Ehh.
Cam:Huh? No, I'm here, I'm listening, I was just doing my laundry.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Okay, okay, yeah, that's I think we were all waiting for you to appear on screen. And I'm
Cam:Oh, sorry.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:is insane, but we should go. Ha ha
Cam:no, no, no, go ahead, go ahead, I'm also
Mike:Cam doing his laundry is staying in the cold open, for sure.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Exactly, exactly. All right, all right, welcome to the Trash Lane! Attendance is like, 166%! We're all here because it's gonna be the best podcast episode in the history of podcasts.
Kaden:whoop!
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:the only podcast about the Pokemon Trading Card Game The Trashlanch, we got Kayden, we got Cam, we got Mike, we got me, most importantly, we got Liam! The winner of the Orlando regionals, the largest regional in regional history, let's go! Dragonshield is our sponsor, we appreciate them very much because they give us the sleeves that makes Liam tweet, and when Liam starts tweeting, he starts yapping, and when Liam starts yapping, crazy things happen. It's crazy, people.
Kaden:Now I have to ask you Liam, did you get any, any deck penalties? This, at Orlando, off of sleeves? got a warning?
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:AHHHHH NOOOOO! Well, that's, so, I think the related question is did you put new sleeves on the deck? And when did you do that for this tournament?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:put new sleeves on the deck, and I put them on Friday night. But the way I've started handling my cards, I think, is somewhat prone to creating the deck penalty that I got, which was that it was like one of those fingernail markings on the back of the card. I, like, yeah, I somewhat, I grabbed the top of the card, or I pinched the top and the bottom of the card with my, like, middle finger and my thumb, and then I, like, pushed down with the index finger, and, like, depending on the angle, you can hit it with your
Kaden:Oh, as you're, as you're sleeving? You don't, you don't do the open up the sleeve, or?
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:as he's, I assume this is
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:No, as as I'm, as I'm playing the card. No, no. Like, as I like drop the card kind of sometimes.
Mike:Gotcha.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:or like, you know, like when I'm, when I'm spreading cards out, like in the deck or the hand, I like, it from the sides. And I think the, the Dragon Shield dual mats are like a little bit more prone to that than the mats.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Gotcha. Alright, I think the plan for today is, is hold off on hearing about Cam's run and just deep dive on Liam's run. Then, and then see what we can get through in the course of like the next 57 minutes or so. Does that sound like a reasonable plan, guys?
Kaden:Sounds fantastic.
Mike:I saw Brent, you had written a bunch of questions, I wrote a couple questions down as well, so we'll kind of, I'll kind of just throw mine in I think when they seem appropriate.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Sounds, sounds good. So Liam, the first question I, I had was that I, I, I saw you tweeting back and forth where there was a moment where you were like, I'm off the cam 60. What almost
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:towards 60.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Or you, off the toward 60. Like you were like, Oh no, I, I, I'm a bad person. And then you were like, nevermind, nevermind, I'm a good person.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, I was considering playing a Bonds Regio Ecky Zard he day tuned with. And I ended up playing One card off of Torch 60, which I wasn't super confident about, but I, I like, miraculously didn't get punished at all. Everybody else who made the same change as me got giga punished so I, I, I opted to play a second Charmeleon and cut the Jirachi. Rowan Stavenow and Jake Gearheart, the two other people who made that change with me they both hit a bunch of loss boxes and lost to them. I didn't hit a single loss box the entire tournament.
Kaden:How good was the second Chermeleon?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:It was pretty good. It just makes the deck flow a little better. It has a lot of synergy with the tarot, it's good against Devo.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:And I assume if you never bump into Lostbox, like, that's another bad starter that you never start, and, like, you set up more
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah, exactly. The Jirachi's terrible.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:like, it's just absolute dubs. Would you do it again, or would you assume you would be punished in the future?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I'd assume I'd be punished. I think, I think those matchups are actually, like, so terrible without Jirachi. Like, Jirachi basically completely swings the matchup, because basically have to go, like, three back to back to back two price KOs, or they get, know, out traded. Whereas, with the Sableye, like, they can basically just take, like, off turns in the middle, where all they need is, like, Nest Ball energy, and they can keep pace.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:So then, I guess that begs the question, why'd you make the change?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:we thought it was better than it was. This was a change, like, late Friday, we thought the match was fine. We didn't test against Turbo Lost, we were just testing against Lost Sina, It's definitely better against Lost Tina. You
Mike:Because it's like harder for them to cha it's harder for them to chain the Sableyes. Yeah,
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:the Sableye, and they get to it slower. So, like, you aren't able to you're able to better customize your board, I guess. Let's
Mike:Was the, was the, so I know a large reason why you wanted to play second Charmeleon is against Devo in the mirror. Did, did you play against mirrors with Devo and it came up to have the extra Charmeleon?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yeah, I don't know if, like, you can get by without it, because you only ever need one Charmeleon in play, at like a single point, to play around Devo, even if it's under the Zard, or not. But, sometimes, you know, I prize the Charmeleon, and it just made it easier to draw into.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Good times. Any more questions about his list, guys?
Kaden:I have, I've got one, I've got one. Which is sort of, you know looking forward, is this sort of strategy of kind of just taking a well proven list and running with it if it's, if it's testing really well, is this something you're going to carry forward?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:If it's towards Lists, it's good. Yeah, I, like, it's an amazing strategy. It's amazing.
