I feel like focus stats has let us down. Cause there's no like fun, new chart,
Brit:Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Brent:amazing array of wins and things like that.
Brit:I think cache makes them all, he's been too busy playing, I guess. Even, even, even, even with the results, I don't know. I feel like we've kind of. Ran this format into the ground in terms of just like, oh, well this week. And like, it seems pretty solved to me, which equally talking about the next phase of the player's club for just seems a little of the same tier, like, I guess it'll be more interesting because it's Swiss at least. So maybe a bit different. I mean you can play a worst deck in theory and Swiss. You know, he can't, you can't lose to pick around or something and double elimination, but you maybe CA can play a deck that does and Swiss, like something like that would be, would probably be the case, like that'll be worth talking about, but in general, it just like Victini kind of was really the only novel thing that's happened since players cup three. Really? Victini Rapidash I should say
Brent:Welcome to the Trashalanche. It's me, Brent Halliburton, as always. I'm here with Brett Pybas and Mike Fouchet attendance continues to be 100%. It's the thing that powers the pot. Chris Webby since Webster's laboratory, that's the song that opens upon. We continue to look for great new music to have an intro for Mike and I spent the weekend talking about how I I'm on the prowl for amazing the intro music. I need to say it more often, but if you don't follow some Twitter, you should follow us on Twitter at B Pybas at Mike Fouchet at bhalliburton. We're easy to find on Twitter and our Twitter accounts are more of the pod except in tweet form. If that's not reason enough to follow some Twitter, I don't know what is five star review update. There's no new reviews, guys. We're still on the road to 100 guys. When we hit 100, we will have a contest to award an amazing prize to the best comment ever. Keep your reviews coming. We re read the reviews on the pod and we discuss them. If you haven't left a review, what's taking you so long. You could be jumping in. I feel like people that get an early read to the benefits or something. All right. Exactly. All right. So the last big announcement before we dig into the format is thanks to our amazing sponsor channel fireball. We are ready to do our first crazy contest. We are calling it. the Tweedle Anch, and here's how I think it is going to work. So chilling rain is completely sold out. We, we asked channel fireball thing and get us a box and they were like, there are no boxes available in the galaxy. So we have a fresh booster box of battle styles cards. And we are going to open those cards and see what is inside. So here's what you gotta do. We are going to have a tweet, lanch tweet. You've got to reply to that tweet with the card you want. If we get those cards out of the booster box, I will DMU and we will send you those cards. So if you say I want rainbow rare, rapid strike Hershey foods, and we pull six of them out of the booster box, we will send you all six of them. It will be amazing. Here's the tricks. Couple of tricks first. You can't say I want the code cards. That's cheating. If you want the code cards, you have to guess the code. We're not gonna have people cheating like that. Right. If you want the rainbow rare, you must be specific. You can't just say I want all the OSHA food be maxes or all the rapid strikers or foods or something like that. If, if you feel like we might not be clear, you should tell us the exact set number of the card you were imagining. You're going to get final discretion is left to us. We will be the final determinants of it. If multiple people pick the same cards, you split them. If that means that you were about to get half of a rapid striker, should food be max, it's going to be pretty ugly. In that case, we'll probably flip a coin because it'd be too horrible and we want everyone to feel like winners here. But, but I think that's the plan. Oh, the, the last important thing to mention is I can't, I just can't bring myself to do this for international people. So here's what I'm gonna do for international people, because I do not want international people to feel excluded because as everyone in the pod knows, we are big in the Netherlands and big and Belgium and big in New Zealand. I have a brand spanking new return to earth, ultimate guard, deck box. That is made out of like 99% recyclable materials. And I will send that deck box somewhere in the world. So reply saying you love you love to get free stuff and you live internationally and we will pick one lucky international person raffle style, and I will be I'm that person. And we will send you an amazing deck box that you will love and treasure, and know that you participated in the Trashalanche Tweedle ranch. Oh, you have to, you have to reply with the thing you want and you also have to retweet it cause like it's a Tweedle. Interesting. We got to like spread the word. So I don't know if that was like too complicated. I recognize no one's done a contest like this before. I felt like doing a contest unlike anyone has ever done before was one of our criteria for having a contest. So we're going to see how it goes. If it's too crazy, we'll, we'll come up with something different for the next contest. But I wanted to be able to give like, All of our listeners, something crazy. I wanted everybody to feel like a winner, as opposed to these ones where they just like, say everybody retweets and like, and follow. And then like we'll raffle off one thing and have one person be a winner. I wanted everybody to be a winner. So this is my plan to make everybody feel like a winner.
Mike:So Brent, you're going to have a tweet that goes out as this episode goes live, and people will respond to that.
Brent:that is correct. So there will be a tweeter lanch tweet. There'll be labeled the tweet, lanch, retweet it and reply with the card you want choose carefully. If you have multiple replies to the tweet besides I love this, this is the greatest thing you've ever done. I've never seen anything on the internet as amazing as this that will be disqualified. You know, as, as always, we want everybody to feel like winners and we also don't want anyone abusing the process. So think carefully about the thing that the card that you would want
Mike:Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what approach people take. I'm sure some people will go for the, go for the gold and some people will just say, you know, I want a I don't know, tower of the, the, like the rapid strike tower card and we get like four of those and they're like, okay, sweet.
Brent:Yeah. yeah. Yeah. I, I want level balls,
Mike:Yeah.
Brent:me 10 level balls. Right. And like boom level balls. All right. Yeah. So there there's definitely, I think part of the fun of this is there's an arbitrage opportunity. an opportunity to risk it for the biscuit. There's a lot of strategies here. This is you know, it's, it's non-obvious I think what to do. And that is part of the adventure.
Mike:Sweet. Are you excited to, to see it?
Brent:Yes. All right. The next thing that we should discuss. Is the other adventure that I've embarked on, which is unformed.com, the new and greatest site in the internet. So have you guys had a chance to play a game yet?
Brit:I have tried, I have not actually matched with anyone yet. So I played, I played this Sunday open on Sunday and it was my intention to do that, like in between. And then afterwards all I could, but the DNS was down or whatever the problem was. So I didn't end up being able to play anything on Sunday. And then I've been at my computer here and there probably too early. I'm sure it's just what the problem is. People aren't weren't there, but I tried to queue and didn't find anyone after quite a while, but it seems to be going, it's kind of like what I expected to happen. It's like the, the later evening streamers seem to be partaking in it, which is great. But that's around the time I'm done doing anything. I don't, I'm just watching TV or something like that until I go to bed.
