The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast

Expanded, Weakness in the TCG, Pokemon OP!?!, Top 4 with Dragapult, Jolteon, Rock-Paper-Scissors in TCG History

October 07, 2021 Brent Halliburton Season 1 Episode 60
The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast
Expanded, Weakness in the TCG, Pokemon OP!?!, Top 4 with Dragapult, Jolteon, Rock-Paper-Scissors in TCG History
Transcript
Mike:

We can talk about the non Oop announcement. Like

Brit:

Yeah, no, your, your comment was so funny and look, cause at all, I always think, cause I had a similar spot and it was just behind. That was just like, there's just content creators going to content, create, you know, like they have, there has to be a video about everything there. Everything is newsworthy now. Like.

Mike:

Yeah. Brent and like, we have a group chat with like Brit and Luke Marsa and a couple of other people. And like, I see all these people posting on Twitter, like oh, huge news for Opie and whatnot. And I'm like, what? That, like this literally didn't say anything.

Brent:

Uh, I had exactly the same reaction.

Mike:

All right. Good.

Brent:

I mean, Yeah. Oh my God. Like, that's why I keep saying we can't be content creators. Cause it's like pressure to produce cotton.

Mike:

Yeah.

Brent:

Is just like makes my head spin. It literally makes my head spin, you know? I mean,

Mike:

So we can, we can give the jaded, uh, we're going to be the jaded content creators.

Brent:

oh my God. That so totally. Totally. All right. You guys ready?

Mike:

Plus David.

Brent:

Let's do it. Welcome to the Trashalanche the Brent Halliburton Brit bpybas Mike Fouchet. We took a week off we're back still. I'm still a little sick, so I'll cough periodically, but better than ever. A hundred percent attendance. Uh, what else should I talk about? I do want to talk about channel fireball for a second. We are sponsored by channel fireball and channel fireball has announced that they're kind of changing their thing. They're becoming, they're becoming a marketplace for cards. I think that that means the TCG player kind of one. have you guys ever sold cards via TCG?

Mike:

I have not. I've thought about it though.

Brit:

I bought my bot, like all, basically all of my recent card purchases.

Brent:

looked into selling via TCG player? Like what's involved in that, like,

Mike:

I haven't looked, I haven't looked into it too much. I've only really had discussions. Like I know, uh, Peter Kika sells a lot on there. I think Rahul sells a little bit, uh, well, Jenkins sells on there on, so like if I do ever want to do it, I'd talk to them first. Uh, but I know there's, I know there's like, there's, there's obviously some fees that you pay for each car that you sell. Um, so the only reason that I would do it is because I have so many old promo cards that I want to get rid of. Um, and so like, I might do it at some point when I have some time, but. Yeah. So I don't really know exactly what it entails, but so, so channel fireballs, turn it into a place where you can sell cards. Is that what you're

Brent:

Yeah, they're, they're building that there. I think so my impression is, although I don't think it's like completely live yet. They're transitioning to this kind of marketplace model, uh, um, which makes me think. So what I think, what is interesting to me about TCU players, they have the two ways you can either just like postcards and then mail them yourself, or you can send them your cards and they'll gonna Amazon prime it for you per se. Right? And like, I'll be interested to see what channel fireball does, but if a channel fireballs entry into Pokemon has been any indicator, they're probably going to have super competitive fees for sellers. And as a result, like pass those savings onto buyers too. And it will be really, really, really competitive with TCG player, from a pricing perspective. Uh, you know, it's probably going to be a really good, uh, they're a sponsor of the pod. If you use code the code trash, when you check out, I think we'll eventually get a couple of nickels, which would be super great. They told us that we don't drive that much traffic to their website because we're just a podcast. So go and use trash and then there'll be like, oh, it turns out we liked you more than we thought we did. Um, we like them and we're looking forward to competitive marketplaces to bring prices down for everybody. Uh, because Yeah. I feel like I know lots and lots of people that use TCG player and, you know, competition is good.

Brit:

No. I was just gonna say I haven't, I haven't used TCG player personally, like basically since COVID, but like I said, initially it was the main, the main way I bought all my cards for awhile and I personally never had any issues, but I am seeing more and more and more and more people just like having difficulties with bad sellers and things like that on TCG player. So like maybe that's some of the motivation behind channel fireball trying to like sees them in a similar cut of the market. Like there's like, I don't know. I don't understand these things sometimes, but like, just like seeing people get ripped off or just like, it's easy to just fudge, you know, the semantics between near meant and barely played or whatever. Like so many of the, the, the, the labels for the condition of a card or look roughly the same. You know, whether you're scamming or not, it seems easy to get right or wrong, but I'm not sure as a casual player, I would think it doesn't matter too much. I would think that this like, complaint about the quality of the card is probably more so if you're like collecting, buying, like high end stuff

Brent:

Yeah. You know, for me as somebody who's never been a collector, but always been a player, I feel like I'm the absolute worst judge of that stuff I'm like, so if this edX is warped, like that's still bringing pretty mad. Cause like they're all worked right.

Brit:

and I'm just like, well, I get a game loss. Yes or no.

Brent:

Yeah. exactly. Exactly. This a spec is shaped like a U, but like that's fine. Right? Like That's how it beat.

Brit:

Yeah. That's what I, I feel like I need to do more than that. Not necessarily with. The cards themselves, but just like slaves, I have I've run into like a lot of like weird. Like I got one other regionals I played recently. It was like a frustrating, like I had th they made me buy new sleeves and then I, and then I got a, like a game loss or a prize penalty when I got randomly deck checked for these new sleeves, because that just like, then, then the, even, you know, within the same color, same brand, there's still like printing in consistencies and me being a fool, then didn't check close enough. And I just, I just like before every tournament now, or dislike, try to find a judge and be like, please just look at my deck, please. Just give me, give me the thumbs up already. Like I just, I, it just keeps happening. It feels like.

Brent:

Five star review update guys kind Fon writes in the best Pokemon podcasts, been loving, listening to the pod on my way to, and from my locals, I'd be interested to see more expanded talk on the show. Let me start by saying kind fawn. We appreciate the review. We've been complaining for several weeks. You deliver the goods kind. Font is the best. All you, other people that could have been you.