Kaden:sure.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yeah, like, it's very rare for Lists to become bad the tournament after they win. Like,
Kaden:Yeah.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:so,
Mike:And especially when it's only one week in between. The one question that I had is probably the question that a lot of people had, and probably besides dropping the Jirachi, the card most likely to be changed from TOR's list is the Team Yelchir. So, talk to us about Team Yelchir. What'd you what'd
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah, the fact that that didn't get cut, and the direction it didn't get cut, and, and like, people still don't really know what the Elchir's for is, is a miracle.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I know Mike knows. I reached out to Tor and asked him about this. He says it's enough versus Control, and I, I think it is. I played the matchup once or twice on Friday and It's, it's very good for, for maintaining pressure and recycling bosses. You're able to hit their draw engine when you have so much gusts. It's also, I think, going forward, especially important because of Guardi. The gusts basically make all the difference in that matchup. I think it, it makes the matchup, like, probably heavily favored, I think, like, 60 40, 70 30. Because you just hit turn 2 Prime Catcher and then boss KO every single turn and, like, They're playing the heavy Arven engines, so they don't have draw when you're, when you're taking out their Curlias. It's hard for them to keep Curlias in play without level ball. It's, yeah, I mean, it's just brutal for them. So it fixes a lot of matchups. It helps with the flow of the deck. Like, it's not as terrible as Jirachi, because like, volume is good in really any matchup, and it's like a little bit more easily burnable, because the deck is somewhat tight on bench space. And So yeah, it's like a solid card. It helps in a few matchups concretely. It also helps in the mirror a little bit. Like the volume is good in that matchup. And it's just a solid card. I'd continue playing it for sure.
Mike:How many times did you play it throughout the tournament?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Probably like, I know at least day two is the, is what I remember the best. I, here. Yeah, I think I played it like four games in day two.
Mike:Okay.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:don't think I played it much day one.
Mike:Okay,
Cam:I think I've walked by, and you played it at least twice, didn't they, one? Against the control where you, You dragged the game out 30 minutes by never dying. You used it there too.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yes, yes, I did. It's good in that situation as well.
Kaden:I have a question. Why Yelch here over Palpat?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:because it can't be Ariad or Fortune Sisters. It's also a little bit more volume, and I don't think the downside of it being supporter is actually that noticeable. The deck has like a lot of it's pretty easy to identify like the free turn that you, where you need to use the L chair. And the deck
Mike:what Aery does?
Kaden:I just, I just googled it. Card seems broken.
Mike:Yep, good card.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah, so if you're wondering how two Control Decks top eight EUIC you're like, oh, this, they, they gave us some new cards that are good. All
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, that card is
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:so. As, as Liam's father, I thought one thing that we should, we should talk about before we really like, talk about round by round and, and all that stuff is what Liam ate on Sunday. So, a thing that did not make the Twitter is, Cam texted the gang of us a picture of Liam's diet on Sunday morning, and he had like three blueberries for breakfast after going 9 0. And, like, I recognize this is part of the transition from being a, a Junior or Senior, where you have a parent doting on you and providing you food, to like a situation where you have to feed yourself. What did you eat, Liam? What is the, what is the meals of champions that fuel such success?
Cam:Can I, can I jump in here? Because this was also Friday night. I'm in bed already. That's how old I am. And Liam comes into the room with dinner, and he's talking about how he's He's, you know, an adult now, a man, if you say, and he's eating his chicken nuggets with nerds rope dinner right before day one, and I just had to put him in check and I was like man, can you like, at least eat like an adult? But that did not happen.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, like, like, I feel like, you know, I, like, I used to text my kids all the time, like ESPN did this article on how, like, chess masters were on, like, fitness and diet programs to, like, put themselves in peak gameplay condition and stuff, like, I know Nabil circulated that article, too, around a little bit, like Liam hasn't bought in yet.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Dude, I, yeah, man, McDonald's is really easy there was a McDonald's nearby, I got McDonald's. was a logical decision
Kaden:still vividly remember when you were at our house, Liam, and you walked, like, you decided to walk, like, 30 minutes to the nearest 7 Eleven to buy Nerds. Because you were, you were sorely disappointed by the lack of high, high sugar candy in our household.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah,
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:love nerds gummy clusters, they're amazing. Thanks. Bye.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:that, I mean, they are amazing, I won't, I won't lie, the
Kaden:So, you heard it here, you heard it here first, folks. If you want to win a regionals, there is one tried and true formula. It's just lots of Nerds Gummy Clusters. Pffft.
Cam:blueberries.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah. Alright, alright, so. We can do a little bit of the like, round by round grinding, but I had a couple of specific questions I wanted to ask you about the finals where they finally streamed you, because that was an incredibly entertaining game. It had, it had all the drama and highs and lows that I think the people were looking for, but here, so here's my question. What went through your mind when you searched for the Bibarel?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I really wasn't sweating it, I know everybody, like, when you're watching it from the Twitch chat or whatever, like, Not as a player, you're, you're like, oh my god, look at the, look at the position, there's around a 2 percent chance he topdecks Prime Catcher here, he's absolutely cooked. But, like, I was just feeling in the moment, like, I was like, nah, I'm topdecking here. I, I, I know I'm topdecking, like, I, I, I could feel it, like, it was one of those times that I would topdeck, it wasn't a, like, oh, dude, he gets burned by the misplay, it, it, it, it didn't have those vibes, I, I could feel that I was topdecking. It was, like, in the moment I could tell I was gonna be fine.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:All. Alright. So did your feelings change or, or was there any when you, when you drew the prime catcher?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:No, I mean, it just, it just confirmed my, my suspicions, my read on the position. I could feel there was something good on top. Give me that. Boom, Primecatcher. Rip the Barrel. Vacuum, Turo.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah. That's, that's obviously, yeah. My, my next question was a, any particular mojo when you, when you picked the birol off the prizes?