Mike:Old man, Brett,
Brit:Yeah, exactly.
Brent:exactly. How about you, Mike? Have you given it a try yet?
Mike:I have not yet. I was planning on doing it tonight.
Brent:All right. That's what we like to hear.
Mike:Yeah.
Brent:So, so I sat in on chip Richie stream at B Brett, you hit the nail on the head shout out to chip. I mean he literally spent three hours just streaming him, queuing up for games yesterday, and the result was. You're like 200 people queued up for games yesterday it was absolutely phenomenal. And like I recognize on the one hand, it seems like the software kind of works and like, people kind of like it and like, like there haven't been complaints about the software, but I recognized kind of to your point, Brit, it's like really all about whether or not people use it. Right? Like you can overcome a lot of problems that people use it and you know, if nobody uses it, like, it doesn't matter how good the software is because you never match with anyone. I mean, it, you know, it's like Tinder with one person on it just doesn't work. But Yeah. it's a chip is chip is the absolute goat. Azule had a tweet like two days ago where he was like, I'm queuing up people. Who's going to play me. And, and I am sure that that absolutely drove people to queue up for games because
Brit:Yeah. I hadn't thought of that aspect of it, but that would be a really wonderful way. Not only for you to just kind of boost yourself as a content creator, but just to, like, I would like experience against good players. Like again, I have frustrations, like, I don't know. I didn't, I won two dropped the Sunday open. I won round one and then just had like, just lost to the worst ADP list on the planet. That kind of model while off on me and I have a dead hand. And then I just, like, I played Eternatus and I'm not exactly sure how you're supposed to win that match up. When they don't break, but I, I got beat down pretty badly, but yeah, but like, I want to play against Sander. I want to play against, towards like the great way, like to boost the, the site itself while you know, farming content.
Brent:yeah. That, well, that's what you gotta do is just tweet that you are like queuing up when you go to queue up and that'll like, hopefully drive other people to queue up. And then that makes the machine do what to do, right. Speaking of content creation, I feel like Pokemon has started sending out chilling rain boxes to everyone, but us.
Mike:I did think of that.
Brent:Yeah. Pokemon just want to put you on notice so you can be participating in the Tweedle and it's right now we could be talking about chilling rain. And instead we're talking about battle styles. I mean you know, I know Jesse Hill is a constant monitor. Maybe that listener, I don't know of the pot, but like monitor it, come on, man. Not make that stuff happen.
Mike:Them off to send the the Tweedle Anch I want. Once the tweeter lanch is super successful, then we'll send it and to promote us and then we'll get the next set.
Brent:exactly, exactly. Yeah, I, mean, everybody knows this is the future official Pokemon podcast. You should be jumping on top of that guys. Just putting Pokemon on notice. All right. Guys, let's actually talk about Pokemon. I didn't watch the, a team challenge that top four stream because I was too busy trying to fix DNS problems that Brent referred to earlier. How did it end do we, do we know
Brit:Yeah, I, I, I watched a little bit of it and it wasn't, I mean, it was not to downtalk the stream or anything like that, but it was just metadata against metadata decks the whole time. So I tuned in here and there, and it was just like the finals. It was just like, it seems like really similar lineups, like mad party. ADP Matt party ADP and then like an Eternatus I think I forget, but it was pretty standard.
Brent:so does that mean that standard. not make top four or did they like bumped his
Brit:No, yeah, that was I, I thought that was a, a good read. I don't know, but yeah, they weren't involved. I think I want to say that didn't wasn't it, the Latin American, that one. I'm not sure.
Mike:No, there was a, I think it was a team from the somewhere from EU, maybe even the Netherlands. But not Sander's team from the Netherlands
Brit:I remember like the, the American team was from like, I just didn't recognize kind of any names of anyone involved, but
Brent:yeah. I felt the same way, like so when I said I didn't watch the stream, I went back to like, I don't know if it was the Twitch thing or the YouTube thing after the fact and tried to kind of like fast forward my way through to see if I saw Sander's name, because I'd be like, okay, that's an indicator that a crazy deck is being played. I would watch that cam and like, I never saw a name that I recognized Hey it's a credit to those teams. They must've come together as a team. You know, what's what's that saying, like, you know, a great team is better than an individual or something. Parent? Probably probably my, not a superstar a team model, something like that.
Mike:so it seems, yeah. So the team was from the Netherlands. I found one of the tweets one of the members was Brian who I feel like is someone that I've heard of before. Definitely has made worlds
Brent:I agree. I agree.
Mike:EDU at some point or top 22, whatever it is there, it looks like there was another person that was top 22 in Europe. At some point maybe, maybe, maybe three out of four of them could have been top 22 at some point. So definitely a very solid team, just not as familiar with them. Probably because they're very strong in Europe and maybe haven't had a, like an icy result and therefore their name doesn't, you know, travel across the world. But it seems like they're, they've been very good players and they're clearly very good players from from their wind here. So that's really cool to see
Brent:who were the who was the other team? Do we now?
Mike:there was a team from Latin American, maybe Britt that this is what you were thinking of, but the. One of the people that has both of them, I believe their brothers have been doing really well in the online scene. And I think Marco was one of the people on the Latin America team. I don't know if they were in the finals or if they lost in top four, but I just remember that as one of the teams, I don't, I don't remember the other two though. And I only watched a little bit as well, that what I want, what I most remember watching is there was like an eternity versus ADP match, like back to back and they kind of like flip sides. Right. And just every single game, one of the decks brick, and it was over quite quickly. And I was like, well, this is why I don't want to play either one of these decks. Cause it's like, one of them is always brick. Yes.
Brent:sounds about right. Sounds about right. All right. How about we talk about players cup before June 19th. So we're like two weeks out. Mike, have you started testing besides just like planning online tournaments? Like, is there, is there anything that you're doing to prepare.
Mike:Not really, as we, right before we were hopping on Brentwoods kind of saying like this, the meta-game feels a little bit solid. Victini was new, like two weeks ago. But other than that, there hasn't really been too many new, crazy things. So I think it would take a lot of effort to quote unquote, crack this format. And I don't know if I really want to put a lot, a lot of effort in, so I've been playing Pikarom Jacinta online tournament. I played the the Tempozard. Last week, I think right before the podcast last week. But other than that, no, I've just kinda been playing games with Pikarom here and there. Thinking about what the list that I would want to play is because there has been interesting discussion on peaker, on lists, like with the, you know, my list with four boss for Bolton has kind of gotten popular, but people are going back and try and, you know, things like yell, grant and whatnot. Vinnie Fernandez had a list with three cherish balls. So I tried that out in a tournament last week. So really just kind of thinking about beaker I'm I'm trying not to, I'm trying not to go too crazy with it. I'm just sticking with what I know and going to make sure that I have the optimal list for that.
