in your game, so it's probably gonna get knocked out. So that's probably, you have to super audit as well and then find a cape. Uh, so I think it was just for us, it's like they do the same thing and Zacian is just easier to use and like they both give up two prizes basically. Um,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, totally agree with that. Just can't find it.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, that makes sense. Um, For stadium bumps. You guys played one worker, which is fine, whatever. And you had the pal padd, so they kind of synergized together. Um, and then you had collapsed artisan, pretty standard, and then you still played the vacuum. So the vacuum I think is, I, I really like vacuum in general, but I've only played vacuum really with Mew. And there's a lot of synergy there, obviously with Mew. Uh, it allows you to find it later in the game if you get iono. Um, so why, why did you guys end up keeping vacuum instead of like second artisan, which would make a lot of sense with the no VIP build.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh, I think I've been going first a lot. So, Jeremy, why don't you go first?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, so the number one reason for me was, um, Baard matchup. Um, I felt like a lot of people would want to play zd just'cause Z's like the type of deck that like you can set up, play like a pretty like linear game plan and just like, uh, it's just a really good deck, obviously. Um, but like the C Zd matchup against Gardy is like generally bad. So I felt like a lot of the ARDS were gonna run like eventual punch or something like that. And just being able to remove that makes you allowed to just go like 2, 2, 2 against them without having to worry about like your kind of guard getting knocked out by eventual punch. So that's the main reason. It also like, it's a path bump of course, and it has like a lot of utility against like decks that will try to like checkmate you by having like a seal stone on the bench. Um, since Guardy iss such a come from behind deck, especially when you're playing like the mirage step lines, um, often all they need to like convert their like advantage that they build up in the early game is just like a boss at a key moment. Um, and so like having a seal stone, if they don't have to use it early and they can just leave it on the bench, that allows'em to just like secure that. So like at some point you wanna be able to find that vac, um, to remove their seal stone and just like take that away from them. Especially'cause like now against like Mariah on a lot of the time that you're like scream tailing their squawk, um. Instead of like just knocking out like another v Um, and so you can't like attack the thing with the, the seal stone. You're actually instead going after the squawk. So you wanna be able to like, remove that, that threat. Like in another way, it's actually funny, I had a game against Anil where he had like double seal stone and like, I almost like Avery to remove, like make him dis discredit at least one of the seal stones so that I could vacuum the other. Um, I didn't end up doing it and that's the game I dropped in our set. Um, and so like, I, I think that just speaks to how important like removing seal stones is.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I'd say vacuum as a card. Like it's not on a deck for like one specific reason. It's just like a almost like safe card. It's like if I face anyone playing like box of disasters, if I face anyone playing like Big charm sometimes like, uh, but I think the best use of vacuum is actually in Gardevoir mirror is like if it collapses down, like, or it gets dly collapse, like you can just get rid of collapse and put your own. I really like doing that. And then one thing I hadn't even thought of but it was really relevant is like I played against like a Snorlax stall deck twice and I would like turro, whatever, like was track trapped active or if I just drew like a manatee for example, I would lost vacuum it. And like our deck only has three targets, like to like put on the bench. So taking one of'em outta the game forever is like really important. So, uh, that was something that was really good for me.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:That is a really funny use case. Um, yeah, and I guess like, uh, against me ride-on, or, and iron hands in general, like getting rid of the charm can be really
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:yet they charm a squawk. You can't scream tail it. So,
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. And, and against the hands. It's an extra ener. It's too extra energy. Yeah. It's too extra energy. Yeah. So that math is really relevant. Cool. Um, anything else in the trainers? Oh yeah. Talk to us about Turo. Um, so like some guard of or list played it, but a lot did not. Um, why'd you play it and was it good
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh, yeah, it was really good. Uh, so like one thing with Gardevoir, like in general, uh, especially mirrors is like if you start using Lia, your energy get kind of stuck across the board. Uh, so Turo is a nice way to like, reset the energy. I want a mirror match.'cause my opponent thought like all my energy was spread out and I couldn't ization him. And so he attacked me with the Guardia and I was like, all right, collapsed anter. So I got all the energy off my board um, that, so that's good. It's also healing.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:That's vicious
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:we didn't play gerace. So like if we're playing against lost box, for example, and like damages on the board, like you tack with the guard of our early, or you like get like, stable out something like it's heel, um, like in Miramax at the end of the game, like usually if you're ahead, what you wanna do is like when you go, before you get onto one, you wanna take your guard far off the board so they can't take two. So it has that utility. Obviously if you play against stall, like it's huge and we play pal pad, so it basically like, lets us take two prizes. Um, yeah, I just thought the card was really good. I used it a lot. Like, uh, I faced stall twice and like I used it in Mirror a lot. Um, yeah. Jeremy did, I think you've thought the card was good too, right?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:y Yeah, I mean, it's so, so the weird thing about the card is it's like, it's the one card that doesn't really like gel with the rest of the deck. Um, like a lot of the other cards like, just kinda like fit into like the flow of your, like normal game plans, whereas Toro's like, kind of like, it, it feels outta place a lot of the time and there's a lot of games where you're just like, I don't wanna see this card. Like vacuum it ultra ball, get it out of there. Um, but I had a lot of games where it like, that was like why I won, especially like in Guardian Mewtwo, like you can just set up these like checkmate boards. Uh, I also had a game where like I wanted to collapse my like guard EX, um, but I didn't have enough like one prizes to like fill my bench, so I collapsed it. And so I fished for Turo, collapsed the fish, and then Turo, the Guard EX, um, which was a lot of fun. Um, so yeah, it, it just lets you like, do like cool things like that obviously against stall. Like it swings it, we didn't expect to play against like much stall at all, but like it fixes that much of a ton of them, like just like random utility elsewhere. And like the games that you use it, like you're really, really happy you had it.