Cam:he just knew.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:He just said
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I wasn't expecting that one, bro. I was like, oh damn, this guy just got it.
Kaden:Yeah.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:That's
Mike:I mean, you did draw it, you did draw it as like the third prize, right? So
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, right, I was halfway through it.
Mike:Yeah, it's like a 50 50 to draw it by then. So not, not too ridiculous.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:th 30% chance. 33% chance made three prizes left. Right,
Kaden:Off of that prize, but 50 percent off. Having drawn at some point in the game.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:right, right.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:was a 25 percent chance off.
Mike:yeah
Kaden:Liam, I have a question. Had you recognized that your Bibarel was prized earlier, I assume you would have just played the Lumineon?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:No, I would have just played the boss and held the Luminium.
Kaden:Okay. Okay.
Mike:yeah. Seems reasonable. So that was all Game 2. I actually had some ques Oh, any other
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Oh, yeah. No, no. So, yeah, so the last thing about came to is. Obviously, Jake makes a misplay by flashing the boss,
Mike:Hmm.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:realizing that you had not attacked, you had done a thing. Like, even though he knew, his brain just short circuited for a second. you have a reaction when he flashes the boss?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I already know I had to play the tarot I was gonna play the tarot regardless. It was, yeah.
Mike:Yeah, the chat was, chat Twitch chat was pretty funny because they're like, oh such a huge misplay blah blah, and I'm like, it doesn't change the gameplay at all. Like, Liam's obviously playing the Turo
Kaden:Well, the only thing was he promoted his powered up Roaring Moon, which, like, minorly matters.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:But he had the energy raw in
Kaden:yeah, yeah.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:and like, he dug his entire deck. Yeah, that's
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:there's some trade off between, like, you know, playing the I. O. N. O. and trying to see if you can, you know, limit his outs to boss energy or something, versus
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I, well, I had the Roxanne, which, like, I don't think you can ever play Iono there because the deck is so thinned, but I had the Roxanne that's why I held it before the Pimberrel instead of Ultra Balling, because it was a solid option, but the Turt was just better, I think. I was honestly shocked he got to 320. I know
Mike:yeah, yeah.
Cam:also think that him putting down the capsule like potentially lost him the game. This is something that my group has talked about, where buying yourself a turn is kind of fake because if they have found the vacuum, they just gain the turn right back, which Liam did at the end, and he was one short, which it was vacuumed, so. have had 330 potentially.
Mike:that's true. So for game one, I want to talk about the, just the first couple turns, because they were really interesting on both sides. So you went first, actually, and before, actually, before we even start, did you win the coin flip or did Jake win the coin flip game one?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Jake won the coin
Mike:Okay, and he chose to go second.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah.
Mike:would you have chosen to go second if you won?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I would have, yeah. I
Mike:and
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yeah, in our testing before EUIC, we decided that going first was best with Ancient Box when I was testing with Vinny, because the Pidget Lists were playing They weren't playing Kappa, but The Tord build is basically completely built to go second. You go second pretty much every matchup. I'd say every matchup, you go second. The deck literally only works when you go second. And so, yeah, I'd be opting second for sure. Opting second, I think, is correct for Jake.
Mike:cool. That actually answered another question I was gonna ask later, which is, did you choose to go first or second? So it sounds like always second. Cool. Okay, so, you end up going first. You actually, you have a pretty solid start. You get the Poffin, you get the Rotom down and Jake starts Fluttermane. Jake can actually, I don't, you might not know this unless you watched it back, but he actually could have gotten a turn one KO on your Jarmander. He had Sada two, he Pokestopped two energies away, so he had Sada to go to the Fluttermane in the active to retreat and to power up the Roaring Moon. So he could have taken the turn one KO, but he opts to play Explorers sets up Greninja, kind of like, takes a little bit slower route to try and set up his board, and just passes with the Flutter in the active. Then you make an interesting play, Which may or may not be intentional, where you retreat your Charmander to Rotom, and then boss the Radiant Greninja up, so you can still Rotom. So, first question, you remember Rotom under Fluttermane before or after you, well, yeah, before you bossed, or did you boss just because? Right,
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:both or well, like, okay, so I, I knew I had to boss going into the turn going into the rotor because I didn't, I didn't have the the Arvin off of
Mike:yeah, you had no Zard,
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:knew I was gonna road him again, and yeah, I, I knew I had to boss. Then after, after I went through the turn and I retreat into the roto, I forgot what I had to do, but I, I knew I was missing something, so I just, I just kind of sat there for like 10 seconds and. Then I was like, oh dude, I, I can't even, it's instant charge here. I have to boss the, so yeah. And then Boston Ninja.
Mike:Which I think was fine. Was the thought of going into the Rotom that it was unlikely that he could take a KO there?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yes. Yeah, it's, it's, it's the best target because you're, you're good at shoving the radR if they're on even prizes. And so keeping, keeping them on even is, is actually a very good thing for the deck. And yeah, I thought it's unlikely to hit a ko, even if there is a ko. I'm not even doing that bad because I get, I own it. A four return ko. And, yeah, I thought my position would be fine after that.