Brent:so, so here's, here's my question for you is tool scrapper really that. bad? Like,
Mike:terrible.
Brent:I feel like, I mean, I guess as I've thought about it, I feel like. People, maybe It's gone away a little bit with, with the Victini deck being like a little more prominent, but I felt like there was a little while where a lot more people were playing LMZ and if you, if you said, I want to take a little harder for that matchup, like tool scrapper is a good way to do that. Right.
Mike:Okay. 14th energy, like, okay. Okay. So tool scrapper, the only matchup I agree, the only matchup you can reasonably play it for is LMZ, but there's just better cards for that matchup. Then tool scrapper, like the 14th energy is much better than tool scrapper in the mattress. That's a hundred percent the best card you play. Probably a 15th energy is better than Philip scrapper too. I've never tried to play in 15, but really the only thing you really need is energy in that matchup. Fourth boss is better than tool scrapper. Maybe tool scrapper is the third best card you could play, but like 14th energy and fourth boss are clearly better and those cards are also way better against other match-ups. So to me, there's no, there's no logical reason to play till scrapper when you can just play other cards that are better and good in other match-ups.
Brit:have you seen, I've seen some of these too. I think Vinny also was one of these, the main people experimenting with don't usually see it with the big term, but I suppose you can still do it, but three, the third air balloon as being like one of these I guess the 61st 60th card. Have you tried that at all? Do you have any thoughts or comments on that? Like, it makes sense obviously, like it's just another you know, way to hedge your, the chances of you making sure you get Boltund active turn one. And I haven't tried it at all, but I dunno, it's rare that I feel like I really need switches with that deck. Like, I don't know, like, we've talked about a fair amount of the time on here. Kind of maybe some of this too, it's just in the group chat, but one of the. I mean kind of like switches that flips between becoming like, just average. Okay. At Pikarom and being really, really good at it. It's kind of that really high-level conservative play. So you don't have to go like, especially now with the lists without energy switch and stuff. Now you're not sort of trying to pop off turn one and get cocoa and maybe Full Blitz or something. Like we don't play it like that anymore. So with that being said, like, obviously you do have to dig for it. And I, at the same time, I don't, it doesn't sound necessary to me, but I can think of too many games where I still don't get the bolt-on doubt. And maybe, maybe the air balloon would have made a difference, but yeah, that was a ramble. What are your thoughts on three-year balloon?
Mike:Yeah, I think it's pretty good. I don't think I would ever play it if I was also playing crushing hammers, but the times when I didn't play crashing hammers then I would always fit a third air balloon. It's just, it's it's a good card. It's but it's always, probably going to be like my 62nd card. Like I feel like it would never actually make the cut. But I think it is, it is good. Like, I can't can't deny that it's a. Pretty solid. And really just for the reason you said, just kind of like upping your consistency a little bit more. There's a decent argument for running it over the fourth Bolton into like, I feel like those are somewhat interchangeable. I've kind of gone for the fourth Boltund recently. Because I think it's good in the LMZ metric and the rapid strike matchup, but yeah, three, everything is solid.
Brent:so I recognize you guys kind of lead off with the format's little stale, but a couple of questions. Logan McKay. Tweets. I won the new squad, TCG invitation with Mike Fouchet Tempozard this deck is absolute best I can format right now. And I think this list is absolutely bonkers. I assume you guys both saw that because Mike was tagged Mike, do you have any reaction to Mike? Fouchet Tempozard as best I can forward.
Mike:I mean, it's like, I didn't really do anything too crazy with the list. I guess I was one of the first people to put in the Rapidash, but I feel like other people put in rapid ass before me too. Maybe I just was like the first one to get a top eight with Rapidash and Tempozard. And other than that, the list is pretty standard.
Brent:You're just a big time content creator. So when you say you did a thing, people are like, you invented that thing.
Mike:I appreciate the cloud I guess, but
Brit:gotta, you gotta claim that wasn't not, not just like two or three weeks ago, maybe even six weeks or something that like drama of the week was like, Over like, you know, I'm the creator that I create, you know, it's like, no, you just, you put obviously good cards together. No one's fading anything here. You know, that, that was, that was making the rounds I recall. And the petty Pokemon drama
Mike:So if you don't mind, I'm going to, I want to take these two examples though, and maybe steer the conversation towards something that I've been wanting to talk about a little bit more in depth for a few weeks. So something I think about quite a lot is how sometimes your deck building, you're making direct substitutions for things, you know, I might drop a cherish ball for an electromagnetic grader or you know, a drop a and energy for a capture energy and like rapid strike.
Brent:Drop on Boltund for an air balloon because they both have the same probability of turn one. Boltund.
Mike:Right. Sometimes there's direct substitutions like that, but I think, I think there's a huge component of deck building that isn't really talked about that much. And I don't know if, what the proper term for it is maybe like a. Tangental substitutions or tangental changing. So let me try to explain what I, what I mean is if I change, if I, if I change one card, then it may make sense to me to also change another pair of cards, because I'm trying to compensate for a you know, the first change that I made maybe makes Matt some matchup better and some matchup worse. And but if I change, so therefore I changed like another set of cards that does the reverse thing. Now, both of the changes were made somewhat directly, but by combining the two changes, I've like either kept my matchup, like kept the matchups more closely to what they were before, rather than, you know, the match-ups getting further apart. So that's a little abstract. So let me give some concrete examples in the In the Tempozard deck by adding Clarion Rapidash it, you know, it makes match-ups theoretically, like Eternatus better. But by adding Rapidash, I also of want to add ways to find it. And so I want to fit more Pokemon communication. Now the original list that I had only had one Pokemon communication, one rapid edge. So if I want to be able to find Rapidash more often, then I also need to change something like a drop, a cherish ball for a second communication. So I guess that that's not exactly the matchup thing that I was talking about before, but it is highlighting that by, by adding this one card, I also want to change another set of cards to respond to that. So that, that was one example. The other one that is more matchup related is in Pikarom. So when thinking about, and I've talked about this a little bit, I have been recently included the 14th energy, the Ford speed, lightening energy over the third search card. So over like a S a third cherish baller, electromagnetic radar, they're both consistency cards, but cherish ball is better versus rapid strike and speed. Energy is better versus LMZ. But if I'm playing other cards that are also good against rapid strike, like the fourth Bolton on the fourth boss that I've recently put into the list as well, then I can get away with dropping a cherish ball, find it like drop making my rapid, making my search cards a little bit worse against rapid strike. In order, because I'm already playing other cards that are getting in rapid strike and therefore like making my other match-ups better in this case, LMZ with an extra energy that is also like a consistency card. So it's, I dunno if I'm making sense with this whole tangent that I'm going on, but So let me pause there, see if, see what you guys think. And then we can keep going if.