Mike:

maybe that since the drought, maybe we will start, maybe we'll start coming in now

Brent:

Yeah. Get on the kind phone, train people.

Mike:

as for expanded. I don't know, man, like once they ban a ton of guards, we can talk about it more. I mean, I did see like the Sunday opening was expanded this past weekend. Um, what, what one? It was like,

Brit:

dragon deck has been. I don't play any expanded, but I do just pay attention. And this is always hard for me to know how good these decks are or how much of them are just like the flavors of the month. Because from what I can tell from these online expanded events recently, there's just been, it's been a lot of Dragonite, which is essentially if I understand it correctly, it's just a more efficient, uh, Tina chump. It's a two price Tina chump that doesn't require Roxy the sort of whole Roxy package. If I, if I'm, if I'm correct. Um, as well as a, there's a, there's like a bulk around a deck that goes well with bell canyon. Um, the Volcker on a V and I've, I've seen a good, a good chunk of that as well, but like, And my question is, you know, not knowing any very much beyond these points is like, are these decks good? Are these decks like beating control? And I know in some of these top aides, like I do see control making it and things like that. So I suppose the answer is maybe yes. Um, but I just, I don't have enough information and it's always so hard for me to tell with expanded players, like, is it good? Do you, are you playing expanded because it's good? Are you playing expanded because it's different. And that's always hard for me to parse, but I would love to know more. So at some point, maybe once we have with, um, a more concrete, like organized play schedule and we were confirmed that we'll have to learn expanded for regionals and things like that. They'll, there'll be more of an incentive to be practicing it and figuring it out more.

Brent:

Yeah, all It takes is an expanded regional, but I saw Shacklock top aided the Sunday open.

Mike:

It did Dan I'm looking at it now. Yeah. Shock. Like topic shot clocks have faded off. Um, so the winter was like a Vileplume deciduous wide deck. Um, so that's like kind of controlled, but not really. Right. Um, so kinda controllers, but then the other three, top four were all attacking decks. So as the ADP Dragonite, uh, like a Mewtwo, we vile dark deck and a colossal, which is pretty interesting. And then like Peak around mad party and another Dragonite rounded out the top eight. So control did. Okay. I don't, I don't know if you guys consider the Vileplume control or not. It's a pretty interesting list though. That one it's got like one deciduous GX. It's got one, a blockade executor.

Brent:

that's what I was going to say. The blockade executor. is the spice for me.

Mike:

Yeah, that's cool.

Brent:

I'm always down to blockade somebody.

Mike:

Yeah. The shock, the shock Douglas is pretty cool. Scoop up net. It was a nice addition. I mean, we've talked about that a little bit and pony was a kind of a nice addition too. Cause you can buy one gladi on one puny puny. Oh no. Piano is the surgery deck for two cards and discard your hand. Oh, that's cool. Actually, I didn't even think of that because you do that with tropical beach. That's

Brit:

yeah, it looks really good.

Brent:

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Uh, I mean, it's hard to imagine people not like it. I guess what's interesting is, as you said, it's nice to see, not control, like piling it at the top. Although I assume like blockade Vileplume is a thing, like I assume he did a lot of controlling rounds playing Vileplume Vileplume I love it. And there was a ninth place, a Snorlax list. So like they're there, but, uh, yeah, the more expanded, I mean, I had the problem with expanded is it's like, you know, you, you know, after like turn to, who's gonna win 90% of the time. I feel like right

Mike:

That's true. I saw Pablo tweet yet today or yesterday, whereas like standard games last four to five turns, expanded games last two to three turns.

Brent:

Yeah. Yeah. That's just, that's just the real.

Mike:

Yeah.

Brent:

And they have to figure out a way to try to slow down the format. But I think the whole point is you have access to these cards that have powerful effects. You're going to be able to, you're going to use them. So you're going to go fast. Cause like that's, that's an attribute of power

Mike:

Right.

Brent:

expanded. There's always going to be faster than standard. And I think fast is probably an attribute that turns people off from, from the games. Cause.

Brit:

And it's even less so like it, their turn wise it's fast, but time-wise, it's not necessarily fast because of the sort of sheer nonsense that comes along with the turbo trainer decks that. Draw a lot of cards and so on. So like some of, some of these decks, which I guess now that I'm thinking about it, there's not a whole lot of these from what I can tell rocking in the, um, Medicaid right now. Like there's no, there's not a lot of like sky field shaman, decks, night, battle, compressor night marshy type stuff. But even, even still, like a lot of these decks are just so trainer focused because of how good, you know, and you have, you, you have like 10 years of trainers. Like it's not going to be hard to find like a, an easy way to make your deck run well. And that just like the more cards you have to play the longer your turn is going to be. So sometimes even if you maybe only play one to DNA, let's say like, still have like a really solid like sequencing first, turn that for me, that's always the worst part. Or I just have always just loved getting stumped by nightmarish because it just, it just takes so long. Sometimes even if you don't take a prize.

Brent:

All right. Let's, let's jump into it. The first question I had for you guys is I, I, I had put out to the Reddit Pokemon channel. Are there questions that we should have answer on the pod? And the, the best question we got was is weakness done completely wrong? And I feel like the answer to that is yes. And maybe there maybe the way they phrased it was talk about weakness, summon, how it seems overpowered. And my reaction is like, weakness has done completely wrong because it makes like the typing just virtually everything in and I match up.

Mike:

And it wasn't like this always, there was a block of cards for those of you that don't know the time it was diamond and Pearl Brent, I'm going to pro cards. Yeah. I'm going to Pearl where some cards had times to weakness, but the vast majority had plus X where X was either 10, 20, 30. I don't know if there's any plus forties. Um,

Brit:

No, I don't think so. It usually scaled, um, with, so it's at the basics had 10 and then, so, and then stage two is, would have the 30 weakness usually did I think you're right, but I'm trying to remember what was it just like the, the early level XIS that still had times to weakness,

Mike:

Yeah, I think so. So like they could very easily do something like that and, you know, scale it up based on the HP that we have now. Like even if weakness was plus a hundred, that'd be way better than times two. Like there's not that many things. There are things obviously that do like 220 damage, but the consistency of weakness, one shotting stuff, um, it just requires so much more if you have to do two 20 versus like one 60, so they could very easily make it plus something again. And that would be pretty nice.

Brent:

Yeah.