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:I think. Um, one thing that's interesting, and it's something I think about all the time when I'm building decks, but I don't know that everybody does, as you guys are talking, it's like when you make When you choose to play a certain card, you also have to think about how that affects the choices of all of your other cards as well. So like, Karen, you like for, just as an example, you mentioned you didn't play Gerace, so Turo is a much more considerable card to play. Uh, and just like the give and take, uh, uh, of, of all of that. Um, okay. One other trainer question, uh, we talked about it briefly, um, before we started recording, is Avery, you guys, everybody was like super hype on Avery, um, in Gardevoir, the Australian list that, uh, also made top eight played two. Avery I mentioned, uh, I ran my cup this past weekend and Ryan Antonucci won the cup with four Avery in his Gardevoir.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:What a good.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:was just, just trolling a little bit, but you guys actually said that even your one Avery was, was not that great.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. So, uh, our like last cut for the deck was cutting second Avery to fish, which was like an amazing cut. Um, it was just like, I don't know, like there's not that many matches where you like, you need to Avery like Chen pal is one matchup where you need to do it. But like a lot of times, like they don't even set up tutu bibs. Like I don't have to do it. And then mirror is the other one. But when you play mirror, like what happens a lot of the time with the board is your opponent puts like a scream tail and like a manife down and then like I just start doing clia so I'm like, I don't really care about Avery them anymore.'cause like they already have like two spots on their board that aren't carnivores.'cause like I find to use it, like you need to draw it like at the perfect time. and like we only played one copy and like it's really hard to draw one copy of a card at the perfect time. It's like I just, I wasn't finding that I was getting it at the right time. Like I think once or twice during the tournament I used it where I'm like, oh, this was like really effective. But like most of the time it was literally just like draw three. And then we were talking about this earlier, Mike, like if you face against a deck that has like two prize liabilities, like it literally reads like play collapse for them, like to get rid of their, like fish, get rid of their like squawk. So it's like that wasn't good. So I mean, I would still keep the card obviously,'cause like you need to have it so your opponent respects it, but maybe they would respect it, like even if you don't play it. But yeah, for me I didn't, I didn't use it a lot.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, that was very much my experience as well. Like the, the huge downside of like playing the one is like, I just didn't have it a lot of the time that I wanted it. Um, like we were not getting like a lot of like high value Averys, which I imagine a lot of guardian players who played like two or even three were. Um, but you get so much value just from like having the threat. Like you basically, if you're playing like a guardian player, you basically have to play as like, uh, if you're ha if you only have four bench Pokegear and like every turn you just like evaluate, like, like if they Avery next turn, like, does that completely destroy my board? And you have to play like, according to that. So the threat is like 80% of the value. And then like, you get like a little bit more value for each AVR you actually play. And like IO is so good too. Like you don't want to like, like every turn that you could be ing like you also could be iono. Um, and so like I. Uh, just playing Avery Santa my is like, not as great, but yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, uh, Jeremy, you made me think about this. So playing against Mirror. like, and start and thinking about how to play around Avery. So would you say you often keep your bench at four?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Um,
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Um
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:I would say that you keep your, you don't keep your bench at four necessarily. Um, but like, you want to avoid giving them like, awesome Avery turns. So like, if your bench is already like guard EX, like refinement, refinement, like Greninja, like you don't wanna like bench like another route.'cause that would turn like a good Avery into a great Avery. Um, but like, uh, and we actually looked at this like when Karen and I were doing a, AV review of my stream match earlier, like you can, like, there was a term that like I could have benched a manife where like I should have, because I was gonna just like discard the manife anyway. So that was me like overplaying around Avery, where like you don't like need to like, um, like keep it, but like if they already like, probably don't want to Avery or like, it's just like, it doesn't make their Avery that much better, then you don't need to just like keep it for, um, but like, you definitely don't wanna like give them like no-brainer. Avery plays also, like, one of the things that we also discussed, like having like a big hand also protects against Avery because like, you wanna make them like, choose between playing Avery and io. Um, but if you like play IO yourself and put your hand down to like, like four or five cards and then like, you don't like use your like refinements and Arceus after that, um, to like rebuild your hand to like eight to 10 cards. Um, then you give them like a super, uh, easy Avery because they can just Avery destroy all your draw and then you're left with like four cards in their draw. Um, so like, it's, it's really, it, it drives how you approach your turns. Um, but there aren't like hard and fast rules as to like What? You should keep your button shut though, though. That can be the case.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:that makes sense. I was playing a game on live, uh, yesterday and I got Avery and I feel like it does put you in some weird situations. Like the correct play, like in that moment was actually to keep the Manaphy and discard ac Kirlia and, uh, I, I feel like it's unintuitive and you do have to think about it.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. I had that happen to me actually, uh, in one of my games.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Um, especially like if you're trying to like, play around a cape or something like that. Like
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. And for people listening, the reason you do that is so if you discard Manaphy, like your Kirlia gets knocked out anyways, but if you discard Kirlia, you can keep Manaphy on your board. Then if you use Lia instead your opponent just has a scream tail. It's like kind of useless on their board. Um, yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:That's basically the exact situation I was in. Like, I had Celia Active, I was like, okay, yeah. Kill, kill my, kill my Clia Like go for it. Um, okay. Uh, so pretty much almost done talking about the list, but the only other call outs I wanted to discuss was, um, the inclusion of both Scream Tail and clia. Um,'cause I think going into the event, a lot of the discussion was like, which one do you play? Or, um, and, and it, there wasn't too much talk about playing both, but it seems like a lot of the best players did play both. Uh, so that's one thing. Uh, so let's talk about that quick.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Uh, your mirror match is just like bad if you don't play both. Uh, I played against I think two people who didn't play cri, and I was like, all right, Manaphy and I win the game because you're basically like, uh, you get to take out a Kirlia every single turn and they don't, um, which is just massive in the matchup. Like the, the way the matchup goes pretty much is like you take turns knocking out each other's draw engine, like you keep spamming iono until one person like can't keep going. Uh, so there's that. And then also, um, we didn't play gi, which I think is something like a lot of people cut CLIA for. So we did need CLIA for like any loss box matchups we played any Giratina we played. Um, because yeah, I think that's been the main cut, right? They're like, oh, like if I'm playing gerace, like I don't need CLIA for loss on matchup anymore. But then you're really hurting a mirror if you don't play clia. So, uh, it's like give and take. But I would just play CLIA just'cause it does seem like guard Devore is gonna be like 15 to 20% of the meta going forward.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. And like having a branch Gerace is pretty bad in