Brent:so, so my reaction is like, like I think, I think it's interesting. I think there's like two kinds of changes, people making decks, like one is like they're trying to kind of, you know, you're, you're trying to improve consistency and one is like, you're trying to improve match-ups I don't know if there's other kinds, I guess. I don't know if I've really thought about it, like quite in this way, if somebody said, Hey, I want to cut that. Oricorio for Kriketune. You know, the cherish balls in your deck have less value. And you're like, okay. maybe I should think about other search cards, the cherish balls, as I like, kind of slowly decrease the value of like, what kinds of cards can you get with cherish ball versus other things, right? Like we value quick ball more today than cherish balls because there's all these big cards in the format. Like even in people around me, like, well, I want to be able to get, Crobat be like, you want outs to these other cards. So you play quick balls over cherish balls. And then there's not even the discard to like, so like you're, you're trying to like do those kinds of calculations, but, you know, as you decrease, the amount of GX is you get less and less value out of church balls and more and more value out of other things. Right. But you know, other kinds of searches, like, like, so that's like a calculus that you run as you think about how your deck sets up and, and how like deck search works ups. I think match-ups are trickier. I think that's why you have a hard time articulating it because it seems like, like the trade-offs you make unless a card is just like a, a straight hard counter are like a little more nuanced, right? Like when people talk about putting age of slash in ADP, like, you know, you're just, there's this one thing you're doing that, like you're going to do it or you're not going to do it. Right. Yeah, I mean, maybe that's a sign of like you know, a, it player playing a deck that he knows really well, but like, you're, you're more like manipulating probability at like the kind of the outer margins you're trying to like take metrics from 55 to 60, 60 to 65. I'm like, like, so those are the kinds of trade-offs that you're trying to make versus just straight up hard counters. Right? The, the, like, Danielle be, I'm going to put a Bunnelby in a Girafirig again, and it's going to fix my mill match-ups oh, darn it, it doesn't like. Well, again, I do this, your straight hard counter and right. You're like this deck doesn't have an answer to blah, blah, blah. I'm going to put these cards in that have habit answer to blah, blah, blah. I put a slash and ADP, and now I win the situa. Yay.
Mike:Yeah, I think so. I did use this term in my article and I guess it makes sense to maybe just use that again is soft countering, and that's kind of what you're talking about. Like being in thinking about how, like the cards that you like maybe already play or, or, or are more versatile than a hard counter, but they don't have quite as much of an impact, but. You're kind of like turning knobs. That's kind of like a way that I think about it. Like you're turning knobs on different, match-ups just like slightly a little bit, and you're trying to keep them all at a good place. When you're, especially when you're playing a deck like Pikarom or Tempozard for example, where that's kind of, the appeal of them is that they have lots of close match-ups. So you want to like, make sure that your, your match-ups are all close. You don't want to sack. You don't want to like, not completely tech for something, but you don't want to overtake for something as well. If you're taking a completely different approach, like playing the decidua you probably don't have to think about this quite as hard because your deck you're just more metric dependent.
Brent:The Danielle TV example is a good one because it kind of illustrates the challenge probably in soft counters. Like when you get hard counter with one card, a lot of people do that. Right, I mean, we talked about how bad it just slashes, but like a lot of people put age slash in ADP. Cause they're like, it's one card, it's hard counters this entire deck. I don't like losing that deck, so I'm gonna play like this one card hard counter. And then, you know I think Danny's problem was if I'm going to take two or three cards and it's a soft counter, man, what the heck? Like if I take three cards, it's gotta be a hard counter.
Mike:Right, exactly. I feel like the other type of deck that I. Had a lot of this same type of thinking about in recent years is just like Zoroark, Zoroark decks, like Zororoc and Zororoc pod. There's a lot of like small changes you can make that you really had to think about this in a, in an abstract way. So like, one thing that comes to mind is you would often want to play like a Serola or max potion. Sometimes you would play both, but often you'd only have you really don't know, only want to devote one slot to like some type of healing card. And if you played a Serola, you might want to play one less other supporter, you might play one less professor kukui or one less Guzma, because you knew that you were going to have to use your support or sometimes on a Serola where you said, if you play max potion, you could devote an extra supporter slot. So I guess, I guess that's a pretty, another good illustration of this thing that I'm trying to describe.
Brit:I mean, even, even to keep pushing with soar too, like I think just one of the, while we're just talking about what makes a DNO, it sets a good deck, a great deck builder apart from a good one. Just think about Robin winning worlds without any ultra ball. Like what a, what a push that was, you know, and just sort of the whole way that the deck was built. You know, naturally I think it could only have worked with Garbodor or it couldn't have worked with so many of the other, their pairings, but I don't know. That's just one of the things that is so really just astonishing to me in recent deck buildings that like something so simple would have been, you know, so good yet in front of her eyes the whole time. Yeah. And it's just. It's about this stuff. It's not necessarily about like, fitting into that, that like obscure Pokemon, that's going to solve your weakness problem. Like, no, it's, it's, it's done in the nitty gritty with the consistency cards. And yeah, I mean, maybe just to go back to like, to, to use Azule as an example, and maybe why he's so great of a player is that he's, he's never, he's not one you know, making these risky deck choices. It's just all about the 50 fifties. It's all just all about the being marginally better each and every time. And then, you know, just doing that day in and day out, you, you, you, and as many regionals as he does, or what have you.
Brent:Maybe you could talk about how supplies to a Eternatus for a second Brit. Cause like I saw, I was watching chip last night and he was playing some maternity stacks and like, I feel like I mean he was playing he was playing Zigzagoon he was playing and I just thought it was interesting, like how people have kind of settled on that package a little bit. Maybe it's just that available is really good because rich for your treat is absolutely sick, but like, I think that's a perfect example of how I think decks have evolved to have different match-ups and maybe it's just like the printed of belts and belts slammed on. Cause that, that the answer, I don't know.