Brit:

what, just sort of like my, the way I would have taken this question is maybe less so with the numbers and just kind of like what what's all going on with like the new type crunch, you know, no more fairy type wear subsuming, dark tie or out like those types with dark now and things like that. Um, and for me, that it's for that is wrong and like, it's just, I think just so confusing. Um, I don't know, like, I'm always very, just like, even when it, like, even when it didn't necessarily work, like in the past, there's even still sometimes these instances where like, because you know, like raw ground and fighting, we're all in one type. There are these, there was instances where it didn't work, but I just think it's more confusing now than it was before. And you know, if you're in, if the intention was to simplify it, I remember, you know, I think that's a lot, a big part of the reason why like fairy type doesn't exist anymore is because it was just in this like precarious position where like, didn't really do a lot. And it was just like added contusion. But like now I just think it's just as confusing, if not more confusing, like the whole single strike deck or like every dark Pokemon that is a single strike Pokemon is like weak to grass. And that's like this weird. Catch for like bug types. And that's just like that. Usually hasn't been, you know, the fact, like I remember talking with Colin about this and he didn't even like, know that that was a thing didn't even understand that like bub types are super effective against dark Pokemon and that their grass now, like it's, it's so confusing. Like it would, I just, maybe that's just like the boomer old player and me talking like, but I do think it made more sense before. And I do think like, I don't know, like I'm his fairy type and don't, don't think there would be really any difference if we had fairy type now, like, even if it didn't hit for weakness on anything necessarily, like, it's just like a different color and so on.

Brent:

Yeah. I have no problem with very tight. I guess what's interesting. There are a lot of ways you could potentially think about the weakness problem. If you really wanted to work on it, like you could, you could say, uh, something that's weak, like you roll a die. And like, if it's, you know, five or six, it does double damage. If it's three or four, it does, you know, uh, 50% more and one or two, it does 25% more or 0% more, something like that. Like you can do something weird where you, uh, you know, you don't guarantee that you just like automatically lose and you don't guarantee that you automatically win.

Mike:

Right.

Brent:

Um,

Mike:

Even like 1.5 times, like would be, I mean, that's like a harder calculation to do so it could take away the simplicity of the game, but like, that would be more fair as well.

Brent:

right, right.

Mike:

I liked the thing about the diamond and Pearl thing that I liked as well was the scaling that like Brit mentioned, like different Pokemon should have different amounts that we can assist the strongest Pokemon cards in the game should have more weakness than a medium parallel card that makes, that makes sense to me.

Brent:

That's an interesting idea.

Brit:

Yeah, I've seen, I've seen the idea and I think it's definitely where I would think to address the problem. And at least I'm trying to help, um, non rule box Pokemon is that I think you, you should, you should flex it in that way. Like, I guess this probably isn't enough to make. I mean, some of them are good, like Inteleon of course. But, um, like I don't think this would change the stage twos viability like at large, but like, if there is a world where just, if you're just like always took like triple weakness or something on your VMax or there's something like that, or if they had double cause to see that, then the problem is just that the stage two cards, there's just not well-designed enough. Like they still are just be like lacking in damage or, but just like need too much for it to be like a viable strategy. But I think that's definitely like where I would start trying to move things if we need, if we want to exist in a world, exists in a Meta game where like both like any given stage two in any given VMax or like probably at least there's a, there's a decent chance that there'll be viable. It might be different tiers of like mitigating viability. But I think like just giving them more support. And so like the weakness seems like the best place to start and just like keeping times to weakness, maybe even more potentially. And then going back to diamond and Pearl, um, like scaling 10, 20, 30, seems like a good place for me.

Brent:

As I refined my thinking about this, like I think one of the things that jumps out to me is I think everybody's okay with the idea of playing a deck that has an auto loss. But just knowing that like every decks auto loss is essentially about typing, that's sucks. Like that's lame design. Right,

Mike:

it is. I actually didn't think about that idea. Like I was only thinking about scaling weakness down, but scaling weakness up also has validity to it to cause. 'cause like you said it kind of maybe like if VMax has had three times weakness, they wouldn't be the only thing in the format

Brent:

right. Right.

Mike:

that that's cool.

Brent:

And, and I liked, and I liked Brett's idea of like having like a, you could have a rule box element to it too. Right. Uh, you know, I think there there's a lot of ways you could make it more complicated that would make it a more interesting and more nuanced and more scalable.

Mike:

Yeah.

Brent:

So the, the other, the other kind of related question that I wanted to ask you guys, is a jig. Gearhart had a tweet where you said, is it bad that our format is not Japan's format? I kind of wish we were playing a real format. Blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah but like, my reaction was like, I thought it was kind of an interesting question where, I mean, I assumed Japan designs, the sets and the cards and things. Cause like they have a vision of a format and we just do a different format.

Mike:

Right.

Brit:

Mean, I've always found the disconnect to be confusing. I don't like so much of it, at least how I understand it. Initially it exists because of the, just time differential, it takes to like translate the cards and things like that. And so Japan just like gets the cards faster, but like a, I don't think it would be. And like, maybe it's just not worth the money. Like surely they've thought about having like worldwide simultaneous releases. Um, and you know, I'm sure there's a reason why they don't, but like I've never understood why we don't do that. And I've also understood. Yeah. And the, you know, this is, um, like always the case, right? Like this, his, his tweet is not, you know, only speaking to current events like Japan is almost always on a different format. Usually for the whole year. Usually they come to worlds and have to learn something they haven't played at all. I guess this is a question I don't have an answer to, but like do cause um, who's like who determines the different format? Is it, is it TV? Is it just CPCI? Do they work with like, um, creatures or research labs, whatever the, the name of the people that actually make the cards, do they, do they collaborate and decide together? Um, cause I don't, I don't know. Um, but I do know in terms of like what T PCI does, um, they, there is constant communication between the two. They do work together often. So I would think that if that's the case, then. There's probably they TPC. I probably doesn't just decide what the format is. I would, I would think that there's, there's collaboration between the two. Um, but I, I truly have no idea. That's just kind of some, some logic I've, I've strung together. Um, but yeah.