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yep. I played against some people who would like, they been Manatee GCE and like one guy had like a scream tail on the board too. I'm like those three Pokegear are never leaving the board.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:And that's when you don't wanna
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:in the mirror.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. Um, crest is also actually kind of important against Chen Pow, um, because of, uh, bad's ability, um, when you Avery them. They can actually discard the bib instead of
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:That was the big
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:And then you can't snipe the, you can't snipe the, uh, the BDOs. And like, you, you can't like io them the term that you play, Avery. It's like if they're holding a BRE or like an ultra ball already, like no brainer. Discard, discard the bib. Don't get scrim tailed and just like keep like bdo, pow, pow. And then you don't even need Manaphy'cause your producer already protect or not pow, uh, backs. Backs.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:All right. Last thing about the list. So you mentioned that you cut second Avery for the fish. So Jeremy, Jeremy is very ecstatic. Talk to us about fish, Jeremy.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:So Phish is like one of the most like, misunderstood cards in Gardevoir. Um, and people think it's like often just like a bailout, like early game if you like, don't draw a supporter in your opening hand, which like it is, um, it definitely like has that ability and just allows you to play games that you like, wouldn't get to play in otherwise. Um, but one of like the main things about Phish is like, I. Finding your one boss or one research at the end of the game. Um, we run four ultra balls and the way that game like guardian games are playing out these days is like all your curlys are getting like destroyed throughout the course of the game. So you go from like having like amazing draw like turned three to like having like almost no draw like by the end of the game.'cause you're like using our chronic guard virus to attack and guardian mirrors, like all your Kirlia are getting sniped off the board. Um, and so like often like to convert like a winning advantage, you just need to like play a boss at the end. Or even like if you're behind, you can like ultra ball for like phish to find research and then draw like Zacian counter catcher, which like, that's like a gu and a big attacker, like just offline ultra ball. Um, and so like the late game utility is like massive, especially like when you have ultra balls and like the guard DeVores that are running new should even more be running fish because then you basically just like. Have like a guaranteed like supporter on board with like Mew for ultra ball, for fish. Um, and so like the late game utility is just amazing. And another thing like PE people will often point to like Phish being like a huge liability. Um, and like, that's kind of true, but like you're, you're running guard EX, so like you already have a, um, a two prizer on board, which like many decks are like built, uh, to be able to like KO. Um, so like that's like already your two prize liability. Um, but like the liability is like mitigated by like you're already having a two prizer on board and you already have like free curs that they want a Koko as well, plus like maybe a spring tail that they also wanna deal with. So like you have so many like, good options that they, they wanna remove from your board that like, having one more is like not that bad in like exchange for like doing like literally whatever you want. Um, uh, in a turn. And so, so that's why I love Phish and just like finding like iOS or Avery or any of your supporters or Tarro even like at Key times, um, just like allows you to like win the games you're supposed to win instead of like having like random opportunities to like miss throughout the game. Yeah.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Pretty much echo that. Like Mike, I think you pointed on Twitter that I was a big fish hater who has been converted to the light
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Well, dude, you used it so effectively on Stream, like it was crazy. You used Phish three times in two games. Like the, the second game in particular. I think you used it, uh, to set up in the early game, and then you collapsed it away. You super added it back and then used it to basically win the game at the end. Uh, it's just, yeah. Really
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I think what the most important thing that Jeremy said is if you've played guard war in the last format, like you had three boss, so like in this format, if you're ever ahead with Gardevoir, it's actually really hard to draw your one copy of boss. So like yeah, it basically just gives you like five more outs in your deck to get boss.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Um, anything else about the list that you guys want to call out? I
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Um, I think the one really good card that we put in is we put one research for the fourth IOI think that was really important. So I think Jeremy mentioned earlier that late in the game, like Uh, having a research is really nice since obviously like sometimes you have to go for those big plays where you need to draw budget cards. Like you have counter catcher now, so like, drawing seven is actually good. There's a lot of good things that come off of that. Um, and also like things like against char art or, or there's a lot of decks where like you need that, like turn two, turn three, like nine energy, like reversal guard wire. And like a lot of times like you need to research, like you need to go as aggressive as possible. Like it gets energy in the discard. Um, so I think that was just a call. Like I really liked having the research in my deck and like also if you watch my stream game, like my opponent had a bad hand, so I was able to just fish for research and like stick him with it. So I really liked playing the research and that was, uh, that was Jeremy's idea.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:There might have even been one game. I don't actually know if it was one of you guys or another guard Devore player. I think it was one of you guys though, where you fished for research, but it was like in your last two or three prizes, um, and you had to like iono instead. Um,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:I'm