Brit:I'm not sure. Yeah. So this was motivated kind of by a few factors. The main one was from, I think it was a response to a tweet. Mikey responded I'm blanking on who the, maybe it was Kiernan again, I think. But there was an initial tweet, just sort of dunking on people playing hammers and Eternatus and Mikey responded like, yeah, I, you know, I think similarly or something to that effect, and that was sort of kind of my exact impression. So I had, I played a good during keys a couple of weeks ago, I played a good good, good match up and talk four against I think Patrick Wall on Twitter playing LMZ and he was playing Eternatus with hammers and you know, not to say that hammers are necessarily bad or anything like that, but I immediately, after, after our games, I, I think I w I won, it was a close game. And then I went on to finals and lost. I was playing LMZ, but then after that, I switched to a turn into some kind of just was trying to build his list from memory. Cause we played basically a deck out game. It was a really, really long one. And so he, but then as I'm putting hammers into the list, I'm just thinking to myself like, why, why do I need this? Like, what match-ups do these solve for me? Like, it's just in, if there's an answer out there, I would love to hear that. We don't really have, I was thinking this too. There's aren't quite like like we have Mikey for Pikarom like Jake care, heart, people like that for LMZ there's no real, like internalist Turnitin loyalists out there. So I would, you know, someone like that would always, you know, they always come in with the right opinion. Maybe they
Brent:are they the answer? The answer is you knock the water off the ADP. That's your only hope of beating ADP, right,
Brit:right. right. I guess. Yeah. I guess that's, to me, like Eternatus just clearly has consistency issues and I don't know what the hammer would be for. And so like the list I threw together, I was like, oh man, four extra spots. I'm just going to play like more supporters. And it was great. You know, I just had more access to like the Phoebe packages and things like that. And I guess, I mean, I still think you just are fine coin flipping with ADP for the most part anyways. I mean, hammers are frustrating no matter what, but I just, I just don't see them because namely, because attorneys' has, is a clunkier deck or truly can be a lot of the time, like that's why you can't afford to play hammers. But anyways, so that was, that was where I got started with this, but I just don't, it's related to this ball, these ball questions we've been going through. I don't understand why. The lists generally favor, great ball over communication. In my head, in my head, the fourth communication seems better than the fourth grade ball, but more often than not, it's the other way in, in lists. And I mean, in my list, this other list, I think I had four core four, like that was just one of the first places I went with the extra space. But yeah. Why is that? Is, is that right? Is namely my question, like, am I wrong about the communications? Cause grateful. Just I'm. I remember too. And I built with messing with single strike, Israel won a team challenge with it and his list played great ball too. And I was just like the immediately, the first card I cut. Like I just like why it's such a variant it's cards. Like it's not like Pokegear netting you something really, really important when you have less options. Like it's just like, it could be anything, it just doesn't strike me as being useful. And like, obviously it's really useful when you pick Crobat and it was your last card in hand, but so often it just feels like. I don't know, it's more Turbo, it's more aggressive. So you fill your bench faster
Brent:Yeah, it's just, it's just all about filling your bench, right. I like it. It's, it's strictly like I need to do 30 more damage. I better I'm going to play this great fall into 30 more damage.
Brit:I just don't. I mean, maybe, maybe the real solution is just playing for both, but like, I just like, I understand, I understand that, but like, I, I see, I really do see what, you know, obviously communication is detrimental to your, your end game with your dread end, but like, I just feel like it turned into this loses more when it doesn't get the Pokemon, it needs not necessarily that it doesn't fill, it spans. Like, I don't know. I've played plenty of games against Eternatus where they're not doing like perfect math the entire time know, I guess in theory, that's part of why I'm in the game playing Pikarom or something like that. But you can still win. Like you don't have to be doing max damage against things like ADP and that's a match every year. Of course, just really need to be more consistent. I mean, I, I take that back. Obviously you do need to one-shot the ADP as soon as possible, but as the game continues, like it's not paramount that you have your vengeful and so on, but I think I'm probably wrong thinking about it now, but Just, it's just, it's not a reliable card. And I guess maybe that's part of the problem too, is if, as a deck, if you have to rely on great ball, it's like, so I know too, like both Blacephalon used to mess around with playing a couple of copies of it too. And I just thought the same thing in the air. Like let that cause so few Pokemon too, like you're just hoping to hit Geraci sometimes, I guess.
Brent:it's interesting. I assume there's some like mathematical, like where you could try to work out what's better, but I hear you, like, that's, it's definitely a complicated case. Like there's situations where you have a VMX in hand and you have to play Crobat and it's turn one. And you're like, it'd be great to have a pokey calm to get this out of my hand. And like, in my handout for this Crobat. So there's like, there's a value in like being able to put a card into your deck and burn a card and like, but like there's value of the other way and just like searching for. Like, you know, you just, you do just need to fill your bench sometimes, like figuring out how you measure just the straight up value besides the, what are the odds. I find that like the Pokemon I'm looking for here versus what are the odds that have a Pokemon in hand and I have this card and I'm able to get the perfect Pokemon. It seems hard. It's hard. It's hard to figure it out.
Brit:yeah, like in my head too, like I was thinking that like, well, communication is conducive for Crobat. It gives you, it makes her Crobat bigger. So you know, in the event that that's what you're searching with the communication or that's what you already had it, like you're drawing more cars. So it would be similar to the gray ball already. Yeah.
Brent:But it's only similar if you have a Pokemon in hand, right.
Brit:Yeah. I don't know. This is sort of like a weird revelation. I don't know why it's taking me so long to realize that Eternatus is just like, not really a tier one deck. I ma maybe this I'm not sure. I mean, I guess with Arisha Fu you know, this would maybe be a more particular development, so it was perhaps a better deck, like earlier in the formats. But these just consistency issues just seem to happen. So, so often that I just wonder like, well, I didn't, I only seem to just be aware like, oh yeah. Like it only clicked in my head recently that, that it's an kind of a clunkier deck, whereas it's always been clunky and I don't know why, like, it's just a weird thought I've had recently.
Brent:you know, what's interesting is like, it's, it has kind of some of the same kind of tier one B elements that are Shifu has. And that like, I mean, last night I was watching chip chip play Eternatus and he was beating nourisher food decks. And you're like, dude, if you can't be the Eternatus with our Shippo, or should we not a good deck, like, you need to be able to beat like fighting weak decks. If you can't do that, like it's not getting there. And, and, you know as a result is like a turn. It, it seems like it's just good enough to fool you. Right. But, but, you know, if you say, if you say like Arisha Fu and Eternatus are like, in that one, B is one a really dressed ADP and Pico rom and some fire thing. I mean, I
Mike:Yeah, I think so. And those are all tagged index. So there you go. We need to do evolve. Yeah. I, I, I agree with pretty much everything you guys said, especially the hammers in Eternatus is so funny to me, like the, going back to the team challenge. I remember watching a Eternatus mirror. That was comical. Like they both just kept whipping things and they both played hammers. I believe if I remember correctly, maybe only one of them did, but I think both did. And like, there was one player that was attacking early, like hit some hammers early was clearly ahead, but then got martyred and just didn't draw cards for the rest of the game and lost. They like whipped a switch to win the game. Like it was, it was tragic. And so like, yeah, hammers are good in the mirror, but not if you're not attaching energy and doing the things that you need to do.