Mike:

Yeah, I don't have too much to add. I mean, I do think that Japan probably thinks about the formats a little bit more than like DPCI does, but don't really agree with this tweet that like, I wish we were playing a quote unquote real format. Like, I mean, for sure, like the Japanese know that eventually these cards are going to be gone and they have also designed it for the sword and shield on formats. Not like they're not thinking about that as well. They just happen to be playing this format a little bit longer or the previous format a little bit longer than we are.

Brit:

I mean, I would, this is a silly look at just a strange argument because you're, you know, it's cash behind real. Right. And so like, who's the gear and you're just sort of deciding that our formats aren't real. Like why though, just because they're not Japanese. Well, like newsflash, they're never Japanese. So have we never played a real format

Mike:

Right. Great.

Brit:

Um, but yeah, I, I don't, I don't get it either. Other than it, you know, for me, I would take it as like, it is, uh, a good point about the disconnect between us and the Japanese game. But, uh, beyond that, I just, I read it as a, like a standard bad tweet, you know, like just the usual sentiment.

Mike:

And the other thing too, is that like you could argue that the tournament structure itself is so different there that even if we're playing the same format, it's still a different format, you know?

Brit:

Right. Yeah, that's a really good point too. And also something too that I think does factor in, um, to the, the formats that, um, Japanese play is the fact that their tournaments are to see it's massive, massive, massive, um, things. And I know, I can't tell these, these more recent events, which some of them, I do think you have to like, have earned an invite to. So maybe that's why they, they look a little more like our events, but at least historically in the past, like what it would take to qualify for nationals and worlds, where it was just ridiculous. Like you would, if you were playing these just like giant thousand person, best of one tournament for you to like stand in line the whole time. And like, if you're in the, in line at the, in the wrong place at the wrong time, you can potentially just like, not qualify, not move on to date too, because you didn't get enough games than in time. And that was not necessarily your fault. It was just like a symptom of the way that the lines and stuff worked. And even too, like, there are other Japanese formats too, like the, the palace format, like, is that a real format? Should we just be playing that one too? Like, I don't know.

Mike:

I saw you also reminded me. I saw Franco I think tweet the other day that like, there's an, I know they just had a big Japanese event, but there's another one upcoming in a few weeks and he predicts that you basically have to go nine oh and Swiss to guarantee to make top 16, like half of the half of the eight ones are going to miss and they played best of one in these Swiss rounds. So like completely diff like it has the potential to be a completely different metagame if you have to build your deck to go nine oh, invest of one Swiss versus like six to one in a best of three. Like those are very different games.

Brent:

I don't even know like what you do. And I that's

Mike:

Yeah, yeah.

Brent:

like to the point of our earlier discussion, like, you know, why, like, what the heck are you going to play that? Like, you're like this deck does not lose, whereas the other decks do lose. So I'll play this one. The best of one, they all lose.

Mike:

yeah,

Brent:

All right. Let's talk about before we, before we jump into actually talking about cards, should we talk about the big Pokemon announcement?

Mike:

Hi. Yes. The big announcement. And announcement, uh, like it all the same information that we've had for awhile. Maybe the, what do we get additionally, that we know that you I see is happening in April and Pokemon go is added to the circuit. I think those are the only two new pieces of information that sound right.

Brent:

Yeah, that, that, that is what stood out to me now. Oh, and like, and then, like, you won't win stipends at the CYC.

Mike:

Ah, yes.

Brent:

Uh,

Mike:

that they're giving us an opinion, but it's not much of an update.

Brent:

I did not really understand what the purpose of the announcement was because it didn't seem to advance anything except that somebody like Pablo who's super good at Pokemon go is like, oh, do I have to make the hard decision now? I dunno.

Brit:

Yeah. I mean, I, I think that's, I mean, that's the only reason why was to, to let us know or that Pokemon go players now that like, there's finally a reason to take your game. Seriously. I guess, like, I wonder how much of that is like financially motivated. Do they need, do they need more money? Do they need more seats and tournaments? Is that why we're bringing them in? Because to my understanding, like there aren't. Tournaments, like there have never been tournaments for PokemonGo. I know there are like rankings and things like that, but am I wrong? Are there consistent like PVP events? Like, cause I remember Travis, Travis nonetheless plays or did play somewhat seriously. And I know he was on a leaderboard at, at, at one point in one at one point in time. Um, but yeah, I just don't understand. Don't understand it at a competitive level, like at all. Um,

Brent:

So at the last Collinsville regional, uh, um, we shared a hotel room with Pablo and when we picked Pablo up from the airport, he said that he had just flown in from a tournament that Niantic could float him to, to, to play PVP PokemonGo. So there is something like that. Either, Niantic is wanting to try to go in with the Pokemon guys because Pokemon knows how to run big tournaments. Or if they're just trying to get more on my antics money, maybe, uh, I mean, there could be a bunch of like businessy things driving it, or maybe they just say that there's a lot of people playing Pokemon go. We should try and like pull them into the competitive community in some way.

Mike:

Yeah. I mean, it's cool. I mean that, like, that's a cool addition, but in terms of TCG, there's not really any news here, in my opinion.

Brit:

I mean, I guess there's there's news. They'll tell us about championship points before too long.

Mike:

I guess it's good. Like, they've reaffirmed, like, I guess like the last month or two, we've kind of been questioning, like they made this announcement, but nothing's come out. Like, are we actually doing this? And they've reaffirmed that, which is cool.

Brent:

Yeah. All right. So here, here's the question I should really ask you guys projecting ahead. It seems like they're, they might announce that there's events in Europe and Asia before they announced that there's events in the states will, will the top 16 guys all get on planes and start flying to Europe for event. Like if they announced a regional schedule in the UK, will they be like Jose Marrero has got the goat.

Brit:

I mean, it probably depends on the, what the, the various countries requirements are because a lot of places, I don't actually really have a sense of what Europe does, but like, I, I believe in like Canada, you have to quarantine for like two weeks and stuff when you come back and things like that. So I imagine that will be a factor. I imagine, like Pokemon could also just say, don't like, please, please stay in your home region or something like that. Um, But, yeah, that's a good question. I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, a lot of it probably is going to be financially motivated or how, like, how expensive is it to like fly right now? Is it cheap? Is it not? I don't have a clue, but like that could be a factor. I don't know if flights are at a, at a good point yet. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, it's definitely the like, like, you know, someone like Raul who is just like, obviously very clearly friends with like a good chunk of European players. Like I would think because it's like half a social thing and obviously you're going to Europe kind of a big deal. Um, people like that, I imagine it'll travel, um, or will, if they can adapt, it will be like a lot, but I, I, I could be, I could be wrong.