Mike:And it turns his countercatchers off basically for the rest of the game as well, which is pretty cool. And we know, and you know at that point, like, he probably only plays the one boss. So, it seems reasonable even if he does get the KO. Okay, so, then Jake goes and opts not to KO the Rotom. And just retreats back into the Fluttermane, presumably to have you KO Fluttermane just to get the extra Ancient cards in the discard pile. And then you do get the KO. You do take the KO on the Fluttermane. Was there any consideration there to not KO the Fluttermane? Or are you just like, eh, at this point we just gotta
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:no, I, yeah, I think the aggressions work more. Yeah, I think. I mean, me, yeah, yeah, I, no, it's just always the aggressive route.
Mike:Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and we saw, basically, and then the game kind of progressed from there, where you traded hits back and forth, but he just kind of ran out of steam between your Ionos and whatnot. He, he tried, he like, he tried to KO your Vibarol, he KO'd your Pidgeot at some point, but you were still able to, like, chain enough disruption that he whiffed like an attack, I think, at some point, and just scooped. If I remember right.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, and I think he was going to get his only moon on board KO'd without
Mike:Right. Yeah, back
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:his own KO. And I'm like, yeah, I just fall massively behind.
Mike:Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, it was just a really interesting set of turns to start that game from both of you that I thought was cool
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, I, I think I, he obviously had like, this, like, really slow strategy prepared. I think he went for both games and I'm, I'm not sure if it's viability, but probably worth exploring.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Alright, you want to talk to us about your top 4 and top 8 games? Like, I got the impression, so, Josh posted his results against Zard, and he did very well against Zard, generally speaking, except when he played you and Fabrizio didn't post his matchups, but I feel like I mean chin pal's probably favored. I think he thought he was favored. And, and like I got the impression that like one of the reasons they didn't stream your matches is because they were just assuming you were gonna lose really fast because you were unfavor in, in these matchups or something. And yet, and yet here we are,
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I mean it's, it's pretty rare for people to get streamed. There's not a lot of stream matches, but
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:you know, in top four you had a 50% chance In top eight you had a 25% chance.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah. Solid odds, but it's
Cam:No, I think in top 4 it's actually 0 percent chance for Liam because they streamed the, the other
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah, one side of the bracket, right? The whole way? Mm hmm. Yeah. No, I think the Chen Pao matchup's actually pretty good. I went 4 0 against Fabrizio in games this weekend. I lost 2 0 to Ragan, but I, yeah, I had some pretty subpar starts against Ragan. Game one, I opened Lumineon Pass. Game two, I got turned to Keshar Cologne. Yeah, And I think if those don't happen, you hit your turn to attack, you're actually in, like, a very good position. So yeah, I think the Chen Pao matchup's fine. I 2 0 for Brizio. He didn't draw that bad. I think he actually double priced his Babarrels in game 2. But he ripped it pretty quickly, and I didn't make the read that turn. I should have. But and I opted not to Iona because his hand before was bad. But then he went bibb bibb on, you know, like, turn three. And, know, that was that. But I, yeah, I think the matchup's pretty good. You, like, you always get the first prize. Because if they, as long as they're not hitting turn two Ketcher Cologne or turn two Hands, are, taking the first prize is pretty bad into the Defiance band. So, so wait, once you take the first prize, you go to five, they're at six, they return KO, they go to four, And then you get to shove the Radzard and take a KO, and this really fixes your prize map. Go to three, they're at four, and now, like, it's pretty awkward for them to continue taking prizes. Like, they, they just, they just have to hit a lot. It's, of course, doable, but it, they have to hit a lot, and they lose their, like, one prize trick of, like, basically clearing the board of two prizers and trying to go one for one with the Radzard because you're already on three. you're still winning in two turns anyway. So they basically just, they have to hit like Gust in a way to two prize KO, like back to back turns. which can be pretty hard. You're like Iono, Countercatcher, Barbaro, like, because you're on odd, that's like something you can do for for free if they, I don't know, like Chempak KO something. It's, yeah, I think it's a pretty good matchup. it's hard for them to hit everything.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:So, how about the rest of the tournament? I don't know how much you want to go round by round versus just talking about notable matchups, but obviously you started out 9 0 on the first day, only undefeated at the end of day one. Day two was tougher.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, day one, I hit hit six Zards, two Lugias, and a Futurehance. the Lugias, their deck didn't work because it's Lugia, so I beat them. The Zards, all of them cut the mirror text, they cut the Turos, they cut the Prime Catcher, they cut the the Barrel in some form or another, and so I had more stuff for the mirror, and then they lost.
Mike:So,
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:the other thing in, sorry?
Mike:Think that you found a lot of success in the Charizard Mirror? Are there any, like, quick tips to to explain?
Cam:you played it at the Charizard mirror a lot, right?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:hmm?
Cam:You play the mirror a lot too, I'm pretty
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah, I had 6 in day 1 and 3 in day 2, so I went, I had, I had 9 mirrors and I went, I think, 8 0 1. It's pretty good. I think, nah, I mean, the Charizard mirror, I've seen a lot of people asking questions about it on Twitter. It's, it's a really, really weird matchup. I don't, I don't really know what I'm doing in it. I like, you kind of just keep hitting. And I found it, it just worked out, like, I just keep attacking, and then whenever they attack, I play Turo, so their attacks didn't work. And my attacks didn't, I just kept attacking, and eventually I won. Yeah the funny thing for the mirror that we were trying to employ, Jake and I talked about this, was that we thought the matchup was a 1 0 matchup, because we're playing two Turo and Yelch here. You can, you can buy a ton of turns if you don't take prizes in game two after you win game one. They're not going to be able to one hit anything, you basically just play Turo for like five turns in a row while using quick search. This buys, you know, a ton of time, and it's like game one already takes a long time because you You're naturally playing Turos, even in this, like, you know, when you're playing for the win. So, you're playing Turos, you're using Pigea, you're using Iono, you're using Pibero, all this stuff. Like, Game 1, we thought it was going to take like 30 35 minutes, and then you're going to be able to pretty easily draw Game 2.