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Um, oh, I, I think, I think you might be talking about like, my game, um, against Natalie. It was like right at the end, um, where I had like a guard EX active. I believe that she had a guard EX active, or I had a Kirlia active, which eventually became a guard. EX. She had a guard EX active. And like, the perfect term for me would've been like exhaustion to knock it out. And so like being able to like fish for that would've been good. Um, I did know at the time that the research wasn't in deck, um,
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:right. But it we would've been like in, yeah, it would've been incredible. But it was like literally in your last two or three prizes.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Right. And, and it, it would've been even more incredible if I had rotted the Shinx earlier on. Um, I held the rods a little bit too long, um, probably. Um, but yeah, no, like being able to do that at the end is like super, super good. Um, and then like one other thing about the list, like us nodding, not running VIPs is like not a manifesto to not run VIPs in Gardevoir, like this was acrobatics to generate space in the deck. Um, because we like wanted all these good cards, we want it to be as teched out as we possibly could for like Gardevoir Mirror. Um, many Gardevoir list should probably still run VIPs. Um, there are situations where if you, if you need all the weapons to be able to like win these games, like you can cut'em and that's an option. Um, but this is definitely not a statement that you don't need VIPs and Guardi. Like, I would've loved to have VIPs if I could
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, I think just calling out like since Guard did so well at LAIC, like I feel like the meta is gonna like shift, be even more aggressive since that is one way you can capitalize. Like obviously like moron's, like really good if you have to turn two hands going first or turn one hand, like you're gonna win. So you almost guarded our going forward. I actually might suggest playing the VIP build'cause like I think having the option to turn to guard devore is actually gonna be really important. Like, uh, as the Melmetal like shifts.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Well, you guys are actually hitting on something that I, I wanted to talk about. I was gonna talk about it at the end, but we could talk about it now. Um. I, I was talking with Ryan, uh, at, at our cup this past weekend, and I honestly feel like, and I'm curious if you guys agree that especially coming out of LASC, the guard Ofor lists are a little bit all over the place. Um, and a lot were very successful and looked quite different with each other. And personally, I feel like Gardevoir is in a place right now and maybe always has been. Um, but I think it, it is in particular right now that the list, getting the perfect list doesn't really matter nearly as much as just playing the deck really well. Um, and getting experience with that. Would you guys kind of agree.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, I'd agree with that. Um, I mean, like realistically, like once you get past, like turn one and turn two, like the deck plays the exact same no matter how you built it. Uh, because like the cards, like we've discussed that like are different, like the IP pass, like if you play our build you like, you just have more ultra balls and fogs at the end. Um, or maybe like you have crest instead of drawings you, which kind of changes it. But the core strategy is the same. Like you play IO every turn, you have your counter catchers. Uh, all that, but yeah, it's just mainly like how fast and aggressive you wanna have your deck. And like, if you play our version, like you have a much stronger mid to late game since you don't have as many dead cards in your deck. Uh, but if you play the other version, you have a more consistent early game. So it's just like a trade off of like what you, what you value as a player.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. And, and the one other thing I'd add to that is I think the most important thing right now is, and, and this is true for every deck, but for Guardian especially. You wanna make sure that your deck is like self-consistent. Um, like if you are not running phish, which you should be, but it's fine to not run phish. Um, like running like one research makes like way less sense. Um, so like, it, it is about what you, me mentioned earlier, Mike, like considering cards together and like having cards that like make sense in the deck together. Or like if you're running spirit toum, like maybe you shouldn't be running fish. Like stuff like that. Um, it, the selfs consistency trumps like what's actually in the deck. And then to your point, playing it well is obviously very important and
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Cool.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:playing according to the list. You have
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That well, yeah. Um, okay, cool. Uh, so thank you guys for going so in depth into all of your card choices that I think is really informative. Um, we don't need to go obviously through every single matchup. You guys played a lot of games of Pokegear. Um, and you talked, uh, quite a bit about the Gardevoir mirror, so I don't even know how much we need to talk about that. But, uh, are there any matchups, uh, that you guys are think are particularly interesting to talk about? Um, in particular, I am curious about what you think of the Chi Andow matchup, Kieran.'cause like you said, you thought it was closer than, than you initially thought it was. And I'm ac and I'm particularly curious if you think it's closer now that she and Empower runs iron hands versus running the Cologne package.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh, so, okay, so I think it's actually closer with Iron Hands now.'cause the reason being is like if you just turn to iron hands, like Gardevoir does not have time to mirage depth. Like they have to respond right away, or the game is done on the spot. And the other thing is, if you put an iron hands in the active, it's like they can do like their like counter catcher, kill my bib, kill my, my backs. But then it's like, yeah, I'm just gonna iron hands you again. So it's just like The thing before with Chimp Pal was like, your energy comes off the board all the time, but iron hands like leaves the energy in play and it just puts like so much pressure. Like it, it's like easier to get turned to iron hands than it is to get turned to switcher cologne. But the old version of Chimp Pal, like you don't need switcher cologne right away. Uh, and you can build towards it. So like in a vacuum, like if counter catcher and scream tail didn't exist, the switcher clone version would still have a better guard our matchup. But since those cards exist, the iron hands like makes the deck have a better, better matchup.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Hmm. Okay. Interesting. Um, cool. Uh, a deck you guys both played against quite a bit was lasso Giratina, um, and you guys beat it mostly, I think, Jeremy, that was or one of you lost to it, right? Jeremy?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:went to one against it.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I went 2 0 1 against it, so yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Okay. Um, how does that match up play out similar to how it was before