Mike:

Yeah, I agree. That sounds right to me.

Brent:

how many, uh, should we take, should we take a bet on how many, like top 16 players will go to the first regional, if it's in the UK?

Mike:

I'm going to say four. I don't think it's going to be like a ton, but I could see a couple of go.

Brit:

maybe, maybe a lot of it is just will actually depend on what, what, what it's going to take to qualify for worlds with these like CP benchmarks. Like, is there even a top 16 anymore? Like AZ, how players who already have 500 plus points? Like, do they really have a, are they given a real reason to play or should they just like stay at home and go to worlds? Like I, especially, you know, given, given that they stated that it's going to be a, it's going to be pretty short and that stipends aren't going to be the same, I would guess. I would guess that there's probably, there's probably no reason to be a grinder anymore. If you have your points, like, unless you just like are purely after the cash prizes. Um, which if you are, it's just, you probably can't make your money back up. So like that we'll see.

Mike:

The other thing, the other thing is. I saw will Jenkins in Bokhari at the, uh, the New Jersey event, like couple of months ago. Right. And both of them haven't played almost. I mean, they played like a little bit here and there, but like, they haven't really played for the past year and a half. And I don't think they really have, and they were both like top five or something like that in the rankings. And they don't really have an intention of going back to grinding. Um, so like the people that were top 16 might not be the same people that want to grind now. So I don't know how that will affect things as well.

Brent:

Let's talk about actual Pokemon games. Mikey, you had a, you had a good run, you know,

Mike:

It did. Um, I played Dragapult, it seemed like a pretty good deck. I mean, I wanted to play jolt Deon at the time. Cause that seems like really up my alley kind of like spread it spread type of deck. Um, but, uh, at the time Dragapult were, I mean, Joel dealings were very expensive. Um, so I decided to play Dragapult I hadn't played ladder or a tournament in like two weeks or two and a half weeks before that, but I kind of wanted to play. So I just picked up a Dragapult list that did well a couple of nights before and yeah, I made top four at the chill event, which was pretty cool. Um, I ended up losing two. Uh, what do I lose too? Oh yeah. I lost a ice Rider, sweet kid in top four, three, very like non games. Like I won one game where he drew terrible in both the games that I lost. Um, hydro terrible. So kind of anti-climactic finish, but, um, yeah, it was fun nonetheless,

Brit:

I'm curious as to fly Dragapult I got just like, it's a deck. I don't, I mean, I guess I do understand the raw power of it being a Peak deck, um, as well as playing for Marnie, but, um, it's a, it's a deck. It's a deck. I look out on the meta game and I don't, it just seems, um, The damage of seems too low, you know, especially compared to jolting on another spread option. Um, so I'm, I'm curious as to why, you know, maybe it was just, you had the cards for it and got these jolts Leon's later. Um,

Mike:

Yeah. I mean, that's like part of the reason why, but so like Dragapult really is really good against other Inteleon decks. Um, I think there's been a little bit more of a movement to play the 70 HP Sabal in the last week. Um, but even last week, chill, there was not that many people play in 70 HP solvable. And let's see. So in my 14 Swiss round, I played against 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 out of my 14 rounds. My opponents played Inteleon and like, so when you're taking. Pretty easy prizes, ensembles or dials. You're not only getting free prizes, but you're also taking away their consistency. So I think that's like a really large part of what makes Dragapult so good. Um, is that you're just like the best Inteleon deck against other Inteleon decks. The only other, I think you're better than jolty. Aren't like, you're, you're better than jolty on because jolty on requires, um, the zigs. I mean, I guess you also requires execution, but as the game progresses, you, you're just more flexible with your spreading damage, I think. Um, so like you can do 50 to a Sabal, even if you don't have this execution early on and it forces them if they don't drop off the Jersey. Even if they do involve the drizzle drizzle, you get to kill the next turn. And if they don't have opted out and you get to put just one extra counter and then put other things somewhere else. So it's a little bit more effective in that sense. Uh, you also have the typing against, um, the Urshifu decks, which is also really good. That's a little bit of a reason with some reasons why.

Brent:

So, so it looks like you lost to a sweet Coon, Luda, colo, and two ice writers. How does the ice Rider up work?

Mike:

So like I said, the top, the top four game was just weed. We each dead drew a bunch of times. I don't really remember my other loss. It was the very first round of the event. Um, it's a little bit closer than the other ones than the other Inteleon decks because they're just so aggressive. Um, like Urshifu Leafeon, um, there's your food Leafeon even just straight sweet Kuhn jolty on they can't one shot your Dragapult V very easily or at all, some most, most times. So like they don't put, they're not putting a ton of pressure on you in the first on the second turn, but ice rider does, if you miss a beat on the first or second turn ice rider will just kill your V and then you lose the game pretty much. and so that's pretty much, I think what happened, like even the games that I didn't draw well, that's why I lost. And maybe against another deck I could have afforded getting, you know, getting attacked on the second turn, but I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have gotten knocked out. Um, and Reihan is really good, but it only goes so far. It's not going to. It's not going to win you. That match up. If you're only Dragapult gets knocked out. Like, like if I go second against nice Rider and they turn to knock out my one, Dragapult V you lose the game. There's no way to win from there.

Brent:

Fair enough.

Mike:

Uh, and I lost it this weekend. Lucario sweet. This weekend matchup seems good overall. Um, I did lose the one game. I think when you play that match up, you have to target down the low Tad's instead of that, instead of the sabals. Cause that's really how, um, how you can lose if a Dragapult BMX gets one shot at any point, it can be kinda tough. So if you just target down the load Tad's I think you're okay.

Brit:

And then presumably the scoop too dark. I don't think there's, I don't think dark is all that pertinent. There's just splashes of it here and there and still beyond. And Urshifu occasionally, is that just too much? No matter what.