Mike:Is that what happened, or not so much?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:it happened a lot of game in Day 1, because a lot of people, I don't think, realized it was a 1 0 matchup. So, like, you know, the player that I drew out a 30 minute Game 2 against, who was playing Bibzarb, He basically used Skwobet and Bibarel every single turn instead of just continuously, like, draw attack, draw attack, draw attack. Yeah, so, like, that. They didn't really know what was happening, they played a little bit slow, and yeah, so they got one of the two.
Cam:That was a masterclass, I watched that, that was
Mike:Nice.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:game day two, though, I think it doesn't work against good players. I think Rowan Stave and I was actually, like, one of the fastest players right now. He obviously, and notoriously, like, basically didn't tie with Gardevoir all of last season. Which is just insane. And he didn't 1 0 people either. He was, like, finishing three games with Gardevoir. He's super fast. I, I tried to 1 0 him. It didn't work. But I 2 0'd him, so, you know, it did, that did work. I tried to 1 0 Celios, because we played, like, a 30 minute Game 1. That didn't work. We tied.
Cam:You were like two minutes off, right? Something like that.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yeah.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:So was, was Rowan playing same 60 as you?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:No. He cut the Yelch here for a boss. And, some other champions. I think that was it, though.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:And the
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:He was also playing the other, he was also playing the other Charmeleon, which is a 70 instead of the Flare Veil. Didn't really make a difference, though. I don't play D. Va. And the Yelch here is like, it's like okay in the mirror. The third boss is, eh, I don't know, I might be slightly better, but it's not, it's not a huge difference, it's, it's hard to Like, you run out of energy when you want to play tarot that much and, like, actually attack, so. Yeah, like, the volume beyond two tarot doesn't really matter that much.
Mike:How big is Bibarel in Mirror?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:it's huge. There's, you get to a lot of 2 2 stalemates and a lot of people, when they see these 2 2 stalemates, they think, like, oh, Max Belt would be really good and that's why people play the Max Belt, but What Bibzard's able to do, is when you get to 2 2, you basically clean your board of two prizers, you go Babarrel, Radzard, take a prize, and you're chilling for next turn. And they can't have like the Pidgeot down or anything, or else you just win right there, so their draw is completely gone. You go like Roxanne, take a 1 prizer, use Babarrel, fill your hand, like, you're basically just chilling, and their board is completely gone.
Mike:In Mirror, how often are, how often are you slash how often is it the right play to go after the Pidgeot?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I mean, yeah, it's usually good, I think. Alright, I'll go through, like, the the common map, which is, I think, so, somebody takes the first prize, the player going first if they draw well, or the, the player going second under average draws, if both players are playing towards less they take the first prize, the other player chips the Zard, usually or they take two prizes and hit, like, the Rotom, but it doesn't really matter because Then the player who has the damaged Zard or lost two prizes, they GusKO a one prizer, either Charmeleon or Bibarel. If you go to three prizes you will lose. They will Defiance Ban, GusKO the Pidgeot. So you, you know, you want, you want to stay at, or like, that's why you don't chip the Zard. And chipping the Zard is fine, as long as you don't go to three the following turn. If you go to three, that's usually a losing position because you lose the Pidgeot, and then you can't even return KO because if you return KO with your Zard and Defiance Ban, You get return KO because you go to 1. So, you get 1 hit. So going to 3 is like, usually pretty bad. Yeah, back to the main line, I guess. You go, so you chip the Zard, and yeah, the player goes to 4, but they have a damaged Zard. You have 5, and then you go to 4, so it's 4 4, and they have a damaged Zard, so you're up a turn. That's why it's good to take the first prize. You're able to hit their board, and you go up a turn. Like, you basically do get the turn back. Even though, like, taking first prize is, like, somewhat bad in a Zard mirror, I think, for some reason. That was, like, the Notion last format, I think. But you go to 4 4 and you're up a turn, and then like, it's basically just whoever has the damaged Zard at that point. Or whoever can get the most damage on board. Like, what you want to be doing is setting up the Pigea to die, setting up the Zard to die, and, like, if you have a damaged Zard when you go to 2, You're threatening to win the game next turn, right? Like, if there's a damage zard on board. And so, the Turros are really, really big there, because you want to keep damage off of your board while setting up damage on their board, and that's what the Turros allow. And, yeah, I mean, that's basically it. And then it's just navigating, like, these 2 2 situations, where everybody gets all their two browsers off the board when somebody goes to two, and the Barrel is, like, the tiebreaker there. You know, whoever's setup is kind of stronger.
Mike:Did you get a like a Turo plus Collapse turn at any point? Yeah.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yeah, I mean, It happens a lot, because the draw engine is so strong, and the pothins make it really easy to fill the bench, and like, yeah. Yeah.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Or at least one important Guardy game, and Control, right?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, Garde is like, it's a good matchup if you play the Yelch here. Yeah. I talked about it earlier. So Yeah, exactly, that's I lost to Gardi round 10. Yeah, I chucked. I threw away the Yelch, I turned 1, and then I got cooked by the Mimikyu. I didn't make the same mistake in top 4, though.
Mike:And that's like the only reason, right, for the, the Yelch here is so big, is just to go around Mimikyu basically infinite times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah. And that was basically my tournament. I just used SARD. Did the thing. We already know it's a good deck. Did good deck things.