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh, I think it's even better than the before, to be honest.'cause now we get counter catcher. Uh, so just like, I don't know, it felt really good for me. Like I fall behind sometimes even like two prizes, but I'm like, all right, I can always knock out one of your Giratina. Um, and again, like they're putting less pressure than a normal loss on box. Like, I'm not scared about getting stable. I'd turn to, so like, I like have time to like mirage up like, um, and like I have time to set up my board. And also like their deck is just like kind of clunky and like it's very susceptible to Iono. Yeah. Liam's nodding his head.'cause like if you watch my stream match, like my opponent literally got stuck like a lot of the games. Um, I dunno, I just, the match I felt like slightly favored to me. Like I felt like I could lose, but like, it literally just felt like any game where I just like drew normally and set up like I won. I dunno if you felt the same Jeremy.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Um, not exactly, I mean, I was definitely much more like nervous playing against it. I also like, just kind of like stopped thinking about like Giratina as a deck, um, going into the tournament because I was like, okay, it's fine. Like you kinda have to play against it, like as if it's a lost box deck, but they have like slightly different weapons. Um, and I kind of didn't think it would convert super well just'cause it is so clunky. Um, so I was like super surprised when I hit like three in a row in day two. Um, and the first one was the one that I lost to, and, and that's when I thought things were starting to fall apart. Um, I, and I actually, I, I made a mistake going against the, the first one too. I went first, um, in both of the games. Um, and I think it's actually pretty important to go second, especially with our list. Um,'cause you want to get like two rolls down in a Manaphy. Um, and the games that I lost and went first, um, I just got like, uh, I either couldn't find Manaphy or my Manaphy got crammed on turn one. And then both of those like, um, uh, Gabriel just blew up my, my curlers with Greninja turn two, which like is like kind of lucky'cause Giratina doesn't really do that that often. Um, but like, uh, you have to kind of assume that opponent's going to be able to like piece that together. I think the matchup is fine. It is kind of weird because it's like both players kind of like want to be behind. Um, but like you're kind of hoping almost as guardy that like they get a little bit ahead, but like not too ahead. Um, because, um, like you'd love for your reversals and counter catchers and iOS to all be like really good against'em. Um, but if you go behind like two prize cards, it's actually like pretty hard to find like two times that you can like, get back into the game. Especially when they're stabilized are usually going at least like, like taking at least one prize card. Um, and so like, ideally like if you're down one prize card, once you get rolling, like you're just gonna, you're just gonna slowly pick them apart. Um, but if you get down to, it's like harder to do that. But like, it is helpful that like, you know, that if they don't have, uh, if they don't have multiple Giratina in play. Um, you can like knock it out and then you know that your guardian X can't get KA with the following term. Um, and if they only have one TN in play or no, and if they have multiple TN in play, then your prize map gets easier'cause you have two Giratina, you know, you can ka um, and you can just do that three prize cards, leave yourself exposed like a two prize turn, which is fine'cause you win on the following term. Um, so it's an interesting matchup. Like Karen said, it's probably good, um, would be better with Dachi. Um, but it's always a little bit scary, especially like Roxanne path.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:If you play gi, I think the match ups like at least 70 30.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. Yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, the dynamic of, uh, trying to stay behind but not too far behind is pretty interesting. I only played the matchup a couple times, but that I also felt that, like, there was, there was one game I played a couple days ago where like they were, oh, they were ahead. One prize the whole game, and then they didn't take a prize, one turn, and then I just like Chris Elliott onto their Giratina right. To like not take a prize. Uh,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Hmm.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:and then they like basically lost the game after
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. I think one, one thing too is like, as a Latino player, like, um, is instead of taking like a cram knockout on your second turn, it's like actually like correct sometimes to like a BS seeking to like get to ten first before you take your prizes. Um, I mean, I just, it's a matchup. Like I honestly, I, I haven't tested enough to come to a conclusion, but I do think like there's a route where the guino player just like uses a BSS seeking, like at the start, like a lot and like gets to 10 in the loss sum before they even start doing anything.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Mm-Hmm. And it, it's kind of weird too because like Toro is one thing that kind of keeps them in line. Um, because they can't just like play like the strategy of just like, save life, spread damage all across your board, which might be a valid strategy otherwise to like go behind like two price cards themself and then like Reem, like a gardy, and then like just take the remaining price cards to save life. So Soro kind of keeps em in land a little bit. Um, but like, it still is that like strategy of like trying to like. S like you don't wanna be a little bit behind as a either player or, uh, you do wanna be a little bit behind as both players. You don't wanna be a little bit ahead as either player.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yep.
squadcaster-4acc_1_11-21-2023_170437:Um, I always take the, the opportunity to slander Giratina. I, I haven't found that that dynamic at all. Um, I think it's totally fine to be a lot behind against Giratina because like, like you play IO and they're, they basically have zero cards in their hand, right? And like, so like at least the, the way I typically play the matchup is I spend the entire game building up a Arceus kind of guard of war with zero damage on it. Um, and then I boss ka to Giratina because I'm like cress to hit the Giratina. And then I Giratina and then stable eye and cram both. Can't take prizes next turn, and I, I them to two, then I remove their other attacker. It's cooked for them.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, that, that, that's true. Li and I, I've actually joked about it in our chat. Part of part of my like, paranoia about Giratina is I prize cress like 80% of the time against them. And like the matchup becomes like so much harder when you prize cress because you can't build up that no damage arcana. Like you do feel like your board is just getting set up to be like swept in like two, three turns. Um, so yeah, I, I mean I, I'm really curious how like to and Gustavo were, were like playing against Giratina if they were just writing off that matchup or if there's some like big vein, big brain Strat with like the double collapse, that still makes it fine. Um, but like not having crests or gerace seems like that matchup would be really like terrifying
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yep.
Track 1:were probably like, we can just outplay anybody that plays gu Giratina. fine. It's fine.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:be fair?
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:is. It is pretty interesting that Toward and Gustavo landed on a list with no Celia and no fish. That's, yeah, that's pretty crazy. Um.