Mike:

Um, wait, so the, the dark, the dark deck, I only, yeah, I only putting into one and I did beat it, but that felt like a fluke. It seems definitely seems like a bad matchup. I beat it because I was able to just kill the, uh, like their only hound or go, like they went second. I went first. I was able to kill their one hound or delayed the, um, the Umbrian attack. And so therefore I was able to kind of just win from there,

Brent:

So is my perspective on single strikes still, just like, you know, uh, they did too many pieces to get their hound, dooms up, kill all their hound dooms and they lose like, or, or is, is the, is our, is our current pod take more nuanced than that.

Mike:

It's pretty much. I mean, that's my opinion. It's like, if you, if you run decently, well, it's a solid deck, but there's just a lot of pieces to it.

Brit:

Yeah, just single strike seems bad to me. Oh yeah. All these lists. I see. Like, um, It's just because of how much you have to fit like three stage ones. Right. Uh, while also having to play like some like other core identity cards, like you've got your energy, which requires the earn and you also might be playing stadia and this for so many cards. And like, anytime I see a list that plays like one switch or something like that, and I just get, it just gets bodied by Leafeon. Um, because of these, these retreat issues, not having, having to commit so much space for these other parts that you don't have, uh, kind of other usual staples of. You know, that make up a consistent deck. Um, uh, and it's so expensive to like, it's just like fine. I haven't played it at all, obviously, but I'm just like, other than, other than having like the good, the fighting typing occasionally when it's pertinent and, um, you know, not having to worry about decidua or this new deck of Sanders that he posted this week. I don't know if either of you saw it it's a core of a night deck, but it hates that. It just like it's, it's it? I think like the TLDR is explanation is just like, it's probably bad because it loses to single strike something to that effect, or at least like, it can't be good. As long as single strike has hazard that pertinent place in the metagame.

Brent:

Yeah. Like, I mean, Umbria Remax seems really, really good, but when people say like, oh, we have this deck that didn't have a good place in the Meta, but when I add these six cards in a stage, one line, it'll like, make it better.

Mike:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like a good, it's a good meta call. I think it's like pretty good against, um, are you going against other decks? It's just not like super consistent, but it has been like perf like I think in, from like a data perspective Dragapult and single strike are like the two best performing deck. So it got to say like, it's been, it's done well. Um, the other deck that I am still so confused as to why it's good is a Leafeon like every time I play against it, I'm like, this is terrible. Like why? I don't understand. I beat it twice as Dragapult very easily. Maybe it's the decks that I'm playing that are just good against it. I don't know, but like play it against it twice with Dragapult matchup felt very good for us. Um, you just. between like your spread damage of killing their stuff. Like their Leafeon is not doing that much more than your, like one 30, like, so just felt very strange that matchup. And now that I have started playing jolty on a little bit, that matchup is also extremely good for Jilt Dylan. Cause you have free retreat. So their damage output is like one 20. If they have the stadium out, which is terrible. So I don't know, like Leafeon still just doesn't seem very strong to me. Um, and that's something else that I realized as I was playing this tournament and subsequent games since then.

Brent:

So, so, uh, the plan now is to start playing jolty on.

Mike:

Yeah. I've been playing on ladder. I tried playing in a, an event last night, two nights ago and it did not go well. Got paired against, I only played two or three rounds and I had lost, I played three rounds and I lost twice. I don't remember one of the losses, but one of the losses was against one of the Sylveon decks that played a one-on-one rapid strike and they just got it out, turned to, I was like, okay. All right, you got it. Good job. You got your one, one line out that played six stage one lines.

Brent:

Oh, Yeah, Yeah. I, I, so I'm looking at your performance in Sonny's weekly, number 19 and the, the Leafeon new Brit beat round one. goes, oh, one. drop,

Mike:

Um,

Brent:

uh, you, you, you hit your hand him the, the business, and then he's like, this is terrible.

Mike:

yeah, yeah, yeah. And then yeah, so planning is, oh, I played against, uh, the Shadow Rider, right? Shadow Rider matchup. I think I just didn't play it very well. I think I could have won that game. Um, yeah, I just didn't play the, I didn't. I did some things wrong. I think I should. Like I saved, I saved a path Marnie turn to like the very last turn, but I think I could have done it two terms in a row. And like maybe if he draws out of the first one and the second one sticks, I think I also like mismanaged where I placed damage a little bit. So that was, that was more of a learning experience, but I would like to try gel Deon again, it seems pretty, it's pretty fun. Um, and pretty strong, the fact that it has, uh, access to the tool, the elemental badge makes it a little bit easier to stream attacks then, uh, then Dragapult does, in my opinion.

Brent:

Yeah. I mean, the fact that you go a one, two drop and you're like, I'm gonna keep playing this deck that you must've seen something there that made you say this is, this is actually pretty good.

Mike:

Yeah. I think there's also a little bit more room to mess around with that list. I think the Dragapult list. Pretty much it, like, you're not, I see people running, crushing hammers and Dragapult now. And, uh, that seems pretty bad. Like, there's just so many cards that you want in the list. Um, it's just better to like, do your own thing, but the joint dealing list, I feel like can be tweaked. Um, and I've seen like a lot of like the same, like 55 cards, but the last like four or five cards have been changed a lot. So there's there's room to optimize that.

Brent:

I definitely feel like this week has been the week for people to complain about putting crushing hammers index.

Mike:

Yeah. It's not that good right now because your number is not very good right now. So I don't know why people are playing it just by fan of waves. There's enough special energy to like, if you want to play energy removal, just play the guarantee. Fan of waste.

Brent:

Yeah. But I feel like when, when people tweet about how people shouldn't put crushing hammer and their deck they're bad, that's, that's all, those are all salt tweets, right?

Mike:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it also fuels people to act, play it too.