Mike:Losses, your two losses were just Regan and Josh, right?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah.
Mike:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Indie?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Nope. People who do that are not very smart. Stay flexible.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, I recognize, this is, there's a longer break, it's not gonna be as new of a format, like, Do you think, do you think things will happen? Is there gonna shakeup? Cam's nodding.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I don't know, but I, like, I don't see a point to commit yet yeah, like, unfortunately,
Kaden:like searching for something better than this?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yes, that's what I will be doing in the next few weeks,
Kaden:Yeah.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I was going to say that, unfortunately, Tord does not have an event, unless he's doing the Sao Paulo Forever this week. He does not have an event before Indie. He cannot copy his list.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Tough, tough.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:you know, we'll figure it
Cam:feel like Torch should just give you his list after that appearance, man. Like, you could just double
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah,
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:You, you were definitely helping toward, toward farm clout. That, that all, all week there, right?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I
Mike:quote tweet.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Oh. So Lee, the other question I was supposed to ask you about those games is although it sounds like you felt like you were confident, you would never be punished, do you feel like you should be more disciplined about checking prizes after the, the finals?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:And I'm out. Bye. That was like, you know, that was obviously bad, but I, I check my prizes. I, I don't check the full 60, and I think that, I think the people who check the full 60 are weird, because like, they take too long. They just take too long, I think.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:I, I guess que I guess the real question I'm asking is would you start taking notes?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:No, absolutely not. The notebook is the worst thing in the world, like, I, I think it's basically, it is as close as you can get, to like, basically just putting the deck down during a deck search, and staring your opponent in the face, and being like, I'm not gonna make an action. I'm up a game. Like, like, you know, when you're like, you know, I'm gonna actually stop this deck for search for a second. I'm gonna write in my notebook. Like, you could be doodling, bro. Like, like, it just, it just doesn't matter. It's I think that's something, it's something, if you're doing it, you should do it on your opponent's turn. Like, taking a two minute deck search to, you know, scribble in your notebook for funsies is It's insane work. Like, yeah, it just is insane work. I don't, I don't know why people feel so entitled to being able to take extra time on a deck search because, like, they want to check stuff. Like, I think it's, it's on the players to make sure that they're completing actions in a timely manner, and I don't, I don't know why you would get, you get extra time for, for price checking. Like, it's, it's an okay custom. It of course makes sense, but it's, I don't know. People stretch it all the time, and it's disgusting to watch.
Kaden:Aren't you not technically allowed to write in a notebook during a deck search? I feel like I remember hearing that somewhere. Obviously it's not generally enforced, but.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, I have no clue. That would make sense, because putting your deck down during a deck search so you can do other stuff is like the craziest thing in the world. But, you know, that's what it is.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:I like the commitment to play fast.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, I
Cam:As he 1 0'd a bunch of Charizards.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I did, I did, but I You know, I think, I think, I don't think there's anything wrong with 1 0 ing people it's, it's like recognizing the, the reality of the situation. It's like, I think it's, it's pretty equivalent to not benching a 1 prizer in Sudden Death, even though your deck is supposed to. Like, if you recognize that there's 5 minutes left on the clock, passing in a Charizard Mirror is not like, you know, some heinous crime. It's, it's okay to recognize that. And like. You know, stretching it a little further, there's 10 minutes left on the clock. I'm still gonna pass because I played two Turo here. It doesn't become a heinous crime. Like, as much as you want to stretch it, as long as you're keeping your pace of play up, I think, and you're avoiding double shuffling, like I think it's fine. Like, choosing actions that play the clock, I don't think is a, you know, some heinous crime. It's just recognizing the situation.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Draw passing to get to the end of the game faster is definitely a different world than let me search my deck for a few minutes here.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, like, I mean Just, just like, I think if it's closer to staring at your opponent and being like, I'm not going to play the game until we run out of time, than it is to like, I'm not going to bench a two prizer because you would win next turn if I do. Then it's, it's, you know, something I wouldn't do. I don't think it's in the spirit of the game, but if, you know, you're on turn three, not giving your opponent game next turn, even though you would in like a normal game, is not your fault.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Love it. Liam, I realize the other question I did not ask you about winning was the post game interview. And I had a couple of questions for you in the post game interview. Did you regret not shouting out the pod afterwards?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Nope. Nope. I
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:traitorous near ban able behavior.
Kaden:I gotta say, glorious interview. I was laughing the entire time. It's, it's, it's in my top five.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:to hear that.
Cam:I need to watch that. I unfortunately didn't have the pleasure of seeing that.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Did you
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, dude, I shouted you out, man. Yeah, you
Cam:it. Wow, thank you. And not the podcast? Damn.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:got the you got the, you got you got the, the back end shout out, though. Like, the, like, I
Cam:Very like the tenth person after, after all the important people got
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I paused, like, two or three seconds. Oh, yeah, and Cam. Okay, and Cam, yeah.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:it was the almost forgot Oh yeah, Cam.
Kaden:Didn't you throw in he's the goat, though?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, I did at the end.
Cam:Last but not least.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Did you regret not shouting out Pokey Puzzles?
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:No. That's my thing. Why do I need to shout myself out? Like, what?
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:I dunno, here's your chance to like you know, I dunno, so, you know, it was like Growth Engineer something, I dunno. Should so, should, should you have shouted out Dragon Shield? They sent you free sleeves.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah. I'll think about it next time. I got you. That's crazy.