Brent:and I'm sure I'm sure the people that put the hammers in their deck are thinking, when I hit heads, turn one, it gives me that extra turn that propels me to victory. Like, I can hear the inner, like monologue of like the guys at my local league, the build the Eternatus. And they're like, yeah, this is a good strategy. This is going to fix all my problems. Like all that man, 50% of the time, it don't work like that. And your deck is less consistent.
Mike:Yeah,
Brent:That's probably not the answer. Right.
Mike:there's such a big difference of playing hammers in peaker on versus any of these stage one, even in ADP. Like it makes way more sense because you, all you have to do is basics. Like the basics, just run your deck as soon as you have to evolve playing cards, like hammers are just not very good.
Brent:well, I think maybe, maybe coming back, you know, the, the circular reference that every good story is waiting for is like, I think to your point, when you have stage ones and or stage twos, search cards becomes so much more important. Like it's not just about, you have Pokemon in your deck, it's about finding the Pokemon you need when you need them. And like the value of search cards just shoots through the roof. Right.
Mike:Yeah, exactly.
Brent:like, maybe that's the argument for, like, you got to run four great balls and four poker tops. Because like, when you need that stage one, Eternatus you like really need it when, when you need the Crobat like, you really need it.
Mike:Yep. Exactly.
Brit:a lot of pieces.
Brent:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like I mean probably like every stage one deck, although I think less like Victini and I maybe that's why Victini is so popular and doing so well. Like with Eternatus there's like a lot of sequencing. Like you gotta get, you gotta get all these Pokemon and you gotta get the stage one and you got to find the energies. Like you got to draw a lot of stuff and not play the dinner. Right.
Brit:it's so hard for me to really gauge like how good the Victini is. Like for me, these texts are just, the questions are it's like, it's just so almost comedic that these, you can just play one of them. It's just barely even a focus. It's just your all-star and so many match ups. Like. Just the help is so like, nothing can do anything against it. Like it's just always like, as, as a peaker I'm player and I'm sure Mike has many more experience than this. So anytime I'm staring down, like it's different when you're in, you're in an unbelievable game. Like when they've just welder, welder, welder, like you can't win those. But when you're like only staring down like a four energy one, and it doesn't really matter if they're going to put it into six energies or not, it's going to be kind of a hard game. It's just always so awkward to deal with. Just so many that the attacks are good. Outrageous. Good. Just what a, what a good card without it. Yeah. Obviously Victini is so good post rotation, but like if people weren't playing it now, like Victini, wouldn't be a deck at all. I'm sure. Without the, just kind of other usual suspects of the fire decks.
Mike:Yeah. So Jay Hornung ran a 2004 tournament this past weekend and a bunch of really great players, both new and old played in it. So it was kind of cool to see the results. Robin Schulz ended up winning with team magma and Jason Kaczynski was,
Brent:I think.
Mike:yeah, third or fourth with with bleeds again, and then lots of other good people in there. Jake Gearhart played Zaja. Mike Reynolds throwback from Florida played the meadow is really interesting in general.
Brent:This all played on TCU one.
Mike:this was all played on TCG on. Yep.
Brent:So, so I assume neither of you put,
Mike:Did not.
Brent:so can you guys tell me, like yeah, give me the whole narrative, like, were these decks different than the decks people played in 2004? Like we had like big learnings there.
Brit:no, this is I don't, I can't, I don't know. The further you go down there's there's quite a bit, I don't quite recognize. But for the most part, like the story of 2004 worlds was blazer kin versus magma. I'm blanking on. And then maybe Mikey will know. I don't remember how many other, like, obviously this was back in the day, as we've talked about before on the podcast, when there was no like day two or anything like that, you just went straight into a single elimination bracket. Off the top of my head, I don't really quite remember how well, like other plays it can stead. I seem to remember that drew Holton. Might've done well with blazer Ken at this worlds, but I don't remember if that's right, but yeah. Plays a can. And magma where it's at the top decks going well, not, I guess that's kind of part of the story too. And then again, hopefully Mike, Mikey will correct me on some of this, but from what I understand, this was before my time even just played with people who played back then there's this, that blaze akin was the best deck. I don't, I did it when U S nationals going into worlds. I don't it didn't right,
Mike:it didn't Kai Guardi won nationals and Kyle Pooka came second with Wallerian melodic, but it was still, it was the best deck of the season by a large margin. So it kind of had a target on his back and nationals and then did very well, obviously at worlds.
Brit:Yeah. And so magma was I don't know. I just, I believe it just was not, it wasn't played at all. People thought I was bad. It was one of those things like clearly meant to be an archetype, like clearly, like being a Quizlet. The feature of these sets is this new mechanic, these, these cards that have specific search, specific supporters and so on, but for whatever reason, it just wasn't relevant. For, and again, I shouldn't say like everyone, this is just Americans, but I don't know sort of what the international presence really was. Back then, but anyways, so magma just kind of swept every division. And it was all played by the Japanese and swept. The Japanese players all showed up with and it won, it wins every division I believe, and kind of just comes out of nowhere. And also, I guess, part of the cool part of the story to 2004 it just kind of the transition changing of the guard, the first worlds under, since like Nintendo or I guess CBCI Pokemon is involved in the game rather than wizards of the coast. And just kind of the start of, I, at least for me, all these, all the players from back then were still around when I was starting to play. So this was kind of like the start of it all. Back then, I'm not sure how you could frame it now for newer players, but everything has started here at least in terms of, I think our current, like, even the way we think about things with worlds and regionals and things like that, this was the first year for all of that. Yes.
Mike:Yeah, but that's also how I think about it too. Like Philip got second drew Holton got top eight. Collin got top eight, I think. Like Mike Premo got very last place and then one like a, a. Constellation award where I got like a box
Brit:I was like a spirit of the game.