Brit:

I see the, I feel like I see the crushing hammer, bad tweets, like most consistently from people who don't play. I just like, I don't get a, I don't understand this, like need to have opinions when you're not like actively involved. It's always very strange to me. People would chime in on that will be the first to have a word on, on the drama of the day on anything. But like beyond that, they just like, they're just social media people and not actually like playing and testing and so on, but like equally too, like I just see that, especially with crushing hammer. You know, sometimes it's presented, you know, crushing him or bad with the indication that it's like, it's always a bad card and that it's never been a good card and that's just like patently false. Like it, it, it is a good, a good card in the right medic games. And I, I think that people, you know, the, the, the, the argument that it's just like 50% of the time, it does nothing, therefore it's bad. Like that's a bad argument there. It gets far more nuance than that. Of course. Um, but anyways, it's, it's, uh, such a particular car and kind of, similarly, I know I've said this before about gusta wound and gust of wind effects is that people are just like, we should ban hammers. You know, it kind of, it at one point during quarantine, there is like in the tournaments that didn't allow ADP, there is seemingly active community discourse around whether or not to ban hammers. And, um, you know, for me, it's just this, like, this card has existed since based that it's like it's in the game. Like it or not. Um, and I don't think that's necessarily good or bad. And like, of course it's frustrating to lose a game where your opponent goes four for four on flips and you would've won the game with a single tails like that stinks. But as I always say, I think about variants, like that's also part of what makes the game too, isn't it? Um, I don't know. I don't, I don't understand the frustrations beyond like the anecdotes. It's just like, it's a card play at or not.

Brent:

Speaking of actually playing games, Brit, it sounded like you had the chance to actually do some real actual testing with cards.

Brit:

I did, um, both online and in person. So I'm online. I even though the on person stuff will more just be a fun little story. It wasn't like an event or anything like that, but I do have some evolving skies cards. Now online, I've mostly been playing ice Rider, like tapes. I sprayed her list because it only played, it plays one Sui Coon, and that was kind of the only thing I needed, um, for it. And I, I was, I started with probably my favorite deck of the last format, even though I don't think it was as good as Shadow Rider or tofu. Um, and it just seemed like a good place to start. So I, I guess I started talking to him and just, you know, I've been out of the game for a month or so, not playing and just trying to get his argument, like why this over, the more heavy, the more, um, the more so he couldn't focus list. And I thought his, I thought his logic was good. You know, a lot of it is that okay. just, can't be one shot and that's, that's just kind of why I think Sui, Coon can fail a lot of the time. Is that similarly to the way that like utilization index play, like Zacian is really good, but if you get too knocked out and like consecutive turns, like there's probably no hope for you unless for the most part. Um, and so it's just, I don't think, like, I do think it's probably like a pretty mid tier deck after playing it for a while. It does not feel super great in a lot of match-ups. It's close. Like it's, I wouldn't say it has a lot of 50, 50 is I would probably be, I would probably be happier to say, like, it has a lot of 45, 55 or something like that, which big things, things to cards like Drew's island. Inteleon like those aren't bad odds to have. If you think you can out pick your opponent on the right trainer, picks a timer too. Like you can probably win some games. And again, you never know what's going to happen with, with Marnie and things like that. Um, But I'm not sure where I'll go from there. I've maybe just like Mikey. I think jolty on is, is the Eve I think seems the best by quite a bit. Um, I am, I do have more positive thoughts on Leafeon or at least, um, haven't played much with it. I guess what I would say is that I just like, I, I trust the people that tell me it's good or telling me that it's like, it deserves to be where it is on the tier list. Um, a little bit like an a, but I, I don't think it's as, I don't think it's a top deck or like the top deck. That's definitely good. Um, I'm curious about these, like the, they occasionally I know, I know Celia, Luke played it and I guess what is the last chill event for awhile last night? There's like, you can play a porion too with like a zero or a, um, it seems interesting to me, I, I do think outside of like maybe having just a bad weakness of the they poorly on card has always struck me as being pretty good. Um, And I guess to one thing I'm just like not surprised whatsoever at all. Is that just the decline of rosacea index? I just, I knew this. I knew this couldn't be good. I just said, there's no way this card is as good as the VMax is. Have you played with this part? It's usually the, like, it's only good with like ADP or, um, these other cards that, that make it, do something extra that make it, you know, with Lucario make it harder to kill and things like that. It's not, it's frustrating as a main attacker sometimes to just like, it's a lot of energy and then you also have to deal with the retreating and I just think it ends up being. Just slower. It takes so much more, even as a basic. So like outside of the turns where you spike your turn one Intrepid sword, it's just, it feels bad, you know, especially compared to any of the EVs with the elemental badge and things like that, just like thanks to you're just cheating, cheating out your energy requirements in a way that is so much more effective. Um, and then, so I just, like, I see it at the bottom of, I think it was like number 10 on one of these top tens I was seeing this week and I was just like, yes, finally, I'm glad we stopped playing this card. Um,

Mike:

Yeah.

Brit:

maybe it'll turn back up.

Mike:

Yeah. It's just like awkward because before you could feasibly win with like three attacks of Dacian maybe killing three V's or something like that. But now you're basically forced to K O T V is like, two-shot two V maxes and your stations are just getting one shot by most things. Or at least with the spread against the spread stuff, they ended up taking four prizes in a turn at some point. So, yeah, I agree. It's just not good enough to keep up, which is super insane to think of, right. Because you know, a year and a half ago Zacian came out and were like, this is the most broken card we've ever seen, which is funny.

Brent:

So give us the story about your a in real life, uh, testing.

Brit:

Oh, yeah. So this, this past weekend, I, um, I'm in a wedding with some friends and there was our, it was the bachelor party for this wedding. And so they was with sort of all the people I started playing Pokemon with. Um, they all stopped around 2011 or so. Um, and they'd play here and there. But the, when, when I was first starting, we like traveled to everything together. And when we would do these, like, like our own sort of rules with like drafts and things like that, or like trying to have like starter deck tournaments or what we would do sometimes as well as like you could buy a starter back deck and you could buy a 10 and then you'd make a deck out of the two. Um, and so what we ended up doing, and this was the first I've never done a pre-release since, um, since the, they have the little trainer kids for them now. And so what we ended up doing was a hybrid pre-release last draft of battle styles. So we all, we had everyone had. The little tool, the pre-release kit. And then, um, and then we did, uh, this, the usual pass draft for that. And it was just, it was just a really good, um, fun time getting I'm hoping, I think maybe one of them is interested in playing again. So I had just like, you know, I was trying to explain, he was talking all about, Inteleon trying to explain the cards to them and things like that. Um, as well as like giving them my PTCGO login and it's being like, I'm a step behind, I'll get caught up, but you're welcome. You're welcome to mess around if you ever feel like playing. Um, but it was just, it was just kind of like a lot of nostalgia. Like I said, these are the people I started playing the game with initially. And it was just like a really good wholesome time, I guess, to not, not your average, not your average bachelor party either. There was A lot of, uh, there was not much partying and I, I got to go to bed at my usual time and things like that. So like-minded people in those respects as well.