Mike:He like pulls out a piece of paper from his his pocket being like, I knew I was going to be here. I wrote it all
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:I'd like to thank the Academy.
Cam:I like to think willpower.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Guys, I don't know if you guys realize this, maybe Caden realized this, but I was thinking about it a fair bit and I mentioned it to Liam when his plane hit the ground at like 2 in the morning. This is Liam's first regional win of his life. One.
Mike:won one in in seniors or juniors? No. Oh,
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:He has like a million second places to Regan in juniors and seniors.
Kaden:See benefits of being on the west coast, I didn't have to deal with Regan.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:But yeah, yeah, won everything else, never won a regional.
Mike:Interesting.
Kaden:Well, big congrats. First regional win. Long time coming.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:So, a couple more questions about the, I think two more things that I think it's worth covering before we call it a show. How much do you guys think Perth's results affect How you'll think about Indie.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:That deck is good, so, it should, it should affect your thinking, I don't know how much it will affect everyone else's.
Mike:So I know you were like thinking about playing some type of Regi, Lucky, Zard, Liam What are, what do you think are some of the pros and cons between playing Tord, Zard, and Lucky, Zard? Yeah,
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:beats the mirror, I think. I don't know if it's good against Chermelion, and like, when you have a little bit less stuff than like, Abahn had. But yeah, like, the deck's not always able to make a lot of progress on the early turns of the game because you know, of course, the nature of Charizard's attack. So it's, it's not a crazy idea to just say, I'm gonna spend the first like, three, four turns like, hitting resources. And basically just, you know, weaving in things that Improved board state as opposed to playing Crysis. I mean, that's like a high level and I think it misses some of the the nuance and practice, but yeah, the Regia lucky is just, it's just good. You can weave it in well.
Mike:Notably their list did not include Stinky, Temple of Sunoh
Cam:Doesn't seem like people think Miss is real.
Mike:Yeah
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:I'm not playing that. Like,
Cam:And Temple's just worse than Giacomo in my opinion.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yeah.
Mike:What'd you say, Ken?
Cam:Temple's just strictly worse than Giacomo, I think.
Mike:Hmm. Interesting.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Giacomo still stinks. I'm not playing either of those cards. That was ultimately the reason I gave up on, was, I, like, he seems to think you have to play one of them if you want to beat Myst Energy in the Mirror. If that's true, I'm not playing that deck, because I'm not playing those. Those are terrible. I, I, like, I still might play the deck. I'm definitely not playing those. Those are the worst cards in the deck, for
Mike:Yeah.
Cam:The reason he did, the reason he did Digwild's Switching was I kind of was giving him the work even though I didn't know the matchup that well.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:And,
Cam:But then he went off with his friends and I think they convinced him back to Tordzard.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yeah, yeah, I know, right?
Mike:Can I also ask you guys I get Why people would play Max Belt in Zard. Prime Catcher seems better, but I get the reasoning behind Max Belt. I don't really get the reasoning behind Heroes Cape, and we've seen that from some, like, pretty good players. So, I don't know. Do you guys know why Heroes Cape? And, like, what are some of the main use cases?
Cam:I don't, I don't know which one is necessarily best, it might just be Primecatcher, but Heroes Cape does help in a lot of matchups where you can avoid knockouts on certain things. I think in the Tina matchup, specifically for Lucky Zard, at least the one that Bon was playing, like, you build up this, what he called Super Zard or whatever, you just put a mist on it, and you put a cape on it, and then even Leaves can't one shot it, and you pair that with like a Roxanne or Iona in the late game. You can also Heroes Cape, the Pidgeot, which is quite annoying in certain matchups where they're like, Oh, I was trying to target that down, 380's a little bit out of their range I think those are the reasons for, the main reasons for Heroes Cape.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah it's like somewhat a substitute for Bibarel in the mirror, in that you can keep the Pidgeot safe even on 2. Not really because of vacuum, but you can tell yourself it's safe. That's basically what Heroescape is in a nutshell. As long as there's no vacuum, it's probably the best A spec, but there's always vacuum.
Mike:Yeah.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:I think Pablo was saying on stream in a, a much earlier round, maybe on day one, that, that, you know he had seen Ancient Box Charizard matchups with where the Ancient Box had to like three hit the Charizard and he was like, you know, it's pretty much over if you have to three hit the Charizard.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, yeah, the Hero's Cape is really good against Ancient. It's good against Chen Pao, because it's hard to get one hit, and it's good against Lugia. It's hard for them to power up the Chinchino, it takes preparation at the very least.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah.
Mike:But, like, the Ancient Match was already good for Charizard, right? So, like, That's not like a super compelling reason I mean it's close, but like it's probably Charizard favored. But I guess the, being good against Chien Pao and Lugia is still maybe interesting enough to think about it.
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:yes, but it doesn't, it doesn't really make you good because it, like, it only makes you good once you skip past, like, the first, like, three turns of the game and you magically reach this position where you're, like, fully powered up Charizard. Like, I'm doing everything I want to do, and then the Hero's Cape stretches you further. But, like, You know, just Prime Kitcher KO turn 2 is like, that's how you smoothen out the early game, and the early game is really suspect for the Heroescape variants.