Mike:spirit of the game or that's what it was. So just like a bunch of funny storylines that kind of came out of it, but going back to the decks themselves. Yeah. So magma was it, so it beat three of the biggest sex in the U S meta-game where blaze akin, Gardevoir and swamper and magma beat those three decks in the finals of the three different divisions, which was even like cooler. So it kinda like beat, it won all three divisions beating three of like our top four or five decks. So it like very much, yeah, it kinda came out of nowhere. I don't remember exactly your motto's list. I don't think Robin changed all that much from the list, but a lot of these other decks have evolved, which is pretty cool. So the Blasic enlist that Jason played, for example, doesn't run any Rayquaza GX. And that was unheard of at the time, every single Blasic Indeck ran Rayquaza GX.
Brit:it's really bad. Yeah. And the magma metric there, right? Like as a, I think you can like start it and just immediately lose.
Mike:right. I think that's probably part of it.
Brit:And also, I guess it would make sense too. Cause part of too, what made makes magma so good. And we don't really get these decks all that often anymore, especially with the tag teams, but kind of it's you had to take six prizes. It's a bunch, it's a bunch of won prizes. And so obviously requires a kind of as required as always do, just do a lot of damage. And so naturally it was like a, a big blow up effect plays akin to having the Firestarter ability. You know, with like Malibu it's a little better. Right. I think it can do it from the active position. Well I guess nevermind Mallomar and electric electric could do that too again, or it could move it to the active right.
Mike:No Blasic and also go straight to the bench,
Brit:Okay. I don't know what I'm thinking of, but yeah, it was kind of, it's one of the, just like household archetypes abilities of the Pokemon card game. This was that just for fire energy. I was thinking of Thai flourish and prime.
Mike:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Brit:with. But anyways yeah. Yeah. And one of the things in the list I noticed particularly, I guess, while we're talking about Jason's is he's not playing bull blossom either the one-on-one blossom Ends up being tech option for a lot of these players that conduct. So I'm not too sure. I know it matters in the magma matchup a lot. But I'm not sure where it matters elsewhere, but what it does is it just can, it can heal your it's like a potion effect to your active once per turn. And like, so for Colin who no one played the whale or deck in this tournament, but that was kind of a big factor of the deck that Collin mom made top eight with at worlds, which was just like I guess one of the first Staller mill decks out there, it just revolves around Whaler DX, which has 200 HP. And it just tries to deck you out with these, the fossil cards back then the fossil cards. Didn't net you a prize if you knocked them out. So I guess they're kind of like crocodiles before we had them. Or even though I guess there were Pocono cards kind of throughout the whole game, but I don't know when they started doing the kind of robo substitute effect. But yeah, that was one of the big things I noticed about Jason's list.
Mike:yeah, that's a big, so the original reason blossom was played was for the watery and melodic metric. Yep. Cause it, you used it both to heal, but also as an attacker cause it resisted water. So that was the original reason and they kind of just ended up being good against the magma deck as well. The other thing that Jason's plays again, list and a bunch of the other blades can listen this tournament, they play a ditto that never saw play. It's a ditto that from Scott, from Skyridge, it just gets to copy one of the defending Pokemon's attacks. As long as you have the right energy, this tech does nothing. Yeah. You need to have the right energy to do it. And my understanding is, again, I haven't played in these 20 minutes, but my understanding is that ditto has become super popular because Gora business has become like one of the format defining cards, which is relatively. Different. I mean, Garvis was pretty good back then, but it wasn't like a format defining card. So Garbus for water color list. Does 20 average plus 10 more Demetry psychic energy in place. So it counts both sides. Oh. And ditto works because ditto also has a poker body that each energy on ditto provides any type of energy. So did, as long as it has a bunch of energy, it can essentially copy any attack and blades again Firestarters so you pair it up to really do anything. So ditto is really good against Corbus because it can one-shot Corbus and blaze against can't do that. Ditto is good against Rayquaza. GX is if other people play that because requires is weak to color this and denotes colorless and. It's also a pseudo consistency guard because there's so many decks that play strike and run done, sparse that if you start ditto, you would just get to copy they're striking run parks, which is really cool. So this card was never played before. Really. I, it might've been played like a little bit very fringe use but it's cool to see that Dex, the meta has essentially developed in the 17 years since this format. And probably a card that should have been played is, is actually seeing play now, which is really cool.
Brit:and I think too, it wasn't the main, the main way to play Corbus with Gardevoir that could have just attached energy from the deck. I think I'm noticing too that they're gorgeous techs and top eight, but one's with lantern and one's with Crobat and I'm not familiar with that.
Mike:the Gardevoir Crobat Gardevoir. Corbis deck was a deck not super popular. The most popular at the time was the Crobat Corbus Cobis. But this like stage one Corbus deck is, is relatively new that there was like stage one deck, but not really focused around Corvus. And this is very focused around Corbus. It's just like four, four Garbus and Tutu lantern line one Vanette to, yeah, that's cool.
Brent:I love this ditto card. I mean, the ditto ditto is absolutely fascinating. Like a, you would think. Any deck with energy acceleration would be trying to spend time, like trying to figure out if there a situation where it's useful, you know? But, but I feel like in in Pokemon historically, like decks that have attacks that copy your opponents attacks those, those, like Pokemon haven't found that much play because it's so like situational and dependent on your opponent, like playing the right Pokemon and stuff like that,
Mike:Right.
Brit:yeah, they're always used as like, they're always strangely useful as like tech Pokemon. Like there's always, like, there's always like, there's like a, there was that Keck Leon that you could copy anything and it would copy their type. And you can, you, you could use that. I remember I played that in my bronze on deck at worlds because I could copy mega Rayquaza. And it was just your answer to that. And I can think of lots of MuTu level X had kind of like, you know, like pirates ability basics. Couldn't hit it. And there's a lot that there is like, there is a wiggly Tufts. But you, you know, this was kind of a story of a lot of the SPDX like, what do you play a Mewtwo counter? And if you do, what is your view to counter potentially there is like a, no, it wasn't wiggly tough. It was a clear fable that could copy. And
Brent:yeah. the metronome attack.
Brit:Yeah. Right, right. And then there was, there was like a nine tails. I could also do it too, but
Brent:That was, that was like the best card from the whole evolution set.
Brit:Yeah, right.
Brent:thousands of dollars.
Brit:It's, just that's all it ever seemed to school for.
Mike:Yeah, real real quick. You reminded me. So we talked about your motto and Brett just mentioned the MuTu counters. I think I'd be remiss to not discuss one of the most brilliant deck decisions ever was by Yamato during that year. I think it was 2010 or 2009, 2009 worlds, I believe.
Brit:no, it was 10. It was employer.