Track 1:The, the no fish is wildly outta character for Tod.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:I know. Yeah. It's crazy. Three research, too many
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Well, that, that was part of my logic. I'm like, I'm not cutting the fish'cause I wanna like have at least some chance of running the same sixties tour and then I'll know that I have the best guardian list. Um, no, their list, their list was very interesting and, um, I've refused to write off any list that both to and Gustavo played. Um, but they must have been approaching it like, really differently than like how we were approaching it. Um, I, I don't see the merit, uh, immediately, but I'm sure there's something there to like, just having all the supporters.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. Well, it'll be really telling like what list toward plays at the next major tournament, because it'll be, it'll be like, how much does he change? Right. How much was he influenced by other people's results?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, I, I'm curious about that as well.'cause he tends to just run like the same list, like tournament after tournament, like one card changed based on the meta. Um, I, I haven't seen many cases of him just being like, yeah, list list was bad. Like, didn't prepare accordingly.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:his worlds list, I think, I don't know if he actually ever released his NAIC list'cause he didn't make day two, but I would bet his worlds list was pretty different from what he played at NAIC.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. I mean, NAIC was a pretty big, like, meta shift, I think. Um, because like the, like nobody rent MRA stuff before Worlds. Um,
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:the double reversal and the vacuum,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:right. And I
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:was like,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:think NAIC was like all like, the Arceus architects like really shifted it to be like, like, you can win such a high percentage of your games by just going Mirage step, Orana, Orana, Shinx. Um, and that's what the world's list and subsequent lists were built for. Um, first, I mean, maybe something similar would happen at the, after the tournament, but, um,
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:true.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:I, I wonder what the approach was because I, I don't see what the list is like trying to do really. Um, but I'm, I'm sure given the quality of both those players like it, there's like a good, good hypothesis behind it.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. All right. There's two other metrics. Uh, and I know we've been going for almost an hour, so I don't want to do too much time, uh, too much more time, but two other matchups briefly. Um, first is the Snorlax deck. So, uh, both of you played against the same Japanese player that played Snorlax, uh, and had some, uh, experiences against him. But just talk us about the
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, so I think the matchup, uh, for our build was like really favored. Like we had Turo and Pal Padd, so I felt literally like, as long as I didn't start with something that couldn't retreat, I'm like, this is unusable. Um, and that's kind of how my match played out. Like, uh, I remember my, so I played the first day I played as a Japanese guy. Um, the first, like I started like Crest or something. I literally just went fog crystallization uses ability and I literally just powered them both up. And those are like my only attackers.'cause I'm like, okay, like I don't care that I'm like two shotting his SSN waxes. Like that's fine. And then, uh, eventually like they're gonna span my own or like eventually they're probably gonna eventually hit their s and that's fine. Like what you wanna do is like, once that happens, then just build up your board with like curls and guard of horse and then just Turo, then ultra ball and super odd, the Pokegear away. Or, um, the other thing you can do is like I was saying, like you can lost vacuum, whatever it is. And then the one really important thing is if they ever do get something stuck or you're like, uh, like open to getting something Ed or like, uh, echoing Horn and boss is like, you need to make sure you have pal padd.'cause they can misfortune sister right away. But honestly, like I just found like, like it's like kind of counterintuitive, but it's actually fine to like set up Kirlia and guard DeVores and all that to draw.'cause like you actually just like take prizes so fast against them that like they can't do everything every turn. Like their only draws like Rotem v. So like, you can be scared of like all these different options they have. Like it's actually insanely difficult for'em to have'em all at once. And like, I would just say Iono until I'm like, okay, like I'm gonna have a turn where I might be a little susceptible to something. So I'm like, okay, io and then do whatever play I had planned. Um, but yeah, I felt good. Like the, uh, I two owed them day one and then like day two, like I won the first game. And like game two I started Phish. And then like, I like did the play where I toured it Ultra Paul super added away. And then like, I think he played ab the turn before or something. So then like, I had like Greninja prized. I like took Greninja off my prize and he played Erica that turn. And I was like, are you serious? And then he like, misfortune assisted my pal pad. Uh, otherwise I would've just won that game. So
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:just series of
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:it was just like a lot of things went wrong for me to like lose that game. But I like the way we built the deck. Like, I actually felt like the matchup was like 80 20 maybe. Like, I was like, I remember day two when I saw I got paired against him. I was like, okay, let's go like that. I've been like, we had the same record the whole day. Like I was like, I was hoping to get paired against him like every round. So yeah.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. Uh, it, it's a very interesting matchup. Um, it's definitely like not a matchup that you can just be like, I have Turo, I have Boss, I have PAL Pad, and be like, I'm chilling. Like that is a matchup that like, if you're like taking guard to like a serious event, like you should actually prepare.'cause it's really hard matchup to play. Um, especially like getting out of the gates. Like just having like the Turo, the boss of the pal pad is not enough. You also have to like time them really well and then like be prepared to not get like trapped in like the subsequent terms. Um, because, uh, like you can just lose very quickly, um, if like something else gets brought up. Even if you manage to use your resources to get down to one prize. Um, another thing that like. I think it's under-discussed in, in the Japanese players list, was that he runs through Iono. So like, I think a lot of, like the common lists just run like one or something like that. And so like the second you had pow pat in your hand, you're kind of chilling even if you didn't have the boss in Duro yet.'cause you could just like leave those in the deck and draw them eventually. And like they're actually just thinning to it by playing this fortune sisters as much at times. Um, but by like playing iono, whenever your hand gets to a certain size, they put your pal pad and like rods, which are also important, like back into the deck, uh, ultra balls as well. Um, they put those all back into the deck and then they can like Fortune sisters those again. And like, it's kind of a metric where you like don't wanna get like, um, too Turbo because like if you can't fill your bench with stuff, you risk a. Um, you risk getting like Avery to Shorned, stuff like that. Um, but if you play too slow, then like, they're gonna io they're gonna eventually rip the pal pad in the rods. Um, and then you're just not gonna have enough weapons to like, um, get through the game. So it, it's a very interesting matchup. Um, we're probably favored with our list, but,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I, yeah,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:not free.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:it's not free. I, I still am like adamant it's like really good. But a, a couple other places to look out for is, like, what I would do a lot of times is I would save my owno until like I drew like one of my like fish or like, whatever. And then what I would do is then I would like, I would ultra ball or and level ball for like manii and Greninja and then I would play iono to send'em to the bottom. Um,'cause the only way they can shuffle my deck is if they play misfortune sisters. So I would literally just not play another shuffle card. And like, I would like, it's kind of hard to like get an exact count, but like I would kind of keep count of roughly how much cards are in my hands when it says to the bottom like, how many cards are in my deck. So I have like a rough idea of how many turns I'm working with. Um, so that was important. And then another call out that, like, I did this to him once. Like I started lation one game and I just like kept using the ability and like that was my only attacker. So I was basically forcing him to put, mimic you into play. Um, so he put mimic you and then once he did that, like what I did is I just put a scream, tail, put four energy on it, and then I'm like, you only play two switch cart. So like, I'm gonna snipe your snore axi on the bench and like, you're not gonna switch cart one active.'cause I'm gonna still knock it out. And I'm like, it's really hard for you. Like you can't really, like you can penny and counter catcher if you want to bring something else. But like, I basically just like made his like life hell of that game. Like it was like really hard for him.'cause like I was just picking off the snorkel axis on the bench and I'm like, I'm leaving a mimic you and play here. I'm never gonna let you retreat this'cause you only play two ways to switch. I didn't know he only played two switch cart, but like my gut feel was I'm like, yo, I don't even know if you play like a way to switch. So,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:yeah. Most, most are on like one.