Mike:Sure, that makes sense. Hehehe.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Alright, we just have a couple of minutes left, and I thought there's always no guarantee Kayden will make it back next week, so Kayden tweeted right before Orlando that he was having some issues teaching his girlfriend how to play Pokemon, and I thought if we don't hear about that, we'll have done this podcast a terrible injustice. I
Kaden:I mean, first of all, I got I Issues is a, is a misconception. It was an amazing time. It actually went shockingly smoothly. I mean, my girlfriend is really, really smart, so she was able to pick up the game very rapidly and caught on to the mech I mean, Pokemon is
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:not gonna listen to this, you can tell us. This
Kaden:is at its core So, a pretty complex, it's basic rules are not that complex, but as soon as you like pick up a deck and start drawing your cards, all of a sudden you have a lot of choices to make, especially as a new player, like that's, this is one of the biggest things I was realizing. And as always when you're teaching someone something new like this, it, the biggest value that you get from it is seeing what it's like, and all the different pitfalls people fall into when they're first learning this. Learning a game and don't have that sort of intuition built up. And so like one of the biggest things was, you know, when you're experienced with a game, you're really only having, and I know this is something Liam will push back on endlessly and say this is the biggest trap that most people fall into, you're only really thinking about like one to three viable plays in a given turn. You can kind of immediately rule out a lot of different possibilities. As just obviously wrong. And when you're brand new to the game, and this was a thing my girlfriend was going through, you don't have that intuition so all of a sudden, you're not thinking, you're not having to figure out and choose between like a few viable play, potentially viable plays. You're having to think through like every possible choice. Which is a ton. This was one of the reason I so I had her start by playing Mew, VMAX, from previous rotation partially because I don't have any decks built for post rotation This is just what I had. I had Mew and I had Chen Pow, so we played the Mew Chen Pow matchup and I was not about to give her Chen Pow, so she played Mew and, MU is, you know, mu is a com is a complex deck. There are a lot of choices to make in every, in any given turn, and it's very easy to play sub optimally with mu. But your basic core strategy is very, very simple and easy to understand, and you're just trying to, you're trying to do, it's a very linear deck. You're trying to do one simple thing, generally speaking. And she caught onto that really fast. And so my tweet was in reference to her very first turn of the game. She opened up with a, she opened with a battle VIP pass in her hand, read the card, and was like, My god, this card is amazing. I want more of these. Played a Cremomatic to try to grab another VIP pass, flipped tails and cursed. And, and to me, this was just like a heartwarming moment where I was like, Wow, she, she is really understanding the game.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Is real pro moment here.
Kaden:yeah, exactly.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:tails on Cram for VIP.
Kaden:And, it was Honestly it was a really, really great experience. It is a ton of fun. I really enjoy teaching people games and watching people learn how to play new games. It's a fascinating experience. I would highly recommend for people to try to do it. And also, I don't know, there's something, some really great feeling about, like, you know, sharing a passion of yours that you've spent so much time with, with someone. who you love and like it is just a a kind of magical a magical experience so 10 out of 10 would recommend we will be playing more pokemon maybe we'll see maybe we'll go to a league challenge together which will definitely be throwing her into the deep end but yeah
liam_1_04-16-2024_180821:Yeah, it's the, the Shotown locals,
Kaden:i can't do indie i will
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:mean, why not just skip to the end and come on down to IndieO?
Kaden:NAIC
Cam:Mm hmm.
Kaden:But, yeah, it'll be, so we'll see. She definitely will never be, you know, actively competing, but it is, it is a good, it is a good feeling to like, you know, I can now be watching a stream watching like Orlando Finals, or watching Indie Finals with Liam Halliburton playing, and, you know, she'll have some, I can talk to her about it, she'll have some general sense of what's going on. Which is kinda great.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Nice. And soon, Mike will have a little Mike to watch Pokemon Twitch streams with. Although, although, little Mike's will be competing.
Mike:yeah, something like that. Hehehe. Nice.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:minutes. Cam, do you want to give us 5 minutes of how your tournament run went, or do you want to save it for next week?
Cam:Sure, I don't think it's that crazy. I think the deck is, the ceiling is not as high as Charizard, but it's a close second.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:What deck did you play?
Cam:I played Ancient box again. I made three changes. I just added some trekking shoes in from my EIC list. I didn't break as much. I went 1, 2, 1, which was a bad start. I misplayed against the Charizard, it was pretty bad. And then I played against somebody that was kind of heavily teched for ancient box. And after that, I didn't lose again the rest of the way. I did tie a few times. Was able to bring it back from 1 2 1. Tied my win in Infer 32, which kind of felt bad because I felt like I had the game locked up, and I think that's the strength of the deck. Like, I 1 0'd a lot of people. The deck is pretty much favored into anything that's not Charizard. I still have some things I want to work on, because I think I can still make the matchup a little bit better. Went 1 1 1 against Charizard, but yeah. It's a, it's a good deck, but just didn't have the, the poor start got me in the end.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Would you say you're locked in for indie?
Cam:No. I mean, I think Liam and Nabhan were talking a lot about Charizard yesterday. I still think Charizard has the highest healing, like I said before. Like, it's higher than the Ancient Boxes. I still like Ancient Box, but to be locked into a deck this far out, I think is, like Liam said, a mistake. So we still have a lot to try and work on.
Mike:how far is India away? Like three weeks? Four weeks?
Cam:Three weeks, I think. So, a good amount of time.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:And when does the baby do, Mike?
Mike:Well, that's gonna depend on some things. The due date is in six weeks, but we might, might be having it earlier. We'll see. We're getting some tests done over the next couple weeks. Might have to go early.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Alright, alright. Guys, I think that's it. We'll be back next week with not just like the story of Liam's life, but like more of that stuff, because I'm sure that's what the people want.
Mike:Yeah.
brent_1_04-16-2024_180821:Paul's RRR outro. Another pod in the books?
Mike:Congrats, Liam!