Mike:And Every SP deck was faced with this decision. And Yamato said, okay, I'm going to play a one, one curlier curly. It did 60 damage or whatever enough damage to one shot at Mewtwo level X. But also I'm going to play a Gardevoir in my deck. Gardevoir the famous, Gardevoir the telepaths Gardevoir from secret wonders because Gardevoir is a broken card. So he ended up playing this one, one, one Gardevoir align in his luck, in his luck chomp. I, I believe it was in Lux jump SP mostly for the curlier, but also Gardevoir because it's a broken card. So just a really cool I think that's a really cool deck building story as well.
Brit:it has, I guess, an homage to finish that story at the very, the first battle rooms of the, of that following season. I think that because Gardevoir rotated, so you couldn't keep playing the Gardevoir. I played one, one, one Stormfront gang car in my, in my Lux chump. Just for fun. I got second at, at, at the tournament. That was back when you had top. Cut it tower it's too. It's a great story. Your motto, such a fixture of the early world. Lots of lots of very good stories about him. Just kind of at a grinded in multiple times, this was the winner of the first world championship. With magma obviously, but it has a top four and just some top 30 twos. And you know, this, this lie has Lux. Trump list was, it was just, it was really goofy outside of the one, one, one garden, or it played like an AB Saul, the secret wonders apps, all that just it was like a gotcha game. You discarded opponent card from your opponent's hand. And if you hit a trainer, you got to go again and stopped it too. You couldn't describe your opponent's whole hand, unfortunately, if it were training credits, but just let some weird, weird deck choices too. And that's just, I don't know, maybe to circle back to just You know, are, are very minor choices we make in our deck fit building from earlier, it's just sometimes that the right answer that world's winning, you know, deck, it's maybe goofy something that's going to get you laughed at. And, you know, naturally the best story there is the truth. The, sometimes the answers are just never obvious and sometimes the answers are, you know, require, you know, maybe just dramatic, but you have to go against the entire community and things like that. Like, I don't know, like I always just think, think more about that too. Seeing lists like you know, without Juniper and things like that. And John Roberts was always sort of made fun of for being a deck builder who didn't believe in playing Juniper and you know, just as time has passed, I think, you know, he's probably a hat that he was right. And some of these things that I see, I see more and more necklace sort of. With that in line. And just at times, that just sounds unheard of, you know, just such a staple of the game for years and years and years, Juniper and Sycamore. And now just research. So always played for, you got to see cards to win, but sometimes you just don't need them at all.
Brent:well, I mean, there's definitely been a Dex recently where, where they've said, you know discarding cards is too expensive. Like yeah, I think toward has played some decks where he's tried to you know, never, never play a Juniper because, you know, he needs all. these cards, you know, it's all about building hand size. Why would I ever do that? Yeah. When I went and looked at the 2004 results that it's amazing how many people have been playing for so long Kyle Kovich, which was the top 16 loss to drew. One seniors Sebastian crema lost in top four. Frank Diaz lost the key and eight in top 16
Mike:Oh, in, in seniors and
Brent:and seniors and 11, to 14. Love it. Love it. The death
Brit:I don't think I knew you NATO one, 2004, strangely. It seems like something I don't know, as a Pokemon historic TCG historian, or what have you. I feel like I should have known that.
Mike:Yeah. And he's like, now he's arguably the best Japanese player ever. Like Yamato had the crown for a long time. But in the last, you know, seven or eight years, you NEDA maybe has surpassed him,
Brit:yeah. Cause yeah, I didn't think even, I think this last world, so the one before that was like, I remember just seeing a Facebook post. It was like three. And your motto saying he wasn't going to be there. And it was like one of the first ones I think he had ever not attended just as a dad now and all that, I think Yeah. Yeah. As I'm blanking on the UDA, you to come in sooner. And he was sort of in the conversation too, because he did very well in 2012 after winning 2010. But he sort of hasn't been around in awhile either, but yeah, Shintaro, you know, stays, stays relevant, surprisingly, but that's always some of the two, or at least, especially with the younger divisions and say they never seem to show up ever again, but it's always, I mean, obviously the ghost it's just different with the Japanese, because they're so disconnected from just literally every other aspect, every other part of the game. So that it's always enjoyable to, and they just always bring something different, which I always just really look forward to.
Brent:I, you know, I, I was always told when, when my kids were starting out, that the Japanese juniors were much better because the way they do age divisions is different. So the juniors all had to play with the seniors, essentially. So, so the Japanese juniors are just like a little more battle-tested than the, like other juniors out there, because they've been playing with older kids in like bigger tournaments for so long,
Mike:yeah, that makes sense. Okay.
Brent:So Xander, Pero tweets, open question. What deck do you think is the best second format and why, what bad match-ups do accept and why? The like, like the only thing that really really jumped out to me was Jay Gearhard had a great, good answer, which was like for good players, it's Pikarom and for best players as ADT.
Mike:which I think is totally reasonable.
Brit:yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Especially to that. Well, w w we said earlier about just kind of the, the best picker on players, the patient one, that's just one of the hardest things to teach. I remember in my coaching experience, I was just like, always there my students, or what have you, we're always so eager and he's, you know, got to play my supporter for turn. And it's like, no, what you got let's think here for a second. What do, do we need anything else? That's turned. We don't, we just,
Brent:I have the Juniper this entire hand away. What are you talking about?
Brit:Right. And it's like, no, we all we have Boltund we win, we don't need to play any other cards. Right. Like, and so just, and that's definitely true, whereas like, that's just, it's really hard to figure that out. Or just to figure out when you do need to just sort of put the, you put your foot on the brake or what have you, but yeah, definitely. There's definitely, as you know, depending on where you are, if the game what deck, it might be best for you is going to be different than if you're. Toward or, I mean, and obviously Sanders such a great example of that too. Is I just, I can't, I I'll be shocked if I'm ever sort of up to par to play one of these controlled and Excel, like a real tournament, but maybe.
Brent:is a perfect example. Like he almost never has like, you know, professors, researchers in his lists because like, it's like, I'm all about getting cards into my hand. Why would I want to put all these cards into the discard? I was going to so much trouble, you know I think there's definitely a like understanding when you're playing or, or like building an archetype where you have a different strategy than just burn through your deck as best as you can is hard. And most people don't play Sandro sticks.
Mike:Yeah, that's true.
Brent:And bad players play ADP where you're like, yeah, I am going to do an a for every turn.
Mike:I feel like almost every single time I've watched the Zul stream. There's at least one game where he, like, my opponent did not need to play that. Crobat