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:So I just,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:is like higher end.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:And then eventually what ended up happening was like, okay, he couldn't even get like his sax active and then like, I just started, like, I put like damage on his like, uh, rotom. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna snipe this off the board next. So. Uh, that was another really cool play that I, it felt really strong when I was playing the matchup. So if you can maybe get to that, like, I think that's pretty good.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, there's also like crazy mind games in the matchup too. Um,'cause like you have to be thinking like what supporter, like they're going to be playing. Um,'cause like if you like have like a four card hit, like they're probably not gonna Eric's, um,'cause it's also like really risky too. If you already have, like, say you have a cross active, which like isn't that big of a threat. Like they're not gonna risk like bringing up like, like a vault or something, like a teleportation burst vault, which is like good for you to have active. Um, so you can kind of get into their head like that way. Um, and like it's very important, like when you draw the Manaphy, like do not think for three minutes if you've like thought like for like 10 seconds on your past, like a few turns, like it's just a dead giveaway. Like it's gonna slam the airs the second they draw their card. Um, or if you don't draw the manife, maybe think for three minutes
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:That's
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:there, there's my game. It's a cool matchup.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:it was actually, it was, uh, the matchup itself was fun to play, so definitely enjoyed playing at Snorlax
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah, the matchup.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Um, the, uh, the last matchup that I wanted to talk about was the one that eventually knocked our Hero out of the tournament is me ride-on. So I think collectively you guys only played against me ride-on three times, maybe the whole tournament. Jeremy played against it twice. And Kieran just the one time at the very end, uh, some very different ride-on lists. Uh, from my understanding, like Kieran's Buddy Ail lost to Jeremy in one of the last rounds, I think it was second to last round. Um, and his list was, uh, very different than, than the list that ended up winning the events. Um, but I still think the idea of having to play around a quick iron hands is, is similar in both. So, um, Meridan was definitely favored for Gardy before, but it was probably closer than uh, people thought. Um, especially like with the, with the Judge path versions. How does the dynamic of the matchup change and do you think it's still Gardy favored, or do you think it is Unfavor
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh, it's definitely un favored now. A hundred percent. Uh, because I think last format, the reason it was favored is'cause like they would normally get to like three prizes, like before you took a knockout, sometimes four. And then from there you just go like, knockout, knockout, knock, knockout, like with like two Arceus clowns and something like, and it's really hard for'em to like get boss, uh, guard EX ride shoe. Um, but now it's like if they go first, like they're for sure getting turned to iron hands. So then it's like if you do mirage step, like they're gonna be at two prizes before you even get to like take one. Um, so it just puts so much pressure on your board. Um, and like your deck just isn't fast enough to keep up. Like I think you saw like in one of my, the game I won in top four, it's like I actually went all in like zero cards in my hand to like sation, like on my second or third turn.'cause I was like, I cannot let this like deck like just start iron enhancing me, like swinging the prize trade too much. So it just puts you on a clock. So like, I think going like before you would go second against Mira, you have to go first now.'cause like, uh, like if they turn one iron hands, okay, whatever, they hit the nuts. But like getting a mirage step when they're still at five makes the matchup similar to the last format where it's like, okay, they're gonna be at three before you get to attack. And then from that spot, I actually do think you're favored. Um, but the reason I say it's unfavor now is'cause when they go first, they're almost always getting turned to iron hands. Um, so yeah, it's not like a matchup. I'm super comfortable playing against then a Neil's build, which Jeremy did beat his list, like actually can like turn one iron hands, like more than half the games. So that build, I think for sure, like destroys Gardevoir.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. So you kinda have to look at them separate in some ways. I agree. Like non Neil's list, you definitely go first. Um, and like it's the threat of turn one iron or like turn one iron hands or two turn, two iron hands going first. Um, which you do need to be worried about. And like that puts you on a clock. Um, like if you can co with an Arceus, Gardevoir, you're like often safe. Um, one of the things that's like really in your favor is like the iron. He requires so many energies that like, it becomes hard for them to ride you, your guard, EX. Um, and so like I. Uh, they're just getting like their two prize turn earlier than they would in the past. Um, so as long as you can like, set up and like, uh, like swing, swing, swing to go 2, 2, 2, like you're probably fine. Um, but, but that early pressure can be dangerous and like, you kind of need to be ready to like, if they get like iron hands before you even step, you need to like pick a, pick a game plan if they have squawk and you can go like the counter catcher, uh, fluffy scream, tail route, or like, you need to just like figure something else out or like, you're just gonna get blown off the board, um, against a nail stick. You might actually need to go second. I'm not sure I was, I was choosing to go first. Um, but a Neil was choosing to go second. Um,'cause I guess it's one of those like Giratina things where it's like as gardy, like there's no re like you're not attacking everyone. Like there's no like, reason, like you get a supporter, which is like kind of nice, but like, you just wanna find like an extra r anyway so that you can rouse up the next turn. Um. But Anil was saying that it like, makes it like really awkward. Um,'cause like, you wanna be like squawking and like, it kind of messes up like the sequencing with like the squawk and the supporter to go like first that Mariah on deck. Um, so maybe it's, maybe it's correct to go second against'em. I, I don't really know. Um, I just, I, it feels to me like if you choose to go second, you're just gonna get iron hands on, on turn two, um, and then you're like going to lose for sure. Um, so yeah, I, I would probably choose first, but maybe that's wrong.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I, I choose first for sure.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. And another thing that's kinda interesting too, like, like we talk about Guardian a lot is like, it's, it's a very challenging deck to play and it is. Um, but in that matchup specifically, like it actually ends up being a lot of the pressure on the ride on player'cause they're like playing very uptempo with like the iron hands. Um, but they actually need to play super defensively, um, because like, like. Now with like Squawk, like the fluffy is a huge liability and they like need to like put themself in a position where like if you get like, um, like a guard, EX like swinging into them like that, they don't just like lose into that because like iron hands is like actually kind of bad if you just hit punch it with a guard, EX and then scream tail the next turn in combination with boss something. So like from the Guardi side, like the matchup kind of plays itself. Like if there's a fluffy, like you're going to counter catch a scrim tail at some point. If there's an iron hands, you are going to kill it as fast as you possibly can. Um, but from the ride on side, you're worried about like 10 different like avenues that gardy could take to like make things interesting.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:And if you want to hear more about that matchup from the Ride-on side, I'm sure Kieran and Ane are going to be covering it on their podcast episode this week. Uh, the Shift Gear podcast, a Neil has a great podcast voice as I told him. Um, so I'm excited, uh, for, for that episode this week. Did he finish on the top?
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:he finished 13th. He actually had 34 match points. He just had bad resistance. So he didn't get a chance to bubble in
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:thank God.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. So very, very awesome weekend for, uh, for, for you two and very awesome weekend for the Shift Gear podcast. That's pretty sweet.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:cra like it's actually, uh, I guess we didn't mention this, but Jeremy and I played against each other and we stayed in the same hotel room, played in the same deck, which is crazy.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were so hyped. Uh, our, our group chat was going crazy. It's, it's also really interesting. Uh, you guys didn't play, you guys had the same record for a lot of the tournament, um, and didn't play each other once in Swiss, but, so then of course you guys had to play in top cut
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yep.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Um,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:I.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:cool. All right. Well, yeah, we've been going for a while. Um, is there anything Brent, Liam, you guys wanted to,
Track 1:All, all right. I, I think the, the question that we gotta ask, I think it's the responsibility of the pod to ask, uh, let, let's go around the horn. You guys What, what wins Poland?
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Poland.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Hmm.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Uh,
Track 1:Yeah. I mean, there's another regional, this coming weekend, three days from
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. News to me,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:uh,
Track 1:Uh, there's another regional in three days. What do people do?
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:I mean, I actually would, I'm gonna pick guard Devar to win just because I think it's gonna be the biggest deck in the field. And I think a lot of like good players play guard devar. So like, I just think by sheer numbers it has the highest chance to win. But I think my backup, if Gardevoir doesn't win, I'm actually gonna pick my ride on to go again.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Before we keep going, I just, I had the regional schedule up'cause I was looking at the US ones for anyway. Uh, but there is one in Poland, but there is also one in Australia this weekend too. Um, so
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:guard is one of that one
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, I think that seems like AS that seems like a safe call there. Okay, so Karen's going, Gardy me ride on Jeremy. What you got?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Um, I'll guess m feels like the safe choice these days. I mean, he, here's the thing I like, if you're going to a tournament, I think you, I don't know how you don't sleep up Gardy or something that's like designed to beat Guardian, like an ante valiant or, uh, like a Neils ride-on list. Um, but like, I don't, yeah, I don't know how you pick like z or Mio or ow when, when you could be playing Guardi. Um, though though I will say I think the ante valiant deck is a little overhyped on Twitter and stuff right now. Um, it's a good deck. It's legit. Um, but like, it's not game breaking. Um, I think people overrate like the, like the difference between like one or two matches and like, uh, like top eight of a tournament or like, even like the last two rounds of Swiss that like determine like what's in top eight versus 16 versus 32. Um. And so I, I, I wouldn't make as much of that result as people, as people are though it is legit back in. This did prove that.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Cool.
Track 1:Liam. Mike, what do you guys think?
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:I'm gonna say Sander wins the event.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Oh, I didn't
Track 1:Yeah.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:yeah, that's right. Actually,
Track 1:Oh, that's a great
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Uh, I, I'll take, I'll take Sander to top eight minus 500,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:minus 500.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:don't know if he can win Yeah, no. He'll be there, but I don't, I don't know how much he's banking on there, how it's designed for time control, but
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, so I'm, I'm going with Sander with the control. I don't think Sander will play just like the standard quad Snorlax
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:No,
Track 1:he's definitely not playing Block lax. He is more likely to show up with Zoro Box than,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:is gonna play vanilla, watch, like vanilla with all the other stuff.
Track 1:Yeah.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yep.
Track 1:Liam, who you got?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:can do.
squadcaster-4acc_1_11-21-2023_170437:yeah, I'll say my ride on. Um, yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:a, a ride on Main now
squadcaster-4acc_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah.
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah. I, I think the other question I should ask since, since you guys are, are, uh, basically all on a group chat together 24 7. Um, how annoying is Liam on Discord, guys?
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Oh, it depends.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:bad.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:it depends if he's going off about something like that I know is bad. but
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:you know, some top players, top five lists,
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:his top five list are a little
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:line. Yeah.
Track 1:All right. All right. That's, I feel like as a parent, I, that these are the
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. But, but overall, Liam is a pleasure to have in the Discord group to use some teacher talk
Track 1:Oh, my word.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah.
Track 1:Oh, my guys, guys, I expect, I expect Mike to lie to me, but I didn't expect this
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:I, I didn't, I didn't lie. I didn't say anything
Track 1:All right. Um, I think that's, uh, that's good enough for me.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah, that's great. That's great. Uh, seriously, check out, uh, Karen's YouTube and the, uh, the Shift Gear podcast. They are great watches. Jeremy, you don't do anything, so I can't shout you out
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Literally nothing. I don't even tweet
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Yeah. He retweets all my
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:you're, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're, you're, you're, you just changed your Twitter name so it doesn't look like a Russian bot. Um,
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:I got a profile picture too now that
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Oh, did you?
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:played Onstream this decade. Yeah.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Okay. Nice. Um, cool. All right. Thank you guys so much for coming. We
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:of course. A lot of fun.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Yeah. Thanks for having us. This was good.
Track 1:Alright. The John Pauls are our outro. That's the pod guys.
squadcaster-d8i5_1_11-21-2023_170437:Nice.
squadcaster-iif9_1_11-21-2023_170438:Nice. This was fun.
mike_1_11-21-2023_170437:Cool.