Brent:

wholesome bachelor party. Take it to the bank. Yeah. The pre-release things that they do now look like those pretty at are nice. Like I get how they're trying to make it. So it's not like, you know, one edX And 59 energies. Yeah.

Brit:

Yeah. And I even, even still, I think with the even opening cards, I still think that's too much of a problem having played it. Like after we had played that little tournament itself, I just, like, my first thought was just like, we showed up to said like, no V Pokemon. I just. ended up winning. I had a pretty good draft. I had a really good deck that I drafted. Um, but I, I should've lost to someone with a terrible deck, uh, that they, they just had one Necros movie. And if, if they, if they, if that was the only thing they chose to attach to you, they would have swept me. But they, they just, they didn't think to, um, and it, it was just like, I don't know, it feels bad. And women, like that's, that's, um, something I've learned as like a game design slang. And so it's just like, it's just not, it's just not fun. I don't think it's fun for you or your opponents or this, like play that. And even with the cats, think it's still a little too easy, you know, obviously RNG dependent, but I think there are, there are certain, there are certain ones that are good enough just to be played on their own and just like any, like I had, I had like a, I drafted a fighting deck. I had, like, I had like 4, 4, 2 can Kelder and like, 3 3, 1, um, colossal, um, and like a Kriketune V and that was my deck. And just like, it wouldn't matter, like, as some of the, some of the BS, like I played against a flat bull V deck, um, that one is like not good enough to oppress the limited format, but like a lot of them are still, um, like someone even someone's managed to, um, have a one-on-one rapid strike. And like, I think if they like built their deck better, they like probably should have one too. Like, I don't know how you can beat that, especially too, because the trainer kids have, uh, the rapid strike energy. So, and especially in everything's like evolution. So like, all you gotta do is do one 50 once and then just like manually power up your Snipes. And you're probably take four prizes.

Brent:

Right, right.

Brit:

But it was fun. I got, I'm glad I got, I, I have a better sense of the, like the kits and I, I do think they are, they're really, well-designed like, at least in terms of like, so like in these, there is a lot of the, they come with like the Dan supporter or like a lot of them do, which is just, it makes you play rock paper scissors, which is like useless for, you know, competitive play of course, but like in a limited format where like supporters are good and, and you don't have very many of them. So it was a lot of fun. Like this is like, you know, it just adds these, it gives, uh, like more usages for these like not competitive parts, but they just have more space to be good and these alternative format. So I just, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed the Guinness ickiness of Dan in a limited format.

Brent:

Nice. I, yeah, I think playing Dan, eh, casuals seems like a super good thing to do right. More.

Brit:

kind of funny too, because before, before we had, before we started playing, we, I started talking about, I think, I think we've talked about it on the podcast before, but just about the dependent, like random stat facts about rock, paper scissors. And I explained because these are the two facts. I know, I don't really know much more than this, but like that guys, males throw a rock like first, like 60% of the time. And then the other thing I know is that when you're in the, I think it's called avalanching maybe it's snowballing, but when you, when you're locked in to just like both of you doing the same thing over and over and over and over again, you're not supposed to break, I guess. Um, would, I would be curious really to read like a well-written the explaining the logic there. But I, I said that. And then in the very first one, I did, I, both things happen. They, my opponent, I just, I went straight to paper and I won. And then the end game too, we went in the, the, into the, the lock situation and I didn't break. And I also won. So it was just really funny, like minutes after saying that it just, it just happened. So, which I guess I've wanted to, I heard this quote not too long ago. And I, I wanted, I had it on my mind for the, like the kayak episode, but I haven't had a good opportunity to fit it in, but maybe, maybe this will be, I think it has some import to what we talk about in the podcast. But the quote is that, um, statistics never lie, but liars use statistics and that's just, that's, that's like, it's something I've thought about. I think it's, it's, it's a good thing to keep in mind. I think

Mike:

that's pretty good.

Brit:

Not much.

Mike:

The, uh, So Brit you didn't play when team Galactic's wager was in the format, right. Or like, did you like just start playing then?

Brit:

It was legal. I came in like, after it was really big and the guardian delayed years.

Mike:

Yeah.

Brit:

but it was around like people would still play it in guardian aid here and there. Um, but I just judged came out, I think at the same time. And you just chose to play the hat or you could play lookers as well, but yeah, I remember there's that, there's that famous. It's Jason versus one of the seconds I think.

Mike:

Moss ma well, oh no, no, no, no. Yeah. You're right. Jason verse, the second I'm thinking of mascaras, like Mo I was standing next to boss and Mazda's reaction to, it was like the funniest thing. Like, it's just like, it's like, oh my God.

Brit:

and you want to tell a story for the, those that are not familiar with the little video.

Mike:

I mean, it's pretty much just like, so team Galactic's wager was a very powerful card. It was both players shuffle their hand into their deck and you play rock paper scissors. The winner gets six cards. Loser loser gets three cards. So very good in combination with Gardevoir a second Glock attack, preventing abilities used her next turn. Um, and so at worlds that year, the year Jason won, um, he was playing again, Sammy or Yessi, and I forget which one, uh, and they, like, I think they tied probably like 10 or 12 times on this very important team. Galactic's wager. And a lot of people were watching it at the time. And this was like the last round of Swiss or maybe in top cut. I forget exactly. But it's just like, it was a huge moment and it was just, and like, we were all friends at the time. So like, it was even funny because of. 'cause like nobody cared like that, that we were having that reaction, but it was, uh, it was just, it was just a good time. So the video is probably still somewhere on YouTube.

Brent:

Love it love it. Uh, you could use rock paper, scissors to decide weakness. In fact, there you go. That's the circular reference that makes podcasts work people, uh, professional podcasting here.

Mike:

Let's declare victory. This was, uh, this is good.

Brent:

I am also ready to declare victory.

Brit:

Yeah, I think we got the best of you in a roundabout way. We both liked jolty on and we both talked down. Leafeon.

Mike:

Yeah.

Brent:

Absolutely. Guys, we'll be back next week with more entertainment guaranteed. We will not miss a another week. It will be amazing. And our outros, the John